222

That is confusing...

After looking at it for a few days, I think the language in section 16 is purposefully intended for Option A. Handgun ammo requires FID + P2P, or Carry permit, or new FID. It is further stated as such in the SBA statement. The rifle ammunition language in section 15 used the old language. The 1st substitute used the old language. There is no reason for the 2nd substitute to use the new language, if they intended the meaning to reflect Option B FID-only okay. I think the rationale is that, per, Section 21 (f), if you get a P2P after the legislation passes, it's good until your FID expires, not for 90 days. So you can use that P2P to buy handgun ammo. But if legislation passes and you don't apply for a P2P, you won't be able to buy handgun ammo.

I am pretty confused too. Just glad there are folks working in this less confused than me.

I was only tracking gun bills. Did I miss some?

We will see what got amended with all the bills Hopefully they will post the amendments.

Moved back to 2nd reading and Amended S2485 Terrorist watchlist S2552 FID records abolish right of access S2723 Embedded Firearm ID S2178 50 cal ban S2467 Investments in firearm companies Passes Senate S2430 Study Commission on Violence Yea 22 Nay 10 S2468 car impoundment Yea 36 Nay 0 S2942 NICS records Yea 36 Nay 1 S2715 Media violence Yea 36 Nay 0 S2718 Report firearm info Yea 25 Nay 13 S2719 anti-trafficking Yea 36 Nay 0 S2720 180 day window Yea 26 Nay 10 S2724 School task force Yea 38 Nay 0 S2725 Air gun 3rd degree Yea 37 Nay 0

S2723 was moved back to 2nd reading for Amendments. Amendments was passed by 21 yea. It will be picked up for 3rd reading in subsequent meeting.

S2178 was moved back to 2nd reading for Amendment, Amendment passed 21 Yea. It will be picked up in subsequent meeting for 3rd reading and vote.

Looks like you are correct. I do not see S2721 on today's senate session agenda. Looks like Sweeney betrayed NJ's gun owners again.

Could you please cite your source?

Good catch. I can't help but read it the exact same way.... with the exact same assessment.

That's a fair question. In general, anyone who is already in-progress should not be impacted more than others. - If Attorney General elects to embed into driver's license - 25 months after effective date, the new embedded Driver's ID will start being issued - If Attorney General elects to have separate embedded photo id. - Superintendent will implement phase-in-program. Superintendent will set expire date. - Phase-in program will begin on 7th month after effective date and complete no later than 24th month. - Either way - 25 months after effective date, Attorney General will have a system for retailers to read the embedded info. - 25th to 61st months after effective date, superintendent will "test" the system. Unless if Superintendent determines system is seriously flawed - 73rd month after effective date, everyone without an embedded ID will not be able to buy a gun (or ammo).

Arranged to meet up early morning. He arrived ahead of time. Everything went smooth.

Arranged to meet-up. Transacted. Everything smooth.

That part is a little confusing. f. Granting of permit or identification card; fee; term; renewal; revocation. The application for the permit to purchase a handgun, or for a New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier embedded with such information, together with a fee of $2, or the application for the firearms purchaser identification card, or a firearms purchaser identifier embedded with such information, together with a fee of $5... shall be delivered or forwarded to the licensing authority who shall investigate the same and, unless good cause for the denial thereof appears, shall grant the permit or the identification card, or both, if application has been made therefor, within 30 days from the date of receipt of the application for residents of this State and within 45 days for nonresident applicants. - The language for 30 days is still unchanged... so it's still toothless. - Do I pay $2 for New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier embedded? Do I pay $5 for firearms purchaser identifier embedded? What i the difference? - Do I pay $5 + 48* $2 = $101, so I get the ID + 48 embedded P2Ps, and they mark 1 off everytime I buy a handgun, like my metrocard?

Firearm Safety Training: highlights an applicant shall not be issued his initial permit to purchase a handgun or his first firearms purchaser identification card unless the applicant presents evidence of successfully completing a firearms safety class An applicant who has successfully completed a firearms safety class... shall not be required to repeat that class or course as part of any application for any renewal of a firearms purchaser identifier, firearms purchaser identification card, or permit to purchase a handgun. Looks like current FID holders are exempt, and it's not a certificate you need to show every single time you renew. Rifle and Shotgun ammunition: ID required No person shall sell... receive.. rifle ammunition or shotgun ammunition unless the purchaser... possesses a valid firearms purchaser identification card, a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun, a valid permit to carry a handgun, a valid New Jersey hunting license, or a valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier card embedded... Real-Time Ammo Sales System On or before... tenth month following enactment, the superintendent shall develop a program for the electronic reporting by dealers, on a real-time basis, of all rifle and shotgun ammunition sales.... The reported information shall include the name, age, address, type of firearms identifier exhibited... the caliber and numerical amount of ammunition sold... , the date of the transaction, and such other information as the superintendent shall deem necessary... The superintendent shall establish an electronic data base containing all such reported information, which shall be available to all law enforcement officers on a real-time basis. Similiar section for handgun ammo. Great.. buy a 50-pack of 22lr, and the guy behind the counter has to start typing... What insanity. All Firearm Transfers (Handgun, Rifles, Shotguns) Done Through FFL Exceptions for immediate family, LEOs, collectors, temporary transfers. Immediate Family Definition “immediate family” means a spouse, domestic partner a..., partner in a civil union couple,..,, parent, stepparent, grandparent, aunt, uncle, sibling, stepsibling, child, stepchild, and grandchild, as related by blood or by law.

Buying Handgun ammo No person shall sell ... or receive... handgun ammunition unless the purchaser... is the holder... a valid firearms purchaser identification card [,] and a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun [,] ora valid permit to carry a handgun, or a valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier card embedded with information affirming that the person is qualified and eligible to purchase and receive a handgun... and first exhibits such card... to the seller... How would you parse this language? Option A (a valid firearms purchaser identification card [,] and a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun)[,] ora valid permit to carry a handgun, or a valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier card embedded with information affirming that the person is qualified and eligible to purchase and receive a handgun... Option B a valid firearms purchaser identification card [,] and (a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun)[,] or a valid permit to carry a handgun, or a valid New Jersey firearms purchaser identifier card embedded with information affirming that the person is qualified and eligible to purchase and receive a handgun... ) By mathematical rules, Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally (Parens, Exponents, Multi/Div, Add/Sub) By programming rules, generally Logical And (&&) applies before Logical Or (||), so Option A. But I think maybe they mean Option B.. Because otherwise everyone who wants to buy a handgun ammo must have a P2P, which is only good for 90 days at a time. And that New New Jersey Embedded ID card won't be available for another 6 years.

Senate Committee Substitute S2723, adopted May 9, is published on NJ State Legislature Website. I'm gonna go mount a scope, the come back and read it afterwards.

I sent an email to Stack and Sweeney about those comments too. And I told them the ladies were right: when they spend millions regulating legal guns, and not illegal guns, Sweeney really doesn't have any regulations for keeping hands out of bad guys.

Awesome pictures. I think targets where individual bullet holes touch to link a bigger hole are just the prettiest patterns. I have pictures but, using American Eagle, bullet holes are not touching at 100 yards. I'll wait for a day when the wind is a little calmer, to give the rifle a fair chance to prove itself, rather than be held back by my wind reading abilities. Then if I'll post something if it is pretty enough. I saw a 11VT chambered in 22-250 and was tempted. I might look to a 22-250 next, as I punch paper only.

"Open" is not a response in the sense of an actual message FFLs will receive. Actual messages FFL receives are "Proceed" "Denied" "Cancelled" and "Delayed", or some variation POC States uses. "Open" are non-canceled, non-final transactions. That is to say, all transactions, "Delayed" or otherwise, which are non-cancelled, non-final. Form 4473, page 2, question 21c. http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf 25.6 © (1) (iv) (A) "Proceed (B) "Delayed" © "Denied" http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.6

At first I was thinking the same thing. But then I heard the words that preceded the words I had initially caught. "We need a bill that is going to Confiscate, Confiscate, Confiscate." "They want to keep the guns out of the hands of the bad guys, but they don't have any regulations to do it. "They don't care about the bad guys. All they want to do is to have their little guns and do whatever they want with them. That's the line they've developed. Yeah Yeah." If anything, I appreciate the honesty of the words. Intent: Confiscate, Confiscate, Confiscate. It's true: the legislation is going to spend million, and all the regulation, it's not about keeping guns out of the hands of the bad guys.

I'll buy that. But Part 25.6 also says: POCs shall transmit electronic NICS transaction determination messages to the FBI for the following transactions: - open transactions that are not resolved before the end of the operational day on which the check is requested; - denied transactions; - transactions reported to the NICS as open and later changed to proceed; - and denied transactions that have been overturned. The FBI shall provide POCs with an electronic capability to transmit this information. These electronic messages shall be provided to the NICS immediately upon communicating the POC determination to the FFL. For transactions where a determination has not been communicated to the FFL, the electronic messages shall be communicated no later than the end of the operational day on which the check was initiated. With the exception of permit checks, newly created POC NICS transactions that are not followed by a determination message (deny or open) before the end of the operational day on which they were initiated will be assumed to have resulted in a proceed notification to the FFL. You can sue on grounds of: - Violation that "open transactions that are not resolved before the end of the operational day on which the check is requested" - Or violation of " For transactions where a determination has not been communicated to the FFL, the electronic messages shall be communicated no later than the end of the operational day on which the check was initiated." But suing based upon the interface between NJ NICS and FBI NICS presumes: - A gun buyer or an FFL is aware of the messaging interface and timestamping of messages between NJ NICS and FBI NICS - A gun buyer or an FFL has standing to claim damages based upon a violation in the interface between NJ NICS and FBI NICS Where 25.6 uses the terms "open" "delayed" "proceed" and "denied", 25.2 defines the terms. You already cited definition for Delayed, and its 3-day rule. Here is the "open" definition and its 3 day rule. http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.2 Open means those non-canceled transactions where the FFL has not been notified of the final determination. In cases of “open” responses, the NICS continues researching potentially prohibiting records regarding the transferee and, if definitive information is obtained, communicates to the FFL the final determination that the check resulted in a proceed or a deny. An “open” response does not prohibit an FFL from transferring a firearm after three business days have elapsed since the FFL provided to the system the identifying information about the prospective transferee. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-firearms-licensees/a-nics-delay “Open” means those non-canceled transactions where the FFL has not been notified of the final determination. In cases of “open” responses, the NICS continues researching potentially prohibiting records regarding the transferee and, if definitive information is obtained, communicates to the FFL the final determination that the check resulted in a proceed or a deny. An “open” response does not prohibit an FFL from transferring a firearm after three business days have elapsed since the FFL provided to the system the identifying information about the prospective transferee.

The words I caught were: "They don't care about the bad guys. All they want to do is to have their little guns and do whatever they want with them. That's the line they have developed. Yeah..." And that's from listening to the original recording of May 9 meeting. It is 01:52:35 to 01:53:05. Then someone turned off the mic. http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/media/archive_audio2.asp?KEY=SBA&SESSION=2012

Exactly. It's a point to watch out for, but nothing is for certain. According to http://www.njleg.state.nj.us, the status of S2723 is reported from Senate Committee. 4/25/2013 Introduced in the Senate, Referred to Senate Law and Public Safety Committee 5/9/2013 Reported from Senate Committee as a Substitute, 2nd Reading But the bill text is as-of 4/25. There was a first substitution bill, and the one passed today was the second substitution bill. Even the committee members did not have the bill text when they passed it today.