ymg200

Pretty much any pistol that has the mag outside of the grip won't pass the 50oz rule. If it looks cool, it's ain't for NJ.

https://extarusa.com/ep9.htm According to the manufacturer's website, it has the weight of 3.85lb without a brace, which is 61.6oz. See the #4 below. Sorry to be a spoiler. A semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least TWO of the following: (1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer; (3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned; (4) Manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and/or (5) A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm

Thank you all for the input. The reason I asked is that I want to teach my kid shooting and I want to do it in a legal way. My kid is 7, but Cherry Ridge range only allows 10 and up. What are my other options?

I know, it sounds stupid, but hey, we live in NJ. I know that an air gun (.177) is considered a FIREarm in this state. I don't know where they pulled the FIRE from, but it's better to be safe than sorry. My house is in the residential area. Are there any laws against discharging an air gun in my basement? Thank you all. Have fun and stay safe!

If anybody is going there from Bergen county and would like to carpool, pls drop me a PM.

I have receive the following from NJ2AS: The 10-Round Magazine Limit Bill is now scheduled to be heard before the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee on: If you are able to attend in person, you are encouraged to do so. Location: The State House Annex, West State Street, Trenton, Committee Room 12, 4th floor (subject to change)

ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE HEARING RESCHEDULED TO MARCH 13 Mag Ban / Gun Ban and Reasonable Deviations "Fix" To be Heard Next Week The March 3 hearing of the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee that was cancelled due to winter storm Titan has been rescheduled for Thursday, March 13 at 2:00 p.m. Please plan to attend and testify in person if you are able. The hearing is scheduled to take place in the State House Annex, 125 West State Street, Trenton, New Jersey 08608. The committee room has not yet been announced.

ASSEMBLY COMMITTEE HEARING RESCHEDULED TO MARCH 13 Mag Ban / Gun Ban and Reasonable Deviations "Fix" To be Heard Next Week The March 3 hearing of the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee that was cancelled due to winter storm Titan has been rescheduled for Thursday, March 13 at 2:00 p.m. Please plan to attend and testify in person if you are able. The hearing is scheduled to take place in the State House Annex, 125 West State Street, Trenton, New Jersey 08608. The committee room has not yet been announced.

Just received from ANJRPC: MONDAY HEARING TO BE RESCHEDULED! We have received word that the March 3 meeting of the Assembly Law & Public Safety Committee is being rescheduled as a result of winter storm Titan. We will issue an alert with details of the rescheduled meeting as soon as we have them. Please spread the word. In the meanwhile, please continue to contact members of the Committee and urge them to oppose A2006 (gun ban/ magazine ban), and to amend A2777 (transportation of firearms) to make a one-word amendment to restore judicial discretion on reasonable deviations in transport.

Is it true that the hearing is postponed because of the weather?

all guns in the list above can be split into two cateories: 1) much bigger than a TCP 2) cost twice as much as a TCP

No flames here. I've neither handled a 380, nor another Taurus semi- That's why I asked where I can find one to try. Taurus would not have been my first choice if there was another gun in this class that has a slide stop. Also, I hear a lot of praises about a trigger on TCP. I already have a 9mm (although not a compact one) , and thinking about a .380 for the purpose of diversity and inclusion since this seems to be the latest trend

Unlike other mouse guns in this price range, TCP has a slide stop on the last round. I've never owned or handled any mouse gun, but I like the slide stop feature.

I am hesitant to order online until I try how it sits in my hand. Does anybody know a store that has it in stock, or a range where I can rent it? I am located in Bergen county. Will be glad to find it anywhere in the Northern NJ, or nearest NY or CT. Thx!

Gun grabbers rely on uneducated public. Columbine shooter had thirteen 10-round magazines on him and he fired 96 times out of them. Virginia-tech shoiter also used multiple 10-round mags. All this info is publicly available, but the media is not interested in publicizing them. A 10-round magazine is as dangerous in hands of a criminal as a 15-round magazine. Gun haters just want to harass law abiding citizens, masquerading the abuse as a public safety measure.

I have posted this to AR15.com. Please post to as many gun forums as you can, Thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Make your voice heard, or lose your gun rights! I know this is long, but this is IMPORTANT. Please post this to other gun forums as well. If you do not live in NJ, read anyway. This WILL come to your state eventually..... Please join pro-Second Amendment rally in Trenton this Friday (February 8). As you might know, 43 new anti-gun legislations were proposed in NJ Legislature only within past few weeks. NY has recently fell to anti-gun zealots because the public did not have a chance to protest. Do not let the same happen in NJ. We need as many people as possible to show public outrage against ridiculous and anti-Constitutional laws. If someone is charged with drunk driving, they do not propose confiscating his neighbor's car. Neither they blame AAA when a drugged up driver slams into a crowd. Why such unfairness is acceptable towards law-abiding gun owners?! Whether you are a hunter, sportsman, or recreational shooter, you will feel pain of those proposed 43 legislations. Legislations like mandatory in-home inspection (A3676) and a required list of all household members (A3688) are outright assault on your civil rights. They are treating law-abiding gun owners worse than registered sex-offenders! Gun grabbing zealots won't stop until they ban the last gun from the legal ownership. Criminals, of course, are excluded from gun control as they don't honor laws in the first place. Remember that all gun control laws are directed at those who abide laws. Make sure that your voice is herd. In Trenton February 8. For information about the rally go to: http://www.nj2as.com http://www.nj2as.com/EVENTS?eventId=605978&EventViewMode=EventDetails Also, IMPORTANT - NJ has established NJ-SAFE commission (similar to the one in NY). Public hearings are scheduled to discuss how to deal with gun violence in NJ. New Jersey already has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country. Gun owners should not be burdened with more laws that simply punish law-abiding citizens for the criminal acts of violent and insane criminals. Please attend these public hearings and help defend our constitutional rights in the Garden State. There will be an opportunity for public comment on these issues, limited to three minutes per person. If you cannot attend one of the meetings, please e-mail your comments to [email protected]. Info on public hearings: http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2013/2/new-jersey-governor-christie-announces-public-meetings-for-the-nj-safe-task-force.aspx "First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me." Martin Niemöller (1892-1984)

David, <quote> If the handgun (rifle, shotgun) has any two of the listed criteria, it is "materially identical" to any of the weapons banned by name </quote> It does not say ANY, it says NAMED. It says Identical " to a named assault weapon". The word Weapon is in the singular form, not plural, so you have to name a weapon from the list. This is according to the letter of the law. I've heard reports of PLR-16 seen in NJ gun shops, and I believe that owners just read the law as is. If you say that this law is being applied differently from the way that it was written, do you know of any precedent that this has happened? Regards, ymg200

Regarding pistol evil features in NJ, See NJ AWB here: http://www.state.nj....title13ch54.pdf Below are exact words that preced the list of pistol evil features (50 oz, threaded barrel, etc). Capitalization in mine. "A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a NAMED assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:" It clearly says "identical to a NAMED weapon". If it is not named, the whole "substantially identical" clause is irrelevant, along with the list of evil features the purpose of which is to identify whether the weapon is "substantially identical". Based on this, PLR-16 pistol should be legal in NJ. Same applies to VZ-61 pistol. Draco pistol, however, has AK action (which IS named in the AW list), so it can be argued that it is "substantially identical" because of the weight and barrel shroud. I know that this is an old topic, but I want to have clarity about PLR-16 in NJ. Any arguments are appreciated.

So, coming back to the original question, CA has clear definition of "detachable" (which I posted above), while NJ does not. I'll try my luck geting answers from NJ SP. They were previously helpful clarifying "substantially idential" - back when the clarification wasn't widely published.

vjf915, I am not following your logic. How does insert a mag using a tool make it worse? Could you explain. Thank you.

Still in hopes of getting my hands on a little Draco.... Here is the explanation given by The California Department of Justice, which made BB-type mag release latches legal: ------------------------------------------------------------------- The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1: (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. source: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter39.pdf http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Non_detachable_magazines ------------------------------------------------------------------- In other words, in CA law (or The California Department of Justice guideline that effectively became the law), the key word detachable is replaced by "that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required". There is also an explanation why the guideline issued by The California Department of Justice is as good as a law. According to a previous court ruling: "[R]egulations adopted by an agency to which the Legislature has confided the power to 'make law,' and which, if authorized by the enabling legislation, bind this and other courts as firmly as statutes themselves . . . ." Thus, the definition of "detachable magazine" in the CCR is as binding as the Penal Code itself. Unfortunately, we do not have such a guideline here in NJ. However, I also came across BATF guideline. I cannot comment on authenticity of BATF letter, but if this is true, then BB should be legal in NJ: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383250 <quote>The Firearms Technology Branch has historically followed the commonly-accepted definition of a “detachable” magazine as being one that can be removed without a tool.</quote> This BATF letter makes a good point, especially for NJ: Note that NJ AWB has "SKS with detachable magazine" in the banned list. Now, unless the definition of detachable includes "requiring a tool", any SKS has detachable magazine, and there are plenty of them in private hands in NJ. Is that BATF letter binding for NJ? It's a federal agency, so I would assume it is. I am looking for an official letter, not just an internet post....

robot_hell, I agree about losing a bayo lug. But when it comes to Draco pistol, it has all evil features that are listed in AWB with exception of a threaded barrel. There is no chance that it can lose weight to go under required 50 oz. I was wondering if that mag release trick makes it legal in NJ. <quote> B. a semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a *detachable* magazine and has at least 2 of the following: 1) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; 2) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer; 3) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned; 4) manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and 5) a semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; </quote>

Hi all, The are restrictions of what firearms we can have in NJ based on whether the firearm has a detachable magazine. Most of AW law is based on *detachable* mag - whether it is a rifle, pistol, or shotgun (see below). It looks to me that if the mag is made non-detachable, then no Evil features apply to a gun. So the following becomes legal: collapsible stock on AK variant with a pistol grip, more than 5rd mag for Saiga shotgun, Draco pistol (which is AK-based), and many more. Is there anybody in this forum who can comment on the legal aspect of my suggestion? In PRK (Peoples Republik of Kalifornia) they have even stricter restrictions on detach mags, so people who were pushed over the edge by draconian laws came up with devices that make the a mag non-detachable. They say if it requires a tool to remove a mag, then the mag is NOT detachable. It came down to modifying a mag release latch so that it can be pressed with a tool, but not a finger. Here are few designs: Battett with non-detach mag: AK with non-detach mag: http://www.riflegear.com/t-howto-raddlock-ak.aspx AK with non-detach mag: http://www.solartactical.com/SOLAR-TACTICAL-GEN-2-AK-MAGAZINE-LOCK-124.htm http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm 1. a semi-auto rifle that has the ability to accept a *detachable* magazine and has at least 2 of the following: - a folding or telescoping stock; - a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; - a bayonet mount; - a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and - a grenade launcher; 2. a semi-auto shotgun that has at least 2 of the following: - a folding or telescoping stock; - a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; - a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and - an ability to accept a *detachable* magazine 3. a semi-auto pistol with *detachable* mag is an AW in NJ if it has at least 2 of the following: - an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; - a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer; - a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned; - manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and - a semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm;