222

Under current legislation it is 1 of those documents. Based upon recording that may be changing. If it wasn't changing I wonder why they pointed it out.

On the recording, at about 58 minute mark, she says Requires a person to have a FID AND P2P or permit to carry Or new ID To purchase handgun ammo. We will know better with bill text release.

Just as a general legislative follow-up, listening to the Budget and Appropriations meeting today, and really happy with the efforts of NJ2AS and ANJRPC. NJ2AS pointed out that S2467 would not just prohibit investments in manufacturers, but also importers and sellers like the Cabelas and the Walmarts. Since that represents a bigger impact upon investment fund discretion, the bill was amended to strike out words importer and seller. Not so much a win, as much as a good faith effort to align legislative intent with legislative bill text. ANJRPC pointed out that S2468 would impound vehicle for simple weapons possessions charge, which given NJ's laws commonly ensnares law abiding citizens. Bill was amended to clarify that vehicle impounding only applies if illegal weapon possession was coupled with separate crime of 1st to 4th degree. ANJRPC also pointed out the lack of 'adjudicated' language in S2492, the NICS records submission bill. Request to amendment to add language was denied.

From the budget meeting today, there is a new substitute bill as of today, which the budge committee reported to general Senate. Some key differences mentioned by audio: - New Firearm ID will have digital photo. - Attorney General and Superintendent will decide whether the new Firearm ID will be on Driver's license or be separate card. - Requires Superintendent to setup system for dealers to record Internet sales of ammo. - Requires person to apply for duplicate ID if they move. - Mandate 7 day handgun waiting period applies to new ID system - Require State Police to access Civil Commitment system during background check. - Requires minimum 3.5 years prison term for unlawful possession of machine gun? Assault gun, certain handguns, rifles and shotguns. - Requires Firearm Id and handgun permit, or carry permit, or new card to buy handgun ammo. I guess we will see if we ever see the actual bill text. - If you need a handgun permit to buy handgun ammo, then you are just going to have to drive out of state to buy handgun ammo. Or you will have to get the new ID as soon as it is available, so the system will get 1 million requests in the first few months, not phased in over 4 years. - If they setup a new system for dealers to record Internet Ammo sales, does that mean only dealers in NJ need to comply? Or does it mean they have effectively prevented all of us from buying ammo online, because out of state dealers won't bother complying with NJ rules. Also at the end Chairman Sarlo said none of these bills will have huge fiscal impact. Haha.

I sincerely apologize, to everyone I offended and to the moderators. My comment was offensive and I am sorry.

S2723 is suppose to be picked up by Budget Committee on Thursday 5/9. But as-of midnight, it is still not yet referred to Budget Committee. It also has not had its fiscal estimate. That's what I am interested in seeing. - DMV has to build a whole new system within the next 6 years. - Superintendent has to test that system. - Municipalities currently handle handgun permit and FID applications with 1-2 detectives, and NJSP gets involved too. After bill, they'll need to support current volume + 250,000 renewals per year. Fiscal estimate should run into millions.

Real upfront and friendly.

Much appreciated. Good luck on the job interview. I get the feeling that "NJ-compliant" ARs may get harder to find. Any state that has the 2-characteristic AWB now is at-risk for 1-characteristic AWB.

Please cite 1 piece of official instruction, from State or Federal authorities to 1 FFL, that says the 3 day count starts after the delayed response, and not after the FFL has submitted to the system. Because using that 1 piece of official instruction, we have 2 basis for lawsuit: 1 - The instruction is contrary to federal law and federal regulations. 2 - The delay is tortious interference of contractual relationship. Until then, it is just FFL discretion.

Please cite your source. Because we've already cited federal law, federal regulation, and FBI's own website that says that is untrue.

Go ahead. Reason it out. Follow your own line of logic. You are the FFL, make out the civil lawsuit. First: who do you sue? Second: on what grounds? Lets say you sue FBI on grounds of tortious interference of contractual relationship. At best, judge rules government has rational basis to do background check, 3 days is not overly burdensome, and since the law gives FFL discretion to transact after 3 days, there is no tortious interference. You are out a couple of thousand dollars in filing and lawyer fees. At worse, judge rules 3 days limit is not applicable, authorities can take as long as they like. That is what happened to NJ's 30 days for FID. So not only are you out a few thousand bucks, you just royally screwed over 100 million gun owners. Be careful what you wish for.

There's only a few dozen of them, compared to a million of us. What can they do that we can't do? Call NJSP and NJ NICS? Watch this video Talk to Sweeney, Norcross and Greenstein? You can watch the video of all hundreds of people who showed up on Apr 30 and May 2, a dozen or so speakers said exactly that: NICS is suppose to be INSTANT. http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/media/archive_audio2.asp?KEY=SLP&SESSION=2012 T-M Amendment Page 29, line 17 to page 30 line 6. 922 (b) (3) currently states http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922 (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver - (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States) So you are allowed to buy a long gun out-of-state, but not a handgun. After T-M Amendment: (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver - (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the licensee's place of business is located or temporarily located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any firearm to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located or temporarily located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in the State in which the transfer is conducted and the State of residence of the transferee (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States)

You seem to perceive a divergence of interests. I am not sure that is accurate. How much business has NJ FFLs already lost in long gun sales because people would rather buy out of state? If Toomey-Manchin Amendment passes and we can buy handguns out of state, do you think NJ FFLs will sell another handgun again? Who will wait 2 months for a permit and another 3 weeks for NICS checks, when they can buy their Glock in Maryland or Pennsylvania? If you think gun dealers don't care I think you are exactly wrong. They care a hell of alot more. This is their business, their livelihood, how they pay their employees and feed their families. You face an expired permit: they face losing their business. There is a few dozen FFL gun dealers, and a million gun owners. They do a heck of alot more than just run their shops. Look at who runs the gun ranges, for private citizens and for LEOs. Look at who is on the boards of your local gun club. Running a business isn't a 9 to 5 40 hours a week, and they do stuff on top. This is their life: of course they care.

I did not mean private parties in the sense of federal firearms licensee versus 'private party' non-licensee. I meant private parties in sense of contractual law, whereby terms of delivery of goods, services and tender of payments can be customized if mutually agreed. Nothing about a firearms transaction demands you pay for the firearm upfront. The only thing you need to pay for upfront is the NICS check. Once that is approved, the firearms transaction can happen. If you don't like your FFL's policy, talk to them about it (nicely), or transact elsewhere.

I didn't pay for my last firearm until I completed the transaction by taking delivery. As with anything else, if you are willing to pay up front, that is between private parties.

No response is covered. No response is an "open" transaction. It is non-cancelled and non-final. 'Delayed' becomes 'open'. Nowhere in definition of 'Open' does not owe its definition to 'delayed' The two definitions are explicitly cited on FBI's own website on the subject. The reference guide you cited is a subset. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-firearms-licensees/a-nics-delay

Dup.

USC 922 (t) - " 3 business days has elapsed since the licensee contacted the system..." CFR " three business days have elapsed since the FFL provided to the system..." There is no provision for FBI to EVER respond, with pending, rejected, etc... NICS does not have a statutory duty to ever respond. The 3 days is the intended process cure for lack of duty to respond. If after 3 days NICS determine applicant should not have the firearm, and FFL transferred, the case is referred to ATF for retrieval of firearm. When FBI and NJ designated NJ as POC state, the "system" is NJ NICS. There is no provision for 'licensee' or 'FFL' to track the intricacies between state and federal system, or timestamping messages in between. Interface between NJ and FBI is responsibility for NJ and FBI. FFL deals with designated 'system'.

Actual citation. www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.2 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) has many parts. It takes the laws from USC and writes rules for parts of the Federal Government. Title 28 Chapter 1 refers to Department of Justice. If you sue the government, you sue them for not following their own rules. Constitution, Federal statutes, administrative codes, etc... NJ has no laws regarding NICS. NJ operates NJ NICS under federal rules as POC state. By federal preemption, NJ would be precluded from writing rules that explicitly differ from federal rules.

USC 922(t) CFR Title 28 chapter 1 Part 25 subpart A 25.2 Delayed means initial response given to FFL is in open status. Open status are non-cancelled transactions without final determination. Open transactions does not prohibit FFL transfer after 3 business days had lapsed since the FFL provided to the system information on prospective transferee. Contrary to information otherwise, law says 3 days start from when FFL provided the information. Law does not say 3 days does not start from initial response of pending. FFLs have discretion after 3 days.

The parts deform with every shot. Basically every shot you are wondering if the next shot will turn the 'gun' into 'pipebomb.' If I understand correctly. 22lr uses under 2 grains of powder. 32acp uses about 3 grains. 9mm uses about 5-6 grains. So how will the polymer holds up depends upon the powder. No way will polymer hold 23 grains used in a 223.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/05/meet-the-liberator-test-firing-the-worlds-first-fully-3d-printed-gun/

Weinberg is definitely one of those true believers. On Thursday she basically said she was actively trying to dump on all NJ gun owners because NRA cut CDC research funding 20 years ago. At that point I knew she is basically nuts. NJ politics as payback for what happened nationally 2 decades ago? Nevermind Kellerman's complicity putting out crap science. But she's got a 20 year old stick up her butt and we are her whipping post.

S2721 was reported out of committee. But if you appreciate S2721, I would say drop Senator Jeff Van Drew a note of appreciation. Not all Democrats are all bad. As I understand, all the bills reported out of committee will be reviewed by Budget committee, probably for cost-estimates. Then all the bills will be presented to general Senate as 1 packages, and will pass. Then representatives between Senate and Assembly will reconcile differences. Don't know if S2721 will survive that process.

I hear what you are saying, and I understand why you are saying it. And you are right about PR and spin and effectiveness of communication, sculpting the message and all that. But at a very basic, fundamental level, big picture, I think you may be off base. "the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for redress of grievances." Don't focus so much on 2nd Amendment so much, you forget about the 1st. We may have overlapping interests, but me going up to talk doesn't represent you, any more than you represent me. When Scott or Frank goes up to talk, them represents me. And for that I give them some latitude to best represent the common interests, and I think they did very well. "Redress of grievances" every bit as important as "keep and bear arms." It is "I'm upset, and I'm gonna tell you why", not preconditioned on scripted, sculpted, spinned message.