5th4x4

15/50's would be heaven for you guys ; ) Although I gotta say.... easier or not, 20 is NOT hard. But if you like 30's, then have at it. Everyone has their preference. But please, "easier" (30) vs "easy" (20) is what we're really talking about here. You guys are making it sound like you need forceps to remove a conventional size magazine. 30 is designed for quantity of rounds.... not for ease of push/pull. So with a 15 round limit..................

Do you actually find 20 rounds hard to push/pull? Our military does fine with them, so I don't understand the trouble that people have with 20 rounders.

I was referring to handling the mags themselves, not while shooting. Half-empty mags feel unbalanced (to me). But if you have good a feel for them, then have fun. I only stated that I don't see a function purpose for such a lopsided mag.

Btw, I just want to add re the pump action "AR".... I think it's interesting. It is what it is, and it's meant (at least partly) to act as a workaround for gun hating state laws. So for purpose I give it an A+ And for style I give it an A+ I don't see this as a "poser" AR, I just see it as a cool looking pump version knockoff of one of the most popular semi-autos on the planet. So it's a pump and not a semi-auto... and that's known upfront. Guns should be fun, so if someone wants it because it's cool, then so bit it. Have fun with it. As for the cool factor of 30 round mags... I feel the same way. If you think it's cool, then have fun with it. However I've seen the rigs that guys wear for these 30 rounders - and that's all well and good. But my opinion on the matter is not coming from a range or course perspective, but from a "carry all that crap around for miles and miles" perspective. And as anyone who has had to carry gear like that will tell you, the less cumbersome and shiftable something is, the better. But in the range and course world... have fun. I just see no real functional reasons for it. It's 15 rounds. Half empty. And I already curse that my 20 rounders are 5 rounds short.

I was issued nothing but 20 round mags in the Corps. And this idea of "function" for a 30 rounder sounds like silly-talk to me. You've got 15 rounds in the mag for crying out loud. So whatever "grab/swap" benefit anyone may think that they're getting from the extra length, the 30 rounder is more cumbersome and off balance than a 20 rounder. And even the 20 rounders feel off balanced to me at times (because they aren't fully loaded). 15 rounds is 15 rounds. So if 15 rounds fit into a 20 round mag, then where is the benefit of using a 30 round mag for 15 rounds? They are simply too cumbersome, and harder to carry (without special gear). I'm just not buying the "function" idea when it comes to a 15 round limit for mags. Maybe an argument can be made for 30 rounds in a 30 round mag, but even then it's cumbersome to carry and handle. Maybe as a first lock & load mag - with 20 rounders as your backups. (my opinion of course)

As Mark Twain put it... "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting it's shoes on" She only gets away with all of her lies because she's just so darn cute! (Yeah, that's not her. But you didn't seriously want to see a picture of Loretta, now did you?)

A recent edition of American Rifleman magazine fielded a question about the clip/magazine issue. http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/clips-vs-magazines They totally farked up the entire thing by reaching back into the 1500's (yes, the century!), to provide nomenclature history, as if any weapons system built prior to the advent of cartridges (rounds) would in any way clear up the debate. In the case of an AR platform (as in the video), it's round/clip/magazine. The round comes attached to the clip. The clip gets inserted into the magazine. The magazine gets inserted into the rifle. There is nothing "interchangeable" when it comes to that platform. And in reality, the clip is not even a required element in that setup. That said.... If any Marine had asked me to throw him a clip, I would have tossed him this.... ....and he would have expected to receive nothing other than that. So yes, that "clip" nonsense bugged me too. Especially in this case (with this particular weapons system) because the use of the term "clip" is simply wrong. Clip and magazine are NOT interchangeable (despite American Rifleman's blanket claim). And as for American Rifleman... that "answer" was a total FAIL and a disservice to it's readers (as far as I'm concerned). They had an opportunity to explain different weapons systems and how they are fed, but instead they spent a ridiculous amount of space to reach back into the 1500's, 1600's, etc to compare past use of terms with today's weapons systems. Apples/oranges. (btw, I suspect that I'm even more bugged by all of this than the OP is! )

Oh. Vote. I've also posted something. Look it up: "Can't expect that my vote will ever be represented in this state" (I VOTE!!!!!) I'm not pollyanna about this state, but if you are, then that's your business. But how does "VOTE" change the past, present or future? Has no one voted yet? Will they now suddenly vote? Why? And does that mean that the opposition will stop voting? I can appreciate your optimism, but it's too naive to be taken seriously. No offense. I'm only being realistic about the current situation.

Based on.................

Don't be fooled by the (limited) "conservative" influence of Bergen. I worked at a not-for-profit organization (aka: a very affluent hospital) and the philanthropic money flows towards liberal causes... because to do otherwise is an invitation to deal with the wrath of the left. Wealthy people in this area (meaning GROSSLY wealthy people) all hang out in the same circles, so no one wants to be considered a social pariah. That pressure results in BIG money donations to "the right" causes (which means LEFT causes). ALWAYS follow the money... and it RARELY follows individual political ideology. It follows social pressures that follow a "go along to get along" mentality. Yup.... I totally give up on this SH!T of a state. It's not my native state, and therefore I have no emotional attachment to it. I judge it strictly on how it "rules" it's citizens, and I look forward to the moment when I can flip it the bird - for the very last time - as I pay that last final toll on my way out of it. God Bless America (whatever is left of it) and F \/ C K New Jersey and the socialist government it has inflicted on it's inhabitants.

While that may be true, it does not explain Bergen County. And in Bergen County there is an obscene amount of money that supports every one of the state's "agendas" (which some might call "ills"). So if you want to talk about hard-core impact, you need to look no further than that. As the saying goes, "follow the money". I'll stick with what LorenzoS said, "I'm sorry that this state is lost, but it is".

DITTO Can't expect that my vote will ever be represented in this state, so it's time to vote with my feet.

I absolutely love GFH, but where did you hear that? Weekends may be busy (at every range), but I go to GFH during the day on weekdays, and I'm very often one of only very few shooters (and occasionally the only shooter) on site at times. Plus, "busy" is subjective, since that depends as much on the number of ports as it does on the demand for those ports. The answer to your question regarding why NJ is so politically weak when it comes to 2A could be answered by re-examining your hypothesis that NJ shooters are as prevalent as you claim. Otherwise why would elected officials defy such a robust number of citizens who are shooters. It defies logic.

The wood grain is gorgeous.... from both profiles. That's some serious hot wheels! Enjoy it.

Thanks for the details. But as I learned the last time that I looked into a Glock build, it appears that I would need to content myself with completely disassembling and then reassembling my existing G19 if I wanted to "build" my own Glock for a justifiably worthy cost. Maybe some day, but for now I don't want to mess with her.... because she shoots like a beautiful filthy angel ; ) So what are you gonna end up doing?

Interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome of your comparison. As I had mentioned, I would love to build my own Glock (as long as it's not overly price prohibitive compared to a new purchase), so this is going to be very interesting to see what you come up with. My original plan did not include cannibalizing a used Glock, so I'm curious to see if that's actually worth doing. (since I'm assuming that the used Glock is already functional?). Anyway, I find your approach quite intriguing.

Everyone needs to make the choices that they feel are in their own best interest.

Yeah.... too late for that already : / F'n NJ

I know : / I made sure to check that 10 round mags for the Glock Gen 4's were available (they are) so I've been kinda waiting for the hammer to fall before stocking up on them. But it might be smart to beat all of you other suckers to the punch before you suck up the entire inventory that's out there : P (that said.... bleh.... a 10 round mag. It's infuriating!)

I pretty much assumed that rimfire would take the biggest hit. Potentially BB guns as well. So it looks like they are going after the gateway guns first. BASTARDS!!!!!!

That would be great. I've got another permit that's burning a whole in my pocket, and since I'm not really a handgun guy, I'm really at a loss as to what to do with it. I've got my Glock 19 (which I love!) so I'd much rather burn it on a Glock build if the cost is at least somewhat justifiable. So I'd love to hear what you come up with.

I considered a "Glock build" as opposed to a Glock purchase, but after pricing about only half of the parts list, the cost was far too high to justify (in my mind) the satisfaction of a build. My AR build was highly satisfying (and highly expensive)... but it was also highly customized. That's not really the case with a custom Glock though, so you may be better off buying one, and then modifying any parts that you would prefer to customize afterwards. It may (emphasis on "may") actually be cheaper to do it that way. If you do build one.... very cool though. Has anyone else here built one from parts only?

I've "heard" that BB guns are affected (tube-fed), but is that true?? I have no idea. All I hear is speculation. I'd be pissed if they designated my stupid little BB gun to be illegal, but is that actually an affected "firearm" according to this bill? It seems that the assumptions outweigh the facts regarding this bill. But I'd love to know the facts.

As all NRA members already know, they have been emailing NJ members with alerts regarding S993. Their latest alert (similar to previous alerts regarding this bill) is: - - - - "Today, the Senate Law and Public Safety Committee passed Senate Bill 993 today on a party line 3 to 2 vote. As previously reported, S.993 seeks to restrict the maximum capacity of ammunition magazines from 15 to 10 rounds and ban certain popular firearms. Under the guise of public safety, anti-gun politicians continue their efforts to erode the Second Amendment rights of New Jersey residents. New Jersey is one of only a few states which already has a magazine restriction, and another arbitrary limit will have no impact on crime or criminals. Instead, this legislation demonstrably favors criminals who prefer to prey on unarmed victims". - - - - I've read the bill (with a layman's comprehension of deciphering lawyer-speak), and I've scoured the internet, but I can't seem to find which certain popular firearms will be banned by passage of this bill. I'm assuming (correctly?) that it would actually apply only to firearms with fixed magazines exceeding 10 rounds. So if so, what "popular" firearms would that entail? (and btw, when I say "only", it's not my intention to minimize the impact of banning any firearms. I use it here only for purposes of clarity) I'm all for firing-up the base, since this latest attack on the 2nd Amendment is an extremely serious affair. But is the "ban certain popular firearms" part of this message being used disingenuously? I say that because I've now been hearing rumors that AR's will be banned by this bill - although I haven't seen anything that would suggest that to be the case. But this is what happens when ambiguous information is spilled onto the street; people panic, they assume, they spread rumors.... and the facts are left in the dust. Obviously it suits the NRA's agenda for people to assume the worst (and I'm not judging them for doing so; one step leads to the next with this anti-2A crap, so thank God for the NRA's efforts), but I would like to be responsibly informed about this latest bill - especially since it contains issues of criminality for those affected by it. So.... can anyone responsibly detail which "popular firearms" would actually be affected by this bill?

Thanks!