runcibleman

So I was looking at Zenith's lineup and saw that some model are just over 26" long with their braces unfolded. And then a thought came to mind... If Zenith custom made a version of this that has the brace fixed open (i.e. disabled the folding functionality) and added a VFG, would this comply with the interpretation of what an "Other Firearm" is per the NJSP FIU? https://zenithfirearms.com/product/zenith-z-5rs-sb-rail/ Mind you, they're a manufacturer who start with the raw MKE stampings and do the rest themselves, so it wouldn't be modification of something that is a "rifle" or a "pistol", but it'd be built up, by the manufacturer, for retail as a non-NFA Firearm per NJ's understanding.

One time a NJ FFL accidentally sent in a NICS check on my behalf incorrectly logged as a handgun (it was a lower receiver, so they should've gone with "Other"). They noticed the issue when the check was denied on account of a "30 Day Violation" as I had just gotten a handgun two weeks before with them. They contacted the NJSP FIU and cleared it up, and reran a check for "Other" which came back all good to go without any delays. In spite of all that, guess what? I got a call from a nice detective with the NJSP FIU three weeks later, and he asked me to please confirm that I had been indeed denied that check in error due to a miscategorization by the FFL. I said yes, that was my understanding, the FFL sent it in incorrectly and then had contacted them (The FIU) and cleared it up. We chatted a little in a very amicable way, we said good day to each other, and I was on my way. I've not heard or seen them every since and all my dogs are still very much alive. I am usually disinclined to answer questions by a police officer, but his very professional and polite ways totally disarmed me. He wasn't on a fishing trip, he just wanted me to confirm the FFL's story, or so it seemed to me. It's been some time so I don't think there is anything more to it than that.

Or build one for $1700.

In before the $2.2k LWRC magick blunderbuss.

Ooooh, I really like my MRO, but yeah, those asshats! No tactile/audible adjustment clicks? SERIOUSLY! What the eff, Trijicon?

Only thing nicer than the BRT linear comp was the Griffin Armament M4SD Linear Comp, but good luck getting one, those things are like good dust, and Griffin Armament told me two weeks ago that they have no intention of ever producing another run of them. Should've bought two when they still had 'em!

Agreed 100% Also, the Vltor A5 tube is approximately 0.75" longer, just to keep in mind, and should you go for that, with a rifle length buffer spring and a heavy rifle buffer (if not just directly a Vltor A5H2/A5H3/A5H4 buffer even), you can really smooth out the recoil impulse. This is a cheap and reliable way to reduce felt recoil and really make the platform that much more shootable.

Yeah, that's nice and all, but as Anthony Colandro keeps saying, you're a law-abiding criminal in NJ. Why would you deliberately try to get yourself in trouble with the law over firearms? At a minimum, you get a felony conviction and life is totally screwed from then on. No more firearms, ever. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, it's that simple.

I dunno man. PK90 might have gotten a bit confounded there. The regulations aren't all that complicated, they're just stupidly worded and not assembled into one concise, cohesive document. In NJ you need to heed the NJSP's guidance as well as naturally obey federal law. I am going to ignore those Black Aces whatever things, as those are strange and anyway, the object of most people's inquiry is building an AR-pattern "firearm" per the NJSP's approved pattern like the Troy Industries A4 "Other Firearm", the Modern Materiel SBF, etc. You measure the OAL (which has to be greater than 26") now, per the NJSP as well as the ATF, from the received extension/buffer tube to the end of the barrel, or the end of the muzzle device if that is permanently affixed to the barrel. It's just that simple. The ATF says you can shoulder a brace, the NJSP hasn't said anything to the contrary. You must ALWAYS have a vertical foregrip attached to the firearm to keep it a firearm, and not a pistol. Start with a blank receiver that was never built into a rifle or pistol before, very simple. Don't buy a completely "pistol receiver" as that's obviously already built to be a pistol. Just get a completed or stripped separate lower receiver and that's where you'd start. This sort of non-NFA firearm is not an "assault weapon" per NJ law, as the NJSP even point out in their letter, so you can use any flash suppressor etc. Don't use a folding brace as you'll definitely screw yourself with that. It really is quite simple. Please note, I am not a lawyer, but that's my two cents take on it. I will err doubly on the side of caution and just get a Modern Material SBF, straight from the factory in the permitted configuration, and that'll be that.

Oh, thanks! I didn't catch that detail! So in many states other than NJ, they'd just take a pistol, slap a VFG on it and that was a legal "firearm" provided they could measure >26" with the brace extended all the way? Curious.

Thanks, that's good to know. So basically the NJSP FIU's way of measuring is now apparently the correct way, per the ATF. A collapsing brace needs to be collapsed all the way for the OAL measurement. If you had a folding one, it would have to be folded.

Yo dawg, maybe I want to ride my bike to the range and not have every cop on the way stop me because I'm shlepping a rifle case, but instead have a sexy longer backpack on my back which they'll think is some hipster longboard travel case, esp. if you slap some "Shorties be broke, longies be woke" patches on it. Because if I was taking a separate upper and lower, bro, that's constructive intent!

It has been said many a time, in NJ you own a gun at the explicit exemption of the authorities, otherwise what you're doing is entirely illegal. This isn't America.

And if you do it in the garden shed, they'll first flashbang your neighbor's poolhouse and rake all his windows, pop his chihuahua and labradoodle so you have about 45 minutes before they knock on your door, by which time you're good to go.

Funny though that DSFC Bloom cited that particular bit of our state's criminal code. Here is NJ Criminal Code Title 2C, Chapter 39, Section 5, Subsection e, paragraph 2: All of section 5 for your reading pleasure: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2018/title-2c/chapter-39/section-2c-39-5/

If it's the NJSP FIU measuring it? Surely collapsed. But the ones they explicitly approved were non-folding so I personally would stay away from a folding brace, because things... and doggo doesn't want to get shot by state troopers.

It's run by the fuddiest of fudds who hate anyone who hasn't been a member since 1976 or who isn't an LEO, in which case they worship you and lick your boots. If you're anyone else, don't even bother, they don't want your money. And you definitely aren't competent enough to use a holster, only LEO's, even if they shoot themselves in the leg.

Oh so they have Gunny Asshole from Randolph there, all plate-carriered up, one gun strapped to the plate carrier in a chest holster and another on his waist, limping around and shouting abuse at people like a drunk asshole? Good, because for what is an otherwise nice range, Gunny Asshole sure ruined Randolph for me, that sack of mentally deranged shit.

I agree with you, but the overly cautious abused housewives of NJ, which sadly includes too many FFL's and range operators, are so gaslit with the imagined prospect of shaved-headed state troopers kicking down their front door and shooting their dog and then having to spend months in court that they will rather assume that only those few manufacturers have permission, not you and I, even if we follow their same recipe as elaborated in the NJSP's letter to Troy and DSI.

Well, that's the problem: Do you want to risk being the test case if there is no explicit consent from the NJSP FIU? Let's say on the 1% likelyhood that some shitty range (and yes, they exist, and shitty RSO's exist everywhere, even at otherwise decent ranges - see the plate-carriered asshole at RTSP in Randolph with the two guns always strapped to himself, barking at everyone because he hates himself so much and somehow management hasn't gotten rid of that nasty old cur) would report you and the troopers come out, do you want to have the hassle and aggravation of having the non-NFA firearm seized and possibly be charged until they are proven wrong?

Well, that's precisely the reservation of many people here. They don't dare presume that they too can safely build their own versions of what some manufacturers (Troy, DSI, Modern Materiel) got approved based on their recipes. (Must start with new lower receiver, not an already partly or fully built rifle/pistol lower, use a brace instead of a stock, always have a vertical foregrip attached, and overall length must be greater than 26" — which the NJSP measured from the collapsed brace to the end of the barrel, or the muzzle device if permanently attached to the barrel)

LOL, that's not good! Wasn't there a case of a Sr. who got his guns seized once when Jr. was charged with domestic abuse, and all because he never put his SSN on his P2P's and didn't use the suffix Sr., so they went after the guy with the most handguns registered, and then of course he had to fight for weeks to get his incorrectly seized property back?

Dark Storm, maybe it was clear to everyone else (it took me a few more reads and checking your site, buy your newly approved Non-NFA Firearm is not a fixed magazine AR-derived firearm that is NJ legal, has a shorter barrel, brace, etc.: https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/ds-15/ds-15-typhoon-rifles/dark-storm-ds-15-non-nfa-firearm-typhoon-5.56-black/ So once again, for others who might be slow on the uptake like I am: You can have a non-fixed magazine weapon with a shorter than 16" barrel that is based on the AR15 DI mechanism, within the narrow confines of the NJSP's tolerances, per the letter issued to Dark Storm and Troy Industries.

Oh, thank you, that's good to know too. I didn't think about adding a note, as my father and I naturally share the same surname, so I would hope that they'd realize that we were directly related, but now I won't worry about it either way.

About there weeks ago, someone here working at Reloaderz posted this: So what's the latest on this? Has the Franklin Armory XO-26 been now declared as NJ legal just because it's manufactured directly as a "weapon", not a rifle, handgun, or shotgun per the definitions of those in NJ law, and labelled accordingly, so it's an "Other/Weapon" on the form 4473?