Ronky

Anyone on here have a spread of private land they'd allow like-minded individuals to shoot on? I'm wondering because I've got some steel I like to shoot and it's a pain driving it all the way out to PA. I'm located in Essex County. Back in college, we used to shoot on this old rancher's property ... We'd drop a case of beer off at his rear door, as a thank you. Just wondering if there's anyone like that in NJ. It'll probably be me and a buddy. We're pretty experienced ... More than happy to generate and sign a hold-harmless or other waiver if that would ease any concerns. Thanks!

I've enrolled in classes with both "civilian" instructors and those who've been down-range. While all were beneficial to a degree, I personally took away the most from some of the courses run by retired military folks. It's one thing when an instructor says "focus on your sights this way" ... It's another thing when he says "focus on your sights this way because, when you're getting shot at like I was in Somalia, you may experience combat tunnel vision, etc etc." Personally, I've found it very helpful when an instructor not only teaches the how but also the why ... then tells you how your body may react under stress and why you should now practice a modified how. Can't beat real-world experience.

Gotcha. Storage idea nixed. If anyone has an interest in shooting and drilling with these barricades, let me know. If you're willing to help put up and break down (pack up the boards when done), you're more than welcome to use. You'll definitely notice a positive change in your skill set.

Roger that. So, if I'm understanding what you're saying, to remain on-site an item must be a prop, designated as needed or desired by an existing discipline. And if so permitted, only the discipline may use that prop during an event. I guess the only other option is to let other interested parties know when I'd be down ... So they can help me unload the car!!

Forgot to mention the other part, training. Yeah, I feel that. Every class I've been to has me on a plane or involved in a car trip. There are two problems as I see it, the Jedi are in high demand as instructors. Just take a look at Kyle Lamb's training schedule for 2012. Basically, it's filled with contract military classes, LE events or closed courses. The other problem is our state. Rifles needing mods to teach in NJ ... think I'll pass. So anyway, I've had to travel quite a bit to enroll in some of this stuff. Oh ... while it's on my mind, Redback One (Jason Falla) will be out on Long Island this spring and summer. Jase is a great guy and runs a good class. I did it this past summer and it only took me a few hours to get out to the range on LI. Those interested should definitely check him out this year.

If I pay for and build it, you can use the **** out of it. My idea was sort of grounded in the whole idea of barter. If I'm permitted to "store" the barricades on-site, I'd expect to make them available to those who wish to use. Only seems fair. But yeah, it would boil down to the honor system at the end of the day. If used properly, these things will take some damage. The idea isn't to pansy around with the ports. The idea is to aggressively drive the weapon as if engaging a real threat. Sometimes, depending on the barrel comp being used, some of the ply may get "splashed" and fray a bit. Par for the course. All that said, it's best if people don't intentionally shoot at it however!!

Not yet a member. Looking for a location closer than Easton, PA. I got sold when I read 5.56 is good-to-go in the pits (not to mention, I have great steel from MGM that I picked up after this year's Shot Show). So, as I'm understanding it, the facility would be a nice fit for the type of practice I'm most interested in (I'm not a real bench-rest guy). My plan was to head down on the 12th of this month, shake some hands, and fill out an application. If you want, we could chat then??? Truthfully, I could always just pack these up when I was done for the day (as I've done at my "home" range). However, a) it's a pain in the a** putting them in and taking them out of the car, and b) if left for other members to enjoy, they'd definitely help push some folks to improve certain aspects of their present skill-set. As far as the risk is concerned, it's just plywood. While there is some "building" involved, it's not the end of the world for me to replace. And hey, I'd like to believe other shooters observe Scout's Honor!!

Forgot to mention ... The other nice benefit to this training evolution ... When timed / scored by a buddy ... It reinforces proper safety engagement and manipulation (something that I view as important at a "group" shooting facility). If you notice in the video, Dan engages his safety prior to moving from port to port, then disengages only when he's got a proper sight picture.

As a reference, please see ... ... ... ... ... ... if you are unfamiliar with the VTAC barricade. Most, if not all, of the classes I've attended (Telluric Group, Viking Tactics, Defoor and Redback One) use either the VTAC barricade or something quite similar in training drills. Once I've gotten my 2012 sea legs at Old Bridge, I'd like to use barricades during some practice sessions. Does anyone ever run these, or something similar there? Not sure what club policy is, but is there a way to store these on-site? I'd be more than happy to provide the material and labor to get a few built ... And maybe stash them somewhere for all to enjoy and practice with. These really are a great training aid. For those in the know, is this even possible? Thanks, Ronky

I guess I've got to keep my eye on the first Sunday of Jan 2012. Wait, that's the 1st I think. When will OB be doing the new member session, considering the holiday?

I've gotta get my azz in gear and join OB or something. That'll allow a lot of this peer review work to take place and I can meet some other tac-inclined folks (without having to drive out-of-state). This is COMPLETELY based on what I've read on here ... But it sounds like the pits are the deal at OB. Setup up as you like as long as you are sure to clean when done. If that's truly the case, that's perfect. Clearly can't blast away there at night, but it's a start. Has anyone there built VTAC barricades? If not, someone in the know should see if some could be kept on-site there for use. VTAC barricades are really a great training aid.

If you were able to throw something together over the border (NY state), I'd be down like Chinatown. I had a class this summer where we ran indoor, all blacked out (zero ambient light). Everyone there had at least a single tube (NOD) and most ran IR (quite a few PEQ-15s). It was pretty cool. Basically, that's kinda what I'm looking to duplicate. I had been doing a lot of thinking and it always bothered me that most "practice" shooting we're involved in bears little relevance to the likely circumstances in which we'd have to use our weapons defensively. Admittedly, there are practical shooting matches and the like, and I think that's a huge start. My area of interest has always been gun and military tech, and that's where night shooting comes in. If I'm going to, more likely than not, have to use my rifle after hours, then that's what I want my training to focus on. So I'm def interested in speaking more about this facility. How far over the boarder is it?

I had to travel for my class but it was great. Even if NJ turns out to be a no-go, there are options not too far away (PA for instance). They do night shoots, as I understand it. With the right questions asked, it can happen. As for home state training, are there any groups, within particular ranges, that have tactical shoot "meet ups"? I don't mean competitions or anything like that. I'm thinking much more casual. Regular monthly or so meets to discuss and shoot new drills and practice ... Things of that nature.

I don't know about NJ-specific LE training, if any. I'd have to run it by Don or Kyle. Much of their focus is on SWAT and other entry teams in low and no-light scenarios (hence their affiliation with TNVC). I'm sure they could provide me with some references from the various LE agencies they've worked with. Don't know if you're interested in MIL units as well. I do know they do a lot of work with professional door-kickers. Glad you like the photo. I'm a fan of yours. It continues to creep me out every time I see that pic. Gacy was a FREAK!!

Exactly. And in all honesty, venue is much more of a concern than anything. Not only will it determine if it's a go or not, but it also will determine the limits and concepts that can be gone over. Speaking of which, any forum members have a 5.56-rated shoot house on 10 acres, where we can mock-up and run aerial and vehicle assaults ... or run hostage rescue scenarios in the shoot house (with flash bangs, night vision and IR lasers)? Just kidding.

Bio for Kyle: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kyle-harth/15/5b5/844

See: http://tacdogs.com/tacconf/instructors.htm There's a bio there for Don Edwards

You know what man ... I think you just jarred my memory! You got me thinking ... (Nothing to do with the present discussion but) I'm almost positive I provided my NJ FPID to VTAC a few years ago for a course. So yeah, your thinking is spot on. They do conduct bkrd and prints for the FPID. I almost forgot how much of a joy that process was. But yeah, that makes sense ...

That's the beauty of choice. If ease is of the highest priority to you, you may want to stick with NRA-type certified instructors ... And that's totally cool. Again, I was just trying to gauge interest. Definitely not tying to pitch you either way. I don't have a horse in the race. Just thought it would be novel to have that level of cadre actually come to NJ, as opposed to having to travel to them.

Check out my other response. Unless you have a buddy in the Department (like a really close buddy who doesn't care about getting fired), you can't turn to your local PD for crim checks. For the private citizen, this is all handled by the State Police. This is all an academic debate however. As I mentioned, the requirements would likely result from the type of instruction offered. I'm not saying you'll need a letter. Whatever could be reasonably taught in NJ, in all likelihood, wouldn't require a crazy list of pre-reqs. My guess is you'd have to show proof of prior course work, for safety purposes. I attended a class this summer that had no vetting process (another outfit). It was basically pay and attend. I **** you not, I was flagged at least three (3) times in two days. Not to mention, the weapons retention skills I saw from some of the other students literally made me wonder who was going to take the first round. Not all rules are bad rules. Maybe you'll change your mind when you experience your first accidental discharge, at the hands of the newbie standing next to you. Believe me, it's nice knowing those in attendance have run their guns before.

I don't think it's possible to obtain a letter from a local PD. I believe any local PD would refer you to the State Police (Identification & Information Technology Section / State Bureau of Identification (SBI)). They handle "private party" requests. The turnaround time is about a few weeks, at least that's what it was when they processed my papers. I hear ya about the pain it is having to jump through hoops having to take a class. After asking similar questions, it was explained to me there are different rules applicable to SOCOM members (via the State Department), as compared to, let's say, your basic infantry veteran. The Operators themselves don't make the rules. It's much more of a State Department matter.

If you think about it, it would be sorta comical to consider teaching a class in a state that, essentially never, hands out CCW permits ... Only to then make a valid CCW permit a class requirement. That said, rest assured it won't be an issue.

I can assure you no CCW will be required. In NJ that would translate to zero student enrollment (of course I'm exaggerating but I'm not far off). Depending on the course provided, at most it would be a LE letter, confirming no criminal history. But again, that would depend on the subject matter.

Consider the breakfast cereal yellowed! I believe they're aware of our "protective measures." After all, our restrictive gun laws makes us one of the safest and most desirable places to live in the country! If this even gets off the ground, I'm sure we'll have a session and go over all such details. I'm trying to rack my brain right now and remember the specifics (exemptions) listed in 2C. I have to give the statute another read. Pretty sure there are some LE/MIL exemptions from some of the regs. But yeah, can't see these guys running down to the 'smith to have their comps welded on. Sheesh. And I wonder why I'm always having to jump on a plane and fly elsewhere for classes.

Please see my post. I provided a link to the company's web site. Great group of guys. Let me know if you have any further questions. Cheers.