Sig

Again, to reiterate, I did not cite the case to support "reasonable deviation" itself. I cited the case to encourage dialogue among oneself to realize just how easily the law is allowed to be interpreted. Yes, the judge is the final interpretation. The motivation of my posts was to address what was being perceived as unnecessary paranoia. While an individual may feel they were following the letter of the law, the current verbiage of certain laws allows members of our judicial system to interpret it in such a way that you have committed a crime. Thus the paranoia is justified and in in some ways is healthy. I believe we're all saying the same thing in the end.

Thanks @Maksim, I will check it out.

Just to be clear I did not cite the case to specifically support "reasonable deviation." I wanted to expand the scope to just the "reasonable" standard alone. I wanted to encourage people to think about how everything is open to interpretation with or without mitigating circumstances. In my opinion firearm laws should be clearly defined so that there is very little room for argument. Ideally, the cases that are being argued in our court systems should be those rare long shot exceptions to the rule. The majority of circumstances, however you choose to set the stage, should be clearly defined. If laws aren't clearly defined it allows for inconsistent or disparate application of the law. Yes, there are many cases where someone actually did the crime but the defense had a better argument. But, this is exactly how responsible gun owners get their lives ruined and jail time for minor nuances of the law that are "argued" better by The State of NJ than some criminal defense lawyer you just spent your entire life savings on.

I'm new to the boards so I'm not familiar with other members just yet. Paul? Where art thou, Paul?

I left out many of the details because I did not want to get into the specifics as there are so many different flavors and ways you can cut it. Rennigner did exercise very poor judgement and ultimately broke a few laws including having a loaded firearm directly accessible to him. I cited the case to encourage introspection as to how the "reasonable standard" was determined many different times during the traffic stop. Did the findings of the officers and Appelate court judges match the readers own idea of "reasonable", why or why not? I'm calling attention to the fact laws needs to be thoughtfully considered and written clearly with qualifying specifications so they can't be argued one way or the other. Our firearm legislation in its current form allows for too much interpretation.

PSA won't ship completed rifles either? Say it ain't so. No, seriously tell me if this is actually true No one has recommendations for me in PA?

The law being written in 'plain English' does not necessarily make it clear. It often has individuals unsure of the law. The problem is the language in our statutes are written ambiguously. Who determines what a reasonable deviation is? If the cop at the time of a traffic stop does not deem it reasonable then you have a criminal charge on your record, additional financial burden, and various other cascading effects. All these repercussions for a charge that will be ultimately dropped "if you have nothing to worry about." If you find yourself saying "no reasonable person would arrive to that conclusion" then I ask you to review some of our NJ gun laws and explain the reasoning behind some of them pertaining to complaint rifles. I also ask inquiring minds the following: Is it reasonable for a person transporting firearms while moving to another residence in a different state to pull over in an empty parking lot and sleep should they suddenly realize they are posing a danger to others on the road? I invite you to review STATE OF NEW JERSEY, v. DUSTIN S. REININGER @ https://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2013/nj-guns.pdf. There are very interesting points in this case which can spawn off a whole new thread entirely. Evan Nappan claims "The court is essentially saying the plain view of a gun case is a basis for a warrantless search. That means every law-abiding gun owner in New Jersey is subject to warrantless search if they transport their firearms in a gun case." Again I ask, who determines what is reasonable? Is it really "... easy to follow them" as @Fishnut and others describe? It is NOT written in plain English that a bathroom break is a reasonable deviation. It is NOT written in plain English what a 'reasonable deviation' is . It was not clear restrooms were a reasonable deviation UNTIL April 8th 2016 where the NJ Attorney General felt compelled to release "Guidelines regarding reasonable necessary derivations ..." This is a FIVE page guideline to explain a ONE sentence subsection of NJ statute N.J.S.2C:39-6G. It is important to note that this a guideline and not written law. There still is no explicit exemption for bathroom while transporting a firearm (to the best of my knowledge.) There is simply a guideline on how to apply the law. There is cause for paranoia and that's exactly what they want ... create enough ambiguity to make gun ownership burdensome and undesirable ultimately dissuading individuals. It has come to the point where vendors are refusing shipment of firearms to NJ due to any perceived risk/liability. My point is this: Unreasonably restrictive and poorly written NJ laws cause justified paranoia even for those who put their best foot forward to ensure they are following law when exercising their 2a rights ... or what's left of them. My fear is that more and more states will adopt similar polices and most people don't care because of the whole 'move out of NJ if you want to own a firearm' mentality." This type of mentality allows anti-gun movements to gain strong footholds in CA, NJ, NY, and NH. They will take away 2a rights little by little slowly over time until there's nothing left. Gun ownership is a war of attrition.

Let me preface this by saying I have heard nothing but good things about the company and I have personally ordered small ticket items once from them in the past without issue. Additionally, and to their credit, the manager offered to prepare a quote on parts in lieu of the completed rifle. The manager tried her best to match the rifle I ordered i.e. completed upper, stripped lower, lower parts, extension and I would have to assemble it myself. Despite the manager's best effort the price point totaled higher than if they just shipped me my original order. The company is Primary Arms. NJ residents should avoid purchasing completed rifles from Primary Arms. Primary Arms will not ship completed rifles to NJ which they have failed to state anywhere on their website as policy or at any point during the checkout process.

Any reasonable person would think a call from the FFL would help but my offer to make that happen was dismissed. I have spoken with the manager of the FFL department responsible for refusing shipping and they have stated their designated ATF correspondent advised against sending non-compliant rifles to NJ as did their legal department. Yes, it is likely a combination of ignorance of NJ laws, knee jerk overreaction by their legal department, and refusal to care because only few states have such absurd ambiguous legislation . I can go on about this forever but I digress. I'm extremely disheartened by the whole situation and just growing tired of it. I would just like my rifle so I've been reduced to finding an FFL/gunsmith in PA I'm sure a local NJ FFL can get it if they really wanted to but I purchased this rifle through a MDW sale. The small profit margin will likely not be worth the FFLs time.

Thanks for the warm welcome. @cabalrayz is right is on the money. The company is the one refusing to ship to NJ.

Hello everyone, brand new to the board so let me know if I'm in the right subforum or if I can have this better answered elsewhere. pagunforums.com anyone? lol Can anyone recommend an FFL in Pennsylvania that will pin weld breaks, pin stocks, and also accept transfers. I live in North Jersey so anything in North PA with low FFL and gunsmithing fees are preferable. I am running into problems with a shop refusing to send complete AR 15s to NJ FFLs. Any help is appreciated.