mark_anthony_78

"1) What is a fair membership fee per year for an exclusive private range?" At a minimum, you need to add up all of your projected annual costs (maintenance, equipment, insurance, taxes, etc.) and divide that by how many members you want to allow. With limited membership, that may end up having to be very expensive per member just for you to break even. That isn't to say it's not worth it, as there are plenty of folks who pay several hundred $$ a year for larger, less exclusive clubs, and insane hourly rates for indoor ranges.

It was discussed here too: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/foghorn/ny-times-finally-admits-assault-weapons-myth/ In short, don't get your hopes up. It's a tactic change to start going after the people (more aggressive push for Universal Background Checks) instead of the hardware. Sure, the NYT admits banning rifles won't do anything or can't be done... but UBC's can ban YOU from owning anything (so why pick and choose certain firearm categories when you can just be denied across the board).

+1 to this as well. My dad "lost" a few sentimental guns that were in the family due to some cousins that probably just sold them for beer money.

I bought an LC9 earlier this year, and while the trigger sucks for "bullseye" practice, I doubt it would be an issue in a close quarters self defense situation. That being said, I am always interested in adding to the collection (I have a lot of Rugers) so the striker fired version may join the gun cabinet someday.

Then you're also screwed with lead round nose and soft points as well.

I stopped by but there was nothing on the benches.

It's funny how states/districts have no problem passing anti-gun legislation in record time (SAFE Act anyone)? But it takes FOREVER to draft something even remotely "pro" gun when they are forced to by the courts.

Ah, whatever. Just hope that if you are ever involved in a DGU it's determined to be justifiable, because if it's not, each and every hollow point in your magazine is an *additional* 18 months in the clink. 270 months is a long time for a full magazine of HP's, let alone all the spare mags you have laying around. Something that could potentially be avoided just by purchasing a different brand of ammo... Considering the HP charges were the only ones that stuck for Aitken should tell you how the court feels about them.

How are you going to "use" something without being in "possession" of it? NJ makes "possession" of firearms and hollow points illegal in ALL circumstances (therefore making their use ALSO illegal) EXCEPT in the defined exemptions. Seriously, this is not hard logic. Read the words in the law, not what you "think" they should say or what we "wish" the meaning should be. You can legally "possess" hollow points in your home, that's it. Whether you get charged or not is a different matter. Not everyone who speeds gets a ticket, but the state is capable of doing so if they wish.

Jeez, it's right in the law. 2C:39-1(f) Possession is illegal, except for 2C:39-6 exemptions. 2C:39-6 exemptions says nothing about use in self defense. The state police clarifiction addresses hunting (use) and target practice (use) and locations for possession. This is the problem with making EVERYTHING illegal, except for narrow exemptions. We all perhaps know the "intent" of the law, but as written the "actual" law does not "allow" it. I will have to browse through Evan Nappen's book at my club, because I think even he says something similar (i.e. don't risk it) and he IS a lawyer. NOW we're just going around in circles. Use HP's if you want, I wish it was clear that we could. Just saying if you shoot a bad guy it's entirely possible that it will be added on as another charge, and you are all just banking on anti-gun NJ courts to determine how justifiable the homicide was in order to clear your name. How much you want to bet hollow points would be a major issue in a NJ civil trial too? (Look everyone, he HAD to be negligent in my client's death, he was using ammunition that is severely restricted in this state...) Why voluntarily give them that opportunity? If ball ammo was the only other option, I'd risk it too, but I can mitigate that risk a tiny bit by just buying the next box over on the gun store's shelf.

What was the point of your link, Old School? It didn't refute anything I said. Nobody is arguing the fact that you are allowed to simply possess hollow points at the exempted locations, even if that possession is in the chamber of a firearm. Discharging them is not exempted except for target practice at authorized ranges.

I'll post it: f. Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S. 2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means: (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than .025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and © is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color. There's nothing in there about "during the commission of a crime". If you possess them, it's illegal, except for the narrow exemptions. The ONLY mention of self defense in the 2C:39-6 exemptions is for pepper spray. Even if you are cleared of a homicide charge, there is nothing legally preventing them from pursuing discharge of the hollow points as a crime. I'm not supporting it. I think it's a dumb law. I'm just saying don't be surprised to have the book thrown at you if you ever have ANY firearm related arrests/issues.

I agree that ball ammo sucks for self defense. That's why I use this:

Seriously, do I need to google "NJ hollow point illegal possession" for you and post the numerous links that pop up, not the least of which is the high profile Brian Aitken case, the high profile Shanneen Allen case, the link posted earlier in this thread, and a whole bunch of others that Google manages to find with no problem? Why give the prosecutor an add-on charge on a silver plate when there are (likely) legal and just as effective options?

You can all you want, but the fact remains plenty of people can be, and have been, charged with possession of hollow points in otherwise benign situations that wouldn't be crimes anywhere else in the country. Yes, I do have hollow points at home, but they are not what I have loaded in the firearms because I remember that I live in NJ which will not hesitate to charge me with any/every firearm law on the books should I be unfortunate enough to actually have to use one for self defense.

"You are twisting definitions to turn a SD shooting into some type of crime. Justifiable homicide, as a SD shooting, is not a crime. Ergo, why would you be charged with a hollow point charge?" In any other state I wouldn't worry about it... the victim is treated like a criminal in New Jersey. Use of hollow points in ANY crime is an add-on charge. Even if the shooting was justifiable, you did discharge a weapon inside town limits, maybe you brandished the gun against another unarmed assailant, and heaven forbid one of your pinned mags can squeeze in a 16th round or you haven't gotten around to filing off a bayonet lug from a project gun in the closet. Look at the link a few posts above, they are throwing the book at that guy. Maybe his lawyer will get those charges dropped, maybe he won't. "If it bothers you so much just don't use hollow points at all." I use Critical Defense. Maybe not a 100% solution, but it's a step in the right direction.

"Ah, good point. Legal unless used in a crime." Goes back to my point way above... shooting an intruder is still technically a crime. NJ will try to pin the hollow point possession on you too.

Would they? I don't know. Could they? Legally, yes. I think in NJ they are going to go over ALL of your firearms with a fine tooth comb to look for anything potentially illegal.

Would this actually surprise you in NJ? A self defense shooting it technically a crime (homicide) but it may have a legal justification under laws for use of deadly force. The use of hollow points during a crime (homicide) is also *by itself* another crime, but there are no line item exemptions above/beyond those specifically listed for purchase, transfer, and possession. So, I honestly wouldn't put it past a NJ prosecutor to still go after a hollow point charge, even if the shooting itself was deemed justifiable.

So exemption (2) above talks about "keeping" the ammo at home. Doesn't mention "using" the ammo... food for thought there... I just load up with Hornady Critical Defense instead, which is (unofficially at least) not considered hollow point.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/08/robert-farago/patriot-promotions-statement-on-child-abuse-claims-against-sons-of-guns-will-hayden/ Looks like it may be an angry ex-girlfriend/wife filing false claims.

For plinking at the range I've used 115, 124, and 147. I've bought all weights just depending on the price at various times and what I grab on my way out the door. If you have a self defense round that you like it's probably best to stick to the same weight during practice so that your point of aim is the same. Also, some guns are just picky about certain ammo. You'll also find endless arguments about what weight is the best (light/fast 115's vs slower/heavier 147's). Actually 124 is probably the best middle ground.

Also not a bad price, but it's 115gr instead of 124gr (if that makes a difference to some people...)

Because $$$$$$$$$$$ Bloomberg's $50M is being used to pay these people to lobby across the nation. Not that lobbying is a bad thing (heck the NRA does it) but at least the NRA is doing it on behalf of, and financed by, millions of individual paying members as opposed to a tiny number of rich dudes with control fetishes.

Don't be surprised if the NICS system is down. I went to a shop last night to pick up an SR22... NICS is offline. Called again a few minutes ago, the shop still can't connect to the system.