SocietyHill

My bad for getting defensive ... Felt attacked ... That's all ... But I do see where the concern is and by no means are the warnings un-headed... In fact they were taken so much into consideration I went back to them again in person ... I was not referring to anyone in particular Im in the list of Vagina's too .. Trust me .. I've sat by ignorantly for the past 7 years and let it happen ... So Im referring to myself as well =D So again I appologize for coming off like an ass hat or ignorant, I assure you it was not my intent...

It has nothing to do with it .... I was calling you detective ... they were purchased at McClains WTF would I lie about that .. Seriosuly...

Listen guys I'm wasn't starting an argument here... You wanna keep sitting around with your fucking vaginas tucked between your legs by all means.. . Its bad enough people that have resided in this state even let it get this way.. IMO this is the NJ gun owners faults for not standing the fuck up long ago... See what I'm doing ? This is called taking a stand, weather I go to jail or not weather I end up dead or not... Its a stance... Its not sitting and bitching while the world turns waiting for people like me to fix it.. PS it was 2003 and yes it was a 3 day wait on the BG check in Broome MOTHER FUCKING COUNTY NY detective.. So to all those NJ Street Lawyers out their please just STFU... You are mis-information machines.. Don't worry the big boys will handle shit for you... Damn I thought Jersey had gladiators I was WAAAAY FUCKING WRONG.... I cannot wait to get out of this liberal vagina wearing state... They may as well paint it pink...

have since called them 2 more times to speak with different people.... Same Answers... Got tired of being paranoid once again... I took both of the lowers I completed in NY and drove to the barracks. Same Answers... Asked them a theoretical question to boot... Lets suppose I just made these 2 hrs ago in my garage , and I live 2 blocks away from here, what would happen with me walking in here with them? Nothing... We are well aware of the whole 80% Lower Builds and Kits... We have not prosecuted anyone thus far... In my own opinion I think if you are reasonable and dont go building an armory of like 50 or start trying to sell them than there wont be an issue. Im actually pretty comfortable with the whole thing now. Went to Cumberland Rifleman on Saturday and Sunday had no issues.. My brother who is law Enforcement (Patrolman) went with... We had a good conversation regarding said matter... I asked him what he would do if he stopped me and found the Rifles in the car... His reply was the only thing that would make me arrest anyone over it as being questionable would be if there were no numbers or markings on the receiver at all.. IE Blank... He said .. Not having a Firearms ID along with a Rifle with no numbers would set a red flag off in his head. Otherwise he wouldn't even second guess it .. he also admitted he would question me as to why I don't have a FPID and why I built my lower instead of just buying one but he said those are matters of opinion. Regardless guys there is nothing to stop a person from crossing state lines, going to a friends house and milling away... in that instance it is 100% legal ... So I think their stance is the fact that why would they arrest someone for something when all they have to say is they made it in PA or NY.... They would have A NIGHTMARE PROVING a person milled it in the state of NJ... I dont htink they would waste that much resource on 1 person with 1 or 2 rifles, it would exhaust way more resource in man hours for it to even be viable. And here is my stance... I wouldn't even call a lawyer to handle this in court knowing what I know now. Good luck brothers...

Wow that is VERY good info ... Thank you. And yes I agree, NY Laws are almost crazier than NJ now. And to be honest NY is WAAAAAAAY behind on technology in government making it a real pain in the arse to look-up laws. While I do admit I would love to move back to Upsate NY I must confess I cannot see the sense in moving to a state that is about to become more strict than NJ. If I am not mistaken NY is going to be implementing FID also. But I have been contemplating moving to PA. Ive always liked the way PA did business when it came to Firearms. What sucks is we go to all this trouble to register and be legal and the fact is that some scumbag robbing a bank at gunpoint could care less how many attachments hes got on his rifle or how many rds are in his mag, and Im sure they could give a shit less whether or not the guns were registered before committing such acts ... Just crazy.

Im actually gonna turn the GPS on on my phone and geo tag the picture so there is no question as well as video tape it .. I have a special box called the "If I get arrested give this to my attorney box" the tapes and pics will go in it lol

We are indeed on the same page =D. I was a little concerned about posting that though, I didnt wanna give anyone ideas lol. And I do have family both in PA and Upstate NY =D

Im happy with the conversation I had with State Police. This is not a matter of opinion on my end as I have had it clarified for me. Anything that I have posted that I was unsure about was stated so. I never claimed ignorance of the law in any form but if you believe you are following the law and can prove so it is not ignorance. PERIOD. No where did I say the State Police gave me any legal advice at any time. As he clearly stated to me it was applied more commercially. He answered questions pertaining to state law he did not advise me of anything he simply answered my questions and told me the law. To my knowledge if I shipped it to an Licensed FFL anywhere it would have to come back into the state and be received through state and federal bound book and recorded. I never asked him about that, just the way I've always believed it to work. Never really questioned it that much as it made sense. I do agree with you which is why after reading every law regarding Guns and possession / transport known I decided to call NJSP and turn in the rifle. I did ask what I could do with the 2nd Lower I had done here... As in where do I take it for destruction as it is illegal to deface a firearm. He told me all I had to do was cut it 3 places. And I am getting my FID, all this questioning came to me over the last 2 weeks after I started shopping for a new upper and seeing posts regarding all of the 80% stuff and whatnot. I got all panicked and started researching and went to the court house police departments etc lol.... I literally thought I was going to prison. Where I live they no longer Fingerprint at the local department. They send you to a MorphoTrack facitlity now. So I scheduled the appointment and filled out the application for my FID... it takes 3 months here so I wanted to make sure I was ok in the meantime with the rest of my Rifles. regardless I have to get it so I can take possession of my fathers collection if anything ever happens to him.. I actually made the appointment yesterday after I spoke to State Police.

Also regarding the Pink Card... It did not allow me to Purcahse Firearms but I was allowed to conduct business, receive in firearms, check serials, show guns etc... The owner of the place was adamant on the fact that I couldn't work there unless I was Pink Carded. But if am not mistaken and please dont quote me here as this is from memory, the Pink Card application is pretty much the same questions that are on the FID and Fed BG checks... Again please dont anyone flame me on that as im conceding that im not 100% sure =D

I can say this... My NY 80% / Completed / Milled reciever is 100% legal here in NJ as I brought it when I moved.

lol shoelaces ... Agree totally brother. And I am actually going to call my contact from the NJSP Fire Arms unit and see if I can in fact get it in writing .. He did tell me if I ever had any issues or had any more questions to call him or have the officer call him and he gave me his number and direct extension. We had only talked for the first time yesterday and we spoke for about an hour on the phone. But I do believe he was telling me 100% accurate information because he could recite firearms laws to me almost verbatim. But I think I'm gonna take the advice of a couple posts including yours and try and get it in writing. Im just not sure how to go about it ... Should I write a letter to them asking questions and have them answered on NJSP letterhead with a signature or contact the Attorney General or what ?

I did in fact call an attorney and was told the same information aside from the Manufacturing issue. The attorney said it was a grey area as well. He stated there is no case recorded in NJ where anyone has ever been tried and convicted of this to his knowledge. He also told me that it could in fact be used loosely if they really wanted to try and convict someone for this. But they would have to prove you were trying to sell it or mass produce it and that it was not for personal use. They would also have to prove you were going to commit a hanus act or crime with it. And they would also need to prove that you whole heartedly knew you were breaking a law or trying to avoid laws by doing it, so just like the grey area works for the state it can work for you too .... That is the only protion of all of this that makes it grey is that one word in the Firearms Laws that defines Manufacturers

I currently own 4 rifles in total. 2 of them were from 80% Lowers. I don't own any pistols. My 308 and 300 Win Mag I bought out of state in NY back in 2004 in NY at that time you could do Face to Face with no paperwork, so I bought my 308 from a guy I knew and I bought the Savage 300 win mag from a Gun Shop and had to go through the 3 day wait and background check. The other 2 are from 80% lowers that I milled, I lived in NY when I did one and in NJ when I did the 2nd but Ive never actually mated an upper to the 2nd one I made. The press surged while I was milling a hole for the selector pin and on top of that It was a project I was working on and screwed up by milling it before I sent it out to be etched because if I were to send it out to be etched I would need to find someone who etches that has an FFL and then I would need to have it shipped back to an FFL dealer and I would in turn have to have my FID to get it back.. Kinda stupid in my opinion. After trying to find a way to fix the selector hole and realizing it wasn't worth the risk of it malfunctioning I decided to cut up the receiver and start over. So when I do my 3rd I'm going to have it etched before I I Mill it then Im gonna Anodize and Dye it myself as I did with the first 2. Im having the 2nd amendment etched into the mag well on both sides and then praying hands with a cross and rosary. If you'd like the info on where I got my lowers and who does my etch work PM me I don't wanna post out in the open as I know there are kids that read these forums to so Id like to try and make it harder for kids for obvious reasons.

Wrong and Wrong Its legal for both. And yes you can absolutely finish it. Even the state police laughed at some of the stuff I told them people posted. And you can most certainly finish it, as I said the word Manufacturer is a grey term in teh law and is applied commercially. Actually i said 80% lower Milled / Completed which I realize is 100% complete at that point but since it pertained I placed it in the post. My Bottom line is this ... WHO AM I GONNA TRUST WHEN IT COMES TO LAW... A BUNCH OF PEOPLE ON TEH INTERNET WHO INTERPRET THINGS TO FIT THEIR AGENDA OR THE STATE POLICE FIREARMS DIVISION. Its local law enforcement that worries me. I have a lot of respect for State Police btw always have and this proves why. I got a solid concise and clear answer. And as I stated previously I was prepared to turn my guns and myself in. And quite honestly, I would never have called them at all if not for the fact of the mis information I was reading all over and it actually had me paranoid... Now a blank receiver milled with no numbers on it, I wouldn't test that out ,... At the very least have it etched with serial number of your choosing. I am in the process of registering mine through the ATF as we speak. So far its been pretty easy. and doesn't seem like it will be all that hard period. Ive actually shown this same reciever to a few state Police and ATF agents when I worked for the Law Enforcement Supply Store... Was never a problem.

Hello everyone... New to these forums here but in no way am I new to the hobby. I just wanted to post my findings. I called up the NJ State Police Firearms unit to ask some questions regarding kits etc... When I called I fully expected to have to go turn in my Rifle at the very least and thought they were going to ask me to turn myself in to the state police. If a person brings a rifle from another state are they required to have a Firearms ID. NO If a person brings a rifle from another state are they required to register the rifle. No IF a person takes said rifle to a shooting range are they required to have a Firearms ID. No Do I have to have a Firearms ID to transport said rifle to and from a Range ? No. Be sure you transport according to the law. At this point I then asked about my 80% milled receiver... I explained that I moved to NJ from NY back in 2005 and at the time it was legal to make your own Lower Receiver. I explained that I went through the entire legal process even going as far as to register the rifle as I had serialized it for Theft purposes. While in NY when I originally tried to register it I was asked 2 questions. Are you planning on selling it and Are you planning on transferring or willing it out. Both NO at which point I asked "well then why are you registering it you are not required to) I then explained that I brought my 80% with me to NJ and that I wanted to register it legally in the state. This time I got the same answer from NJ that I got from NY. I was told I could voluntarily register it but was not required to do so and they didn't see any reason for me to. I then asked how I could make it legal to have it and I was told that as it is as long as it follows the no assault rifle rule and conformed to all the NJ ban laws I was in confines of LAW. But if I wanted to give it a try I could try to register it with the ATF but was told again it isnt required. Here was my questioning after I explained my scenario. 80% Kits Can I legally Posses 80% lower in NJ. Yes Can I legally Posses 80% lower in NJ without a Firearms ID Yes Do I need my Firearms ID to transport my 80% MILLED / COMPLETED lower to and from a range. No Do I need a Firearms ID to posses my 80% MILLED / COMPLETED receiver or transport to a range and back. No Do I need a Firearms ID to or MILL / COMPLETE No (But it is a very thin line... It is considered a grey area, and NJ has NEVER prosecuted anyone for it. Manufacturer is a term more used Commercially and for sale of said kits and is even considered to be a really grey area among prosecutors as well.) Do I have to have a firearms ID to touch a gun or Join a range in NJ NO. A Firearms ID is for purchase. Its a myth that you have to have a FID to hold a gun or shoot one and it is in no way shape or form a law that you cannot shoot at a range without FID. Ranges LIE to you and do it for liability but I promise you there is no Law regarding such nonsense. Here is the number I called ... I originally called Troop A and got a lot of my questions answered by the girl who answered but hten we started talking manufacturing and building, and to my surprise its not all that un-common, but she had to refer me to the firarms unit. Here is the number. NJSP Firearms Division 609-882-2000 I used to work for a Law Enforcement Supply Company here in NJ. Ive never had my FID nor was I required to, all I needed was to be Pink Carded... Thats it... So there is a lot of misconception about the laws in NJ. I actually got so sick of reading all the mis information on all the different forums so I decided to call NJSP and a lawyer and get real answers instead of the bull$hit answers I was seeing from all these street law lawyers. And I especially got tired of peoples "Interpretational law" So the bottom line is this. You can legally without a Firearms ID bring your 80% milled receiver into the state with no issue and can posses it and transport it to and from a range or FFL dealer etc. You can purchase 80% Lower receivers and Upper kits in NJ without a Firearms ID. Milling is grey but has never been prosecuted. You do not have to register it. You are not required to Serialize it nor do you even have to report it. In my own opinion, if you get pulled over with it, as long as you are not an a$$hole to the officer and explain the situation I believe you will be OK. And if you believe in your heart your about to get screwed ask the officer to call the NJSP Firearms division out of courtesy and respect and give them the number. But it is all at the discretion of the officer and I truely believe if you are following the transport laws and are not breaking any other laws you would be fine. In fact I believe this enough that I take mine to the range all the time. Unfortunately all the ranges down this way want a Firearms ID for you to join but you can go as a guest so a friend and I split the cost of the membership and I go as his guest. Why dont you have your Firearms ID SocietyHill? Good question.. As I said I worked for a Lawe Enforcement Supply Company here in NJ and was going to get it but was told it wasnt really necessary at the time as I could be Pink Carded. And as far as my FID for owning guns I wasnt required to but people insisted I was breaking the law so I was a little paranoid but had contacted state police back in 2006 and got clarification. I am applying for my FID but have never had any real reason to have to have it. I purchase all my Ammo online or from PA. And for everyone out there suggesting Im skirting the law... In no way was I or am I trying to get around laws or push grey areas... I have been around Firearms my whole life. My Grandfather , Father and Brother are all Law Enforcement so I respect the Laws. Firearms in our houses are not weopons they are tools, like a hammer and every tool has a purpose in my opinion. And to further that we are a family of marksmen, its what we do, so I definately would never break the laws and ruin any chance I have at owning guns ever again. I will also post copies of the laws I looked up as it went much further than the NJSP firearms laws. One law led me to another to another to another lol. And as a safeguard I have printed the laws out directly from the state police, NJSA and penal codes and I carry them in my Rifle Case with the AR. Thanks for reading guys and good luck, I browse the forums but have never posted before so its kinda cool to actually post =D I am not an attorney nor am I giving any legal advice but I hope this helps a few people. Be safe and Many Blessings my friends. SocietyHill