lionelfan

One reason to consider .22 over .177 is that the pellets are easier to pick-up, handle & load, especially if you are considering a single shot air rifle. Pyramid Air is an excellent online resource for investigation/purchase of your air rifle. After much research I purchased a PCP (Pre-Charged Pneumatic) rifle that uses a 10 round magazine in addition to single shot. PCP air rifles have a cylinder that holds compressed air (or CO2 if they use cartridges) and can fire multiple rounds on a single charge. They will be more expensive than pump type air guns. If you want to have maximum fun plinking, I recommend you check-out PCP air rifles. More shooting, less work pumping and with a magazine, less time loading.

I also have several boxes of the thunder'crap's. If you just want to plink for the fun of pulling the trigger, hearing the "pop" and hitting "large" targets, I can recommend either the S&W M&P 22 or the Colt 1911-22. Both of these semi-autos are made by Walther and share similar internal designs. Magazines hold 10 or 12 rounds and I have had no FTFs or FTEs with either gun using the thunder'crap's. Both semi-autos are easy to field strip & clean, which you will need to do because the thunder'crap's leave lots of residue. The M&P has ambi controls, which appeals to me because I'm a lefty. The Colt 1911-22 is all metal and has the same size and feel as a standard 1911. Both can be purchased for under $400. The fun factor is high as well as the value proposition.

As I mentioned, despite the difficulties, it's still an enjoyable gun to shoot if you like to shoot 1911s. I looked at the Sig/GSG version of the 1911-22 and much preferred the Colt because of its greater similarity to the 1911, especially for field stripping. Mine is an early version, so it's possible that Colt/Walther may have made revisions. I did complain to Umarex at the time and even sent the gun back to them to see if they could do anything to make the rear sight blade more rigid. No luck. I have not tried to find an alternate spring for the sight - jus stretched it a little bit which increased the tension and helped somewhat. Depending on the ammo I am using, I adjust the rear sight for more accurate groupings, so usng epoxy is not an option for me. As for accuracy, keep in mind that there is also a fair amount of play between the slide and the frame. This gun doesn't have the manufacturing tolerences to consistently shoot tight groups. I'm not a marksman, but shooting off a wrist rest pad at 15 yards I can consistently hit within a 3" dot target. It's good enough to have fun with a shooting gallery that has 2.5" disks.

I have the Gold Cup version. Purchased it when it first came out. It's a fun gun to shoot and it mimics the full size 1911 right down to many of its internal parts, but don't expect much in the way of accuracy (see below). I have shot mostly CCI mini-mags with nary a failure to load, fire, extract or eject. I have replaced the rubber grip with a set of wood grips wih brass colt logos because I prefer wood grips - they fit perfectly There's a good reason why they give you the wraparound plastic grips like the 45ACP Colt Gold Cup. The black finish on the frame wears off exposing the underlying alloy metal at the edges, the trigger and exposed parts of the grip. Didn't like the trigger pull - it measured 6 lbs. When I contacted Umerex (they were the initial importer - now taken back by Colt), they indicated they could/would not do a trigger job to reduce the trigger weight. Since it uses the same sear, trigger & hammer springs as a full size 1911, I ordered a set of lighter springs from Brownell and am now enjoing a 4 lb trigger pull! I especially like that it field strips easily, similar to a 45ACP 1911, and that the slide locks back on the last round. My one issue with the gun is the rear sight. It doesn't hold a set well because the blade is wobbly. This significantly affects accuracy. You can see the wobble in this short You Tube video, ( ). I had to remove the windage spring and stretch it to increase the tension to keep the windage agjustment tight. I'd love to replace the rear sight, but I have yet to find one that fits without modification to the slide. I tried replacing the front sight with a fiber optic one (http://www.dawsonprecision.com/CategoryProductList.jsp?cat=SIGHTS+FRONT) made for the gun but ran into a problem, again with the rear sight. Couldn't lower the rear sight sufficiently to align the hit & aim points (hit point too high) with the Dawson sight. Another issue that I discovered after several hundred rounds through the gun is the barrel sleeve nut can loosen because of vibration. Be sure to check that the barrel nut is tight with the provided wrench. In spite of these difficulties, I still enjoy shooting the gun for general plinking at 15 yards with a resettable shooting gallery. If you want repeatable acuracy and consistent groupings you should consider a better quaity handgun - perhaps a conversion slide. I did purchase (rather expensive) a Bob Marvel 1911 Knighthawk 22LR 1911 on Gunbroker several months ago that is my go to pistol for accuracy shooting. It features a barrel that is integrated with the slide similar to the S& W Model 41. The Knighthawk shoots almost as accurately as my Model 41. As an FYI, the 1911 22LR Colt Gold Cup shares a lot of its design elements with the S&W M&P22, which is also made by Walther. I have the M&P22, as well, and I enjoy shooting that almost as much as the Colt Gold Cup.

I also have Butler Creek unit, but abandoned its use for a couple of reasons, 1) it would dent each casing as it loaded the cartridge, especially if the a jamming occured and 2) the loading was not reliable - one had to reverse turn the knob periodically to reset the unit and try to continue loading. Invariably one had to remove the errant cartridge to continue. In the end, it was more trouble than it was worth and I gave up on it. I would love to find a unit that works reliably and doesn't damage the projectile or casing.

Have the same rifle. Really like the octogonal barrel. I mounted a 4X Nikon rimfire scope and really enjoy target shooting with this rifle at 50 yards! Also occasionally shoot it out to 100 yards off a rest with good results.

I will second what others are saying about the Mark II. I have a Savage Mark II BTVS heavy target barrel in stainless with thumbhole stock as well as a Cooper 57M classic. Both are 22LR left handed models. The Cooper was about 4 times the cost of the Mark II BTV. In terms of my holding skills both shoot about the same at 100 yards. I can consistently hit 1.5" groups using CCI mini-mags off a tripod. I have the same scope mounted on both rifles. The BTV is one handsome looking rilfe with its wood laminate thumbhole stock. It features Savage's accutrigger which enables you to adjust the trigger pull, (but it's a pain-in-the ass to do). It's at the higher cost end of the Mark II line, but offers good value and the best bang for the buck at that price point, in my experience.

"Easy to Load" is a relative call as you need to indicate what it is in relationship to! If you mean a double action revolver with swing open cylinder, the answer is definitely not easier. But there are all kinds of qualifiers. The biggest pain for me is having to extract each spent round individually through the loading gate. This gets more cumbersome as you shoot more because of the build up in gunpowder residue in each camber. Same for loading the new rounds in each chamber as you have to push harder on each round to insert it. 6 rounds are easier to load because the chambers are not as close together. An alternative is to have multiple cylinders that you pop in & pop out, fairly easy to do with a Ruger Single Six. You still have to deal with extracting the spent rounds. I have a Ruger New Single Six in stainless steel , 6.5" barrel and adjustable sights. I target shoot with it and prefer the longer barrel for improved sight radius. I changed out the hammer and trigger springs for lighter versions which significantly improved handling and operation. Also replaced the wooden grips, which I felt were a lttle too wide for my hand, with slimmer "ivory" versions from Hogue. I prefer to shoot WMR rounds rather than 22LR because the rounds are longer, easier to hold and insert. Of course, you pay dearly for this privilege because WMRs are significantly more expensive. The nice thing about a SA 22 revolver is that it takes time to load/shoot a lot of ammo! Givn the current tight availability and inflated cost of 22LR this is not necessarily a bad thing! As much as I like to shoot my Single six and S&W 617, they are a pain-in-the ass handguns to clean, especially the cylinder face and the forcing cone areas of the breech. I prefer stainless finishes because I don't have to worry about the possibility of rust in humid locations. I also find that lead-away patches do the best job of removing the gunfire residue and with a blued finish, you have to be careful about removing the bluing if you clean too aggressively.

I had seen one at Shore Shot several months ago. I was specifically interested in the target model (20 in barrel - Hogue free floating forend) which is listed as non-NJ compliant because of its folding, telescoping buttstock. I found one new on Gunbroker. It was shipped to my FFL and I worked with him to make it NJ compliant without making any external (appearance) changes. It amounted to internally pinning the stock and disabling the hinge release. We tried to get some info on the procedure to do this from Sig customer service, but they were not helpful nor willing to provide any assistance. I have a written description of the procedure if anyone is interested.

Yes - I definitely plan to scope the rifle. Can you please tell me more why I should be looking at bolt action rifles? I"m a lefty and I find working the bolt action with my right hand to be awkward. My budget at this point is in the $750 range, but I would entertain spending more if there is a better choice that meets my intended use.

Thanks for the input. One of the reasons for considering the Browning is that I am a lefty and I like the idea of ejecting the spent shells out the bottom. For this purchase, I am interested in acquiring a semi-automatic rifle. My budget for this rifle & scope is in the $750 range. I looked at a site that featured Henry rifles, but Henry does not appear to make a semi-auto 22.

I'm considering getting a 22LR rifle for target shooting at 100 yards. Been looking at the rifles that Ruger, Remington, Marlin and Browning have to offer. Does anyone shoot the Browning Semi Auto 22 Grade I rifle? What can you tell me about its accuracy and reliability? It is supposedly a classical design. The attributes that appeal to me are that it can be taken down for easy of storage and transport and it is bottom ejecting. I also plan to put a scope on it.

I have the Umarex 1911-22 Colt Gold Cup Trophy Model. I had posted my experience with the pistol and the basis for my selection under the topic, "Colt 22LR 1911 Gold Cup Trophy – Observations & Experience" on 2/4/12 in this forum. I have since pumped over a 1K rounds through this pistol with no failures to load, fire, extract or eject. I have been using CCI MiniMag and Remington Gold Bullets, exclusively. My preference is for the CCI as it seems to burn much cleaner than the Gold Bullets. The black finish is holding up very well. My only criticism is with the trigger weight. According to the review on the 1911 forum, trigger weight should settle in at about 4 to 4.5 lbs. Mine is around 6 to 6.5 lbs. It has never really lowered since I purchased the pistol. Perhaps I still need to pump more rounds through it. I recently emailed Umarex customer service to find out if 6.5 lbs is within factory tolerences. The answer came back yes and BTW, they do not have the equipment to do trigger jobs. I recently puchased a Colt 45ACP 1911 Gold Cup (100 year anniversary model). Except for the weight (33 oz for the 22 vs 39 oz for the 45ACP)and recoil spring force, the two guns handle almost identically. THe 45ACP, however, has a 4.5 lb trigger pull! I don't know if this high trigger weight is typical for the Umarex Colt 1911s or just mine. A trigger job for this pistol is looming in the future, as i want it to have a closer match to my 45ACP 1911. First, I have to locate a skilled gunsmith who would take on the project.

Well - I looked at the SR22 and the various reviews. Thought this would be a nice example of a modern day 22 pistol to add to my small pistol collection. After holding it, I decided that it was just too small for my liiking and I opted for a S&W M&P22. One of these days I Will find a Ruger that is comfortable in my hand, but so far it's not been the case. I seem to enjoy holding the S&Ws more.......

In case anyone is interested in what the gun looks like with its replacement checkered wooden grips and Colt factory emblems, here are links to a couple of pics..... http://www.flickr.com/photos/zidecar/6820250453/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/zidecar/6820250329/in/photostream

Finally received my purchase permit from Middletown Township and picked up my Colt 1911 22LR Gold Cup. I had purchased the pistol at a gun show in the Philly area back in Dec. The gun was hard to find and I was fortunate to locate one at this particular show. Prior to purchasing, I had done some investigation regarding 1911 pistols chambered for 22 LR. I wanted one to familiarizing myself with 1911 operation so I could comfortably and confidently handle a standard 45ACP version that I would be acquiring in the future. The idea of using ammo that costs 6 cents vs 40 cents per cartridge was also quite inviting. After much research, I decided to go the route of separate pistols for 22 and 45 calibers. My interest lies in target shooting and I believe it will be easier to sight in separate pistols than dealing with a single pistol and a conversion barrel/slide. Also, I prefer a pistol where the slide will lock back after the last shell has fired. None of the 22 conversion kits that I investigated could support that operation and the consensus is that it can be hit or miss as to whether you get a kit that works well with your 45ACP 1911. In looking at the reviews of the GSG/Sig 1911 22LR, early build issues, poor quality finish, a lighter weight than a standard 45ACP 1911 and lack of an adjustable rear sight, led me to look at the Colt Gold Cup trophy imported by Umarex. The Colt Gold Cup is made by Walther of Germany and carries a licensed Colt logo. This is similar to the arrangement that Walther has with Smith & Western for the manufacture of the M&P22. The Gold Cup model is nicely balanced weighing in at 37 oz with an empty magazine. This is about 2 oz lighter than the S&W 1911E, which is the 1911 45 ACP that I plan to get. The Gold Cup’s slide is aluminum alloy while its other internal components are steel. There is no information as to what type of steel alloy, but the instructions indicate that all surfaces should be oiled. One external component that I noticed was also aluminum is the beaver tail grip safety. The finish on all parts is eggshell black. I don’t know if this finish is powder coated, painted or anodized. It will take longer term handling to see how durable it is. Since this is a ~ $400 handgun, I would expect some quality compromises in its manufacture. One of these compromises was noticeable immediately. The slide appears to have a very slight lateral play, perhaps ~1/64” when sitting on the frame. Since the sights are mounted on the slide, this play could impact shooting accuracy. The lateral play was most noticeable with the magazine removed. With the magazine in place lateral deflection was significantly reduced but not completely eliminated. There are two safeties, typical of a 1911 style pistol. The thumb safety locks the trigger, slide and hammer. For this safety to be engaged, the hammer must be in a cocked position. This is the standard safety position for a 1911, i.e., cartridge in the chamber, hammer cocked and thumb safety engaged. While this state is identical for any semi-automatic weapon, my experience is limited to the S&W model 41, which uses an internal hammer. One never sees the state of the hammer on internal hammer pistols. (The internal hammer is typically always in the ready state since it is not recommended to dry fire a 22 pistol). There is something unsettling about seeing a cocked hammer on the pistol. Your eye immediately looks to check that that the thumb safety is engaged if you are not shooting the pistol. This is not a bad thing! There is one big difference in safety checking a 1911 relative to an internal hammer semi-automatic. You have to always disengage the thumb safety to open the slide. There is a half penis position for the hammer. This is a vestige of the standard 1911 configuration and relates to its original design as a cavalry pistol, i.e., to prevent accidental firing when thumb cocking the hammer. For my shooting, I don’t expect to be thumb cocking the pistol. One needs to move the slide to load the first round in the chamber and this action cocks the hammer. Why would one want to then un-penis the hammer? I presume there are some shooters who prefer to un-penis the hammer as a safety setting rather than relying on the thumb safety. The second safety is the grip safety which locks only the trigger. You must have the web of your palm firmly placed against the grip safety for the trigger to release. I expected this to be more of a problem than it actually was. A firmly grasp was sufficient to always disengage the grip safety. Another instance of a quality compromise for me was the trigger feel. The trigger force seemed high for a single action pistol and the action felt a little ruff or scratchy compared to my S&W 41, but that is probably not a fair comparison. I expect that the required force and feel will improve with age and use. While the black composite grip complements the look of the pistol, I was disappointed with the width of the grip and the feel of the checkering, especially along the front of the grip, where the checkering is unique to the Gold Cup model. I decided to replace the one piece wraparound grips with a pair of wider, full checkered wood grips featuring original Colt logos. I purchased these grips on eBay for about $35 a pair. They feel much better in my hand and add some character to the appearance of the pistol. The wood grips are a perfect fit, attesting to the swapability of this part with 45ACP based 1911s. The only adjustment I had to make was to slightly enlarge the mounting holes to accept the screws the Walthers used in mounting the composite grips. The owner manual recommends use of either standard or high velocity ammo. I have a supply of CCI Standard Velocity and Minimag 22LR, as these are my preferred ammo for use in my other 22 pistols. I fired over a 300 rounds of the Minimags in my first outing and had no failures to load, fire, extract or eject. The recoil was a little more than I experience with my S&W 41 and 617, but that is to be expected given both of those pistols have more mass, weighing in at ~ 41 oz. The rear sight was set to the correct elevation; however, the windage was not, as the pistol initially was shooting significantly to the right. I don’t believe any effort was made at the factory to roughly sight in the pistol. After several rounds in which I had to slowly adjust the rear sight, the pistol was shooting quite accurate at 15 yards – I didn’t get a chance to shoot at 25 yards as that range was in heavy use at the time. A close examination of the front sight following the shooting session revealed it to be mounted about .25 in to the left of the barrel’s centerline. This is the reason the rear sight was so far off. I will be returning the front sight to a centerline position (easy to do as it is held in place by a set screw within its dovetail mount) and realigning the rear sight to eliminate the possibility of centerline parallax. A pleasant surprise that I had not seen referenced before is that the pistol came with a simplified magazine loader. It’s a plastic jig that fits over the top of the magazine and helps to push down the mag button during loading to relieve stress on your thumb or forefinger. Extra magazines are available. I purchased two of them (holds 12 rounds) through the Gunbrokers for about $25 each. The only unusual phenomenon that I encountered was a gunfire residue blowback pattern appearing at forward side area of each spent shell. I don’t know if this is unique to my pistol or a potential issue/warning sign of a more serious problem. I intend to try CCI Standard Velocity ammo to see if this makes a difference. Bottom line at this stage is that the pistol is meeting my expectations. It has allowed me to become familiar with the operation of a 1911 pistol and most importantly, it is proving to be a lot of fun to shoot when I want a change from S&W 41 and 617. As for long term durability, time will tell. It is not a good sign, however, that Umarex warrants the pistol against defects for only 1 year and there is no ownership registration program. For a more detailed description of the Government version with the same internals as the Gold Cup model check out the following review that was posted to the 1911 forum, http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=86

I will be picking up my Colt 1911 22LR Gold Cup on Monday (1/24) as my purchase permit is finally available for pick up - nearly 7 weeks after I had submitted the request! I'll report on it later. Appreciate the early feedback regarding the Ruger SR22 - I am thinking of getting one. Did anyone try it with the larger grip and the mag extension that comes with the pistol? I have a fairly large hand and like the idea that it comes with a bigger size grip. I was hoping tha the larger grip and mag extension would work for me...... As for which pistol to pick - First trim you list down to the one of two that feel the most comfortable in you hand, since holding it will be the thing you do most frquently. Next, consider the ease with which one can field strip and clean the pistol. That's probably the next most frquent thing you will be doing. If you can't decide based on grip comfort, then decide base on stripping & cleaning.

Ken, Perhaps we're moving off the real point - you will be spending more time shooting your 22 than field stripping it. The thing to do is try holding all of the 22 pistols that folks have mentioned in this thread. You can't really go wrong with any of them, unless you are a sharpshooter. All of them will more than likely shoot better than you will. I would look most closely at the ones that feel the best to you in your hand. After all, you will be spending a lot of time holding it so it's a good idea to get one that has the most comfortable grip for you!

Jaybirdtke, It may not be hard, but the Mark III is more complicated to field strip than an S&W 41. On the 41, you lock the slide back, pull the trigger guard down, lift off the barrel, pull the slide further back about 1/2", lift it up & off the frame and you are done! The recoil spring and guide bar come free from the frame. Reassembly is just as easy..........

Take a close look at the S&W 41 with 7" barrel. I am very content with mine. This is one well balanced target pistol that is easy to field strip (as opposed to the Rufer Mark II or III) and a joy to shoot. The ergonomics are excellent. The 41 is not cheap, but for the money it is one of the best shooting 22 target pistols that can be had. Another forum member has mentioned the S&W 617 revolver. I have the 4 in barrel version with an aftermarket Hogue wood grip and I like it a lot. Revolvers, however, are inherrently dirtier than semi-autos and you will be cleaning the 617 more frequently than any semi-auto. If you are really into target shooting, I would recomend the 6" barrel. If you like the 1911 configuration, take a look at the Umerex Colt 1911 Gold Cup. This is a Colt licensed, 22 LR pistol that is manufactured by Walter in Germany. It's size, weight, features and feel are identical to a 45ACP 1911 and it has gotten very good reviews. I have one at my FFL as I wait for my purchase permit to come through. Once I've had a chance to put a few hundred rounds through it, I will post my experiences in the Rimfire forum.

I recently purchased a S&W 1911E. I originally wanted the S&W 1911 that comes with a rear target sight, but none were available from the various sources I tried. Instead, I opted for a 1911E that I found at Bud's Gun shop. While I'm waiting for my purchase permit to arrive, I've decided to change out the rear site on the 1911E for a target sight. A few emails and a call to S&W got me the info that S&W has a target sight that will work. One is on its way as I write this post. I'm looking for a gunsmith recommendation in the central Jersey area who does quality work to remove the factory sight and install the new one. I don't know if the width of the dovetail dimensions for the sights are the same at this stage, so some machining may be required. Anyone have some good recommendations?

If target shooting is what you are really interested in I would recommend the longer barrel. Your sight radius will be longer and more accurate plus the additional weight will make the handgun more stable. For starting out, go with the pistol that feels the best in your hand. Also, consider what is involved in field stripping each of the ones that you are considering. Some are much more difficult (Ruger Mark III, in particular) than others, as you will be periodically cleaning your handgun. If you really resonate with target shooting in 22LR and pursue it seriously, then the pistol you will eventaully want to get is the S&W Model 41.

I had been looking for the Gold Cup version for the last several weeks. I contacted Umarex and was told they were being made available to their distributors at the end of November. Found a few places on the internet that had them but the Gold Cup versionr were gone by the time I tried ot place an order. It seems the Gold Cup versions are being allocated to dealers. I had looked at the GSG/Sig versions of the 22LR 1911, read the reviews on various forums and viewEd the videos on YouTube. I read of problems with GSG while the reviews of the Umarex version all seem to be positive. I decided to go with the Umarex. I had resigned myself to having to wait till the Gold Cup supply caught up with demand. I was at the Philadelphia area gun show yesterday and was suprised to find a dealer there who had two Gold Cups for sale. I grabbed one of them and it's on its on its way to my FFL here in NJ. I won't be able to get it for several more weeks as I just started the purchase permit process here in MIddletown...... Once I get to shoot a 100 rounds or so through it, I will post my experiences.

I am looking into purchasing a Model 1911 chambered for 22LR. I know there are conversions kits that one can purchase to retrofit 1911-45s that enable one to shoot 22LR. I plan to target shoot with this 1911-22 and the feedback that I have read generally recommends against a conversion set up. Below is a list of 22LR chambered 1911s that I found are currently available on the market. If I have missed any, please feel free to add them to the discussion. They run the gamut in price. What I am looking for is one that offers the best "value". "Value" means different things to different shooters - Here is the list of characteristics that I use to describe value: shooting accuracy, quality of materials, ammunition independence, simple dissembly/reassembly, cleaning ease and tuning (sight, trigger travel & trigger force adjustments). I would like to hear from anyone who has used these 1911-22s and what they felt were their high points and low points relative to my value list. Puma M-1911-22 Browning 1911-22 A1 Sig Sauer 1911-22LR Chiappa 1911-22 ATI GSG M1911 HGA Colt 1911 Government Kimber 1911 Rimfire Target

Lots of factors enter into the pricing of a handgun (or any other product, for that matter). The initial design, cost of materials, manufacturing, assembly, testing, quality control, desired return on investment, advertising, demand and competition. It's much like the difference in price between a Chevrolet and a Cadillac or a Volkswagen and an Audi. Ultimately, it's up to the market place to determine if the product succeeds or fails at the price point being offered. The buyer gets to decide if the value justifies the price. I happen to have a S&W 617 and I think it is one of the best 22LR revolvers I have owned. That's my opinion and I have no regrets having spent $650+ to acquire it.