Lucky Lefty

Just read through the entire amended bill from 11/14. There is only one worthy thing to note amongst the dumpster fire that is 4769.. They changed the definition of "holster". No more retention strap lingo. Great news chaps, you can wear your kydex to the mailbox... still. h. For purposes of this section, “holster” means a device or sheath that securely retains a handgun which, at a minimum, conceals and protects the main body of the firearm, maintains the firearm in a consistent and accessible position, and renders the trigger covered and inaccessible while the handgun is fully seated in the holster.

Bah humbug! I mean... congratulations!

Last I've seen confirmed as of last week was #186 The number approved applications have been extremely inconsistent week to week. I wouldnt be surprised though if this week they get up to near ~250, as 2 weeks ago it seemed like the got out 40 in one clip. However, it's all a guess with this shit-show of a process. Best of luck, fingers crossed, knock on wood and all that good stuff

Technically GSP is 80mph. The signs say otherwise, but you WILL NOT get pulled over between mile marker 0 to ~135ish unless you are doing 81+ The "understood" limit was 85 before Corzine almost died in a state trooper SUV that was doing 95+ through ocean county.

Don't feed the troll. You gave him exactly what he wanted, attention. Typical mindset of a wannabe LEO. Guarantee you he's a dispatcher that walks around with an owb phone, military boots, and the cop cut to match. Might have even flunked the academy. Anyhow, really hoping we see an uptick in approved applications this week.. as we approach the holidays I can only imagine the vacations amongst court personnel is going to greatly delay what is already a snail-paced process. And to think - I scoffed at the records clerk back in July when he said "you MIGHT get it by December, maybe even later".

I bet 5000 is even pushing it. Also, @Batt52 permit number doesn't necessarily mean that is the 493rd "post bruen" permit. I would wager that is the 493rd permit to carry on record for Passaic County's existence, unless the court number given to his application was 'GP-PC-493-22'. The issued permits numbers across the state have been inconsistent with the "GP" application numbers. One thing I really liked that was brought up at the last hearing, by one of the DC Project reps during their testimony, was that if the state has claimed there are 300,000 applications, how does the state justify less than 15,000 permits being issued. Excellent example of the PDs and courts abusing the process that should be completed within 90 days.

It should read "stripped away the state's ability to restrict a citizen's constitutional right to carry a firearm"

Retain a lawyer well versed in 2a

One of the best parts of Danielson's BS from that interview Flat out says this bill has nothing to do with stopping criminals, it has everything to do with law abiding gun owners. https://mobile.twitter.com/avsternator/status/1585776402796023808?fbclid=IwAR3GPXEJ_0C0kZ7_C2SszTfXgqU4E349w3YgjUe8JlYOck0EAhepDN6oYVM

My guess is that there have been approx 100-150k applicants so far, just from the various streams of information I've seen, such as the gentleman who owns Gun For Hire stating a couple weeks ago that his facility has had over 20,000 people take their PTC qualification course post Bruen. That's just 1 establishment with over 20,000 qualifications in 3.5 months

Not only did he get to speak in the middle of people who were testifying against this bill, the Republican assemblymen asked him no questions, Assemblyman Danielson told the PBA rep he was "co-author of the bill", and the icing on the cake for me was when the chairwoman running the show told the PBA rep 'we like you & you are very special to us".

That hearing yesterday was nothing short of despicable. They treated the PBA representative like he was their choir boy. Everything he said they handled with white gloves, and every argument he made was why this bill shouldn't exist for anyone, let alone cops vs citizens. He stated how this bill essentially prohibits carry everywhere, and that's just not fair (to Leo and rpo). He brought up the holster language, and insinuated that the bill was essentially telling woman who wanted to carry would have to alter their wardrobe to follow the bill as written, and he 'wouldn't dare tell women what they could or could not wear' and they chairwoman interjected with a "thank you" for speaking up for them. The chairwoman made a reply to him of how much they like him and how "special" the PBA rep was to them. Then when the Republican side has a chance to question the sponsor (which while they did a decent job, they really could have dug a but deeper with their arguments with the sponsor), they acted offended and were extremely condescending. When assemblyman Bergen made the same exact argument about woman carrying, they all blasted him as trying to make woman seem helpless and the chairwoman and sponsor Danielson appeared deeply offended he would try to say the bill was unfair to woman. The sponsors response to the bill prohibiting carry in places of worship, when asked if the place of worship could allow members of the facility to carry amd would they exempt them from the place of worship prohibition, he scrambled and with high levels of uncertainty claimed that it would fall under permission from private property, and he "wouldn't want anyone at church to be mad at him", implying he'd make sure there was a loop hole for places of worship. One of the worst, is assemblyman Danielson refusing to give even 1 example of where you can utilize your carry permit when not on your own property. His answer of "everywhere.... everywhere that is not listed as prohibited in the bill" is unbelievable, considering "everywhere" is essentially prohibited on the bill. Everywhere, should mean everywhere. It's sad and disheartening to see this is how our political system works. End rant.

This bill passed through the NJ Legislature hearing today with a majority vote of YES. PBA supports the bill, as long as they are excluded from it. The sponsor of the bill, assemblyman Danielson, acklnowedge he believes you should be arrested and charged with a 3rd degree crime for accidentally walking onto private property while carrying, and then said he doesn't even know what the punishment for a 3rd degree crime was (3 to 5 years in prison and a $15,000 fine). When asked about the part of the bill not allowing carry in a vehicle, which would force a permit holder to brandish their firearm in public view, which is a crime, assemblyman Danielson said he was not aware that brandishing a firearm was a crime. The assemblywoman running the show then said something along the lines that it's on the public to know whether or not someone is brandishing a firearm to commit a crime or if they were just attempting to properly store their firearm in the trunk. I feel like I just watched an episode of The Twilight Zone Awesome! Thanks for sharing!

Ball is rolling in Ocean county again, finally. Appears there are 3 judges involved now, 2 approving and 1 for denials. As per this fb post and accompanying comments, Ocean County has approved somewhere around GP#140. Very important to note, permit checked no restrictions and there was ZERO attached court order.

This has been my assumption for all of the delays and the PDs "waiting for further guidance". I'll remember that next time I get a moving violation. I'm going to notify the PD and Court that I am awaiting further guidance until I move forward with paying any fines. If they can wait for the laws to change prior to taking action, instead of adhering to the current statutes, so can I, no?

Thank you for this info! Greatly appreciated!!

Hate to admit how deflating this whole experience has been. Finally removed justifiable need, only for the state to trip over themselves in a mad dash to pass legislation to treat the most law abiding citizens this state has as criminals. If they pass this new legislation, there will undoubtedly be more criminals in short time due to the hoops of fire we have to jump through when carrying a firearm WITH A PERMIT TO CARRY. I simply cannot understand where their logic is in rushing to pass laws to literally strip our rights to protect ourselves, especially after the highest court in the land deemed exactly what they are doing as unconstitutional. The proposed legislation vs. justifiable need is 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other, with the former more suited to ruin your life. I try to refrain from being so dramatic, but with this in play, I truly hate this state and the politicians running it. Apologies for the rant, just sharing my experience thus far.

I've been reading that some people claim to have been denied by PA counties for having an attached court order of any capacity with their NJ PTC. One guy on FB claims his restrictions are only for specific guns, but the PA County he went to denied him for this reason. Can anyone here confirm if their NJ PTC is checked See Below, or See Court Order, and have successfully received their PA non resident carry permit? I'm assuming anyone who has been approved, their actual PTC is checked No Restrictions and PA is not privy to any attached court order, no matter the type of restriction. TIA

Aside from donating money to ANJRPC and the like, what can we do to fight this madness. I'm sick and tired of being treated like a criminal even though I've most likely broken fewer laws in my life than these politicians trying to pass such mindless laws. What can we do?

He recommended transporting your firearms in a briefcase, or bookbag, or musical instrument case.. anything other than what appeared to be a gun case. In thinking about this discussion, and I apologize for veering off track of the permit application experience that this thread is supposed to be, but I can't help buy feel like I'm being over dramatic in thinking that cops are going to look for every way to screw you over and find you in violation of some firearm law or court ordered restriction to arrest you and take away your 2a right... but that has been the status quo in this state and many people have had their lives ruined over "illegal possession of a firearm" in NJ, even they whole heartedly believed and thought they were doing everything to follow the law. To further clarify my question @pjd832, I'm asking that if the cop is somehow privy to your PTC, is that considered reasonable suspicion to search your vehicle if they believe you also have one of these court orders with some kind of restriction they believe you are violating. Whether its an "unqualified gun" or you happen to have an ocean county permit with the "no carry in or on any motor vehicle". Just as if they pull you over and see a box of ammo on the floor near the backseat that you forgot was there, or a spent casing you somehow dropped on the backseat, or many other things that have always given them reasonable suspicion to believe a firearm is in the car and search your vehicle. I'm really trying to not be a nervous Nancy here, and again I'd love to give LEOs the benefit of the doubt that they won't bust chops on a legal PTC holder... the actions of NJ law enforcement makes me paranoid I suppose.

I agree. I am curious if the officer while be informed you are a permit to carry holder by running your information, and if they do have that information is that reasonable suspicion to believe there is a firearm in the vehicle. Which then gives them the right to search you and your vehicle? Sincere question. If the answer is yes, then they can further scrutinize the court order etc. Of course this can be fought, and you may win. Most of us want to avoid the circus of being arrested, property being confiscated, and absurd legal cost for the battle in court. I may be incorrect, but I'm pretty sure Mr Nappen informed the crowd at the last US Law Shield meeting that the officer has a right to search you if they have reasonable suspicion to believe there is a firearm in the vehicle, which is why he told us to never transport your firearms in a gun case. Again, in reply to my original comment and @Bomber's response, in retrospect the correct way to handle any traffic stop is "I do not answer questions".

That makes you an outlier. An exception to the rule. However, while you have no duty to inform, the cop can ask "do you have any weapons/firearms in the vehicle?". Happy to hear you have a get out of jail free card due to employment.. but even cops get arrested by other cops for ridiculous reasons, and your position and experience does not help 99% of the average Joes out here under far more scrutiny. Good luck in your travels my friend.

While I agree with the simple logic here, I feel this is a dangerous game to play with your rights. For example, if you reside in Ocean county, and you're pulled over in Ocean county, and the officer is keen to the fact that every single ptc had been issued with an attached court order to some degree, and you play dumb... you can find yourself in some serious hot water. We are talking about court orders issued by a superior court Judge, that may seem unconstitutional but they are lawful orders under current nj statute. While I don't agree with any of the orders or restrictions, we know what law enforcement and the courts are capable of in this state, and they are not on your side. The term "law abiding gun owner" goes out the window when you pretend your court order doesn't exist. Careful out there.

As per a Facebook post, looks like the court clerk from Gloucester has divulged some information stating that they have 175 applications slated for court hearings on Oct. 20th. I almost want to take the day off, get some popcorn, and go watch how they plan to handle this. Some speculate this is an attempt from the Judge to get the prosecutor to drop the court hearing required part of the process. Cannot wait to see how this goes.

Zero permits have been issued out of Somerset. I've heard (read) that they are still awaiting "clarification from the AG" until the court starts issuing permits. I would highly suggest contacting Strikeforce and Jay Factor if you live in somerset. If you have a Facebook profile, get on the NJ Firearms Syndicate page and reach out to Jay Factor. He has been personally typing up letters for anyone who's PD and Court have been not adhering to the timelines and/or issuing restrictions. I personally believe the pressure from him and strikforce have made serious impact in a positive manner on the issuance of PTCs in several counties. He will provide you personalized letters to be sent to the pd, prosecutor and the judge. You can either sit and wait, or take action. Best of luck