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47 minutes ago, EdF said:

I agree with your sentiment as well.  That's why I included the "otherwise clean" . . . But, if you shoot an intruder with a hollow point, shot out of a gun with a 30 round mag and a threaded barrel . . . You're starting off on the wrong foot . . . In fact, you likely don't even want to have those things in your safe.  

Well hollowpoints are legal in the home no? But i certainly get your point. 

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30 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said:

Well hollowpoints are legal in the home no? But i certainly get your point. 

As I understand it, the statute is often misquoted and misunderstood.  Hollow points are just fine to have in the home however, they are NOT legal for self defense even in the home.  If I'm mistaken I would be happy to hear another interpretation.

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4 minutes ago, EdF said:

As I understand it, the statute is often misquoted and misunderstood.  Hollow points are just fine to have in the home however, they are NOT legal for self defense even in the home.  If I'm mistaken I would be happy to hear another interpretation.

Curious if theres case data aboit this. Regardless i use hornady critical defebse which isn't technically hollowpoint

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9 minutes ago, EdF said:

As I understand it, the statute is often misquoted and misunderstood.  Hollow points are just fine to have in the home however, they are NOT legal for self defense even in the home.  If I'm mistaken I would be happy to hear another interpretation.

How is it misquoted?  Please explain your rationale that hollow points are not legal for self defense in the home?

The statute says possession of hollow points are legal at home, on the range, or for hunting. If you legall possess them at home why can't you use them for SD there?

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49 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

How is it misquoted?  Please explain your rationale that hollow points are not legal for self defense in the home?

The statute says possession of hollow points are legal at home, on the range, or for hunting. If you legall possess them at home why can't you use them for SD there?

If you like . . . You can either find something that contradicts my statement or take it up with the NRA certified instructor that led the recent class that I took my girlfriend and son to.  According to him, you can POSESS hollow points and you can shoot them at a range.  

He was incredibly clear:  You can't use hollow points or FMJ for home defense in NJ.  He recommended Hornady Critical Defense and one or two others.  

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Ask your instructor to find a statute that says it is legal to use Hornady critical defense...Here's a hint, there isn't one. No law in NJ says anything about what you can use for Self Defense in your home, only where you can possess hollow points and "in your home" is definitely stipulated.

If you must fire a gun in SD in NJ you will most likely be charged with something regardless of what type of ammo you are using. However possession of hollow points in an unlawful manner should not be on that list of charges since you were in your home.

Where guns are concerned in NJ, you are assumed to be guilty until you are proven innocent, that is the fact. All the discussion of what type of ammo is just window dressing. I am not a lawyer though and I suspect your trainer is not either so if you want to, you can ask a lawyer but the answer is going to most likely be "maybe" because NJ's laws are too arbitrary.

Added...

I found this discussion on what the State Police had to say about it in 2011 so not sure how valid it is or if it is still good in 2020.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-jersey-law-on-ammo-definitive.628312/


"-It is legal to own and store hollow point ammunition in your home
-It is legal to purchase hollow point ammunition in a store
-It is legal to transport hollow point ammunition to range for sporting use (and for that matter in most hunting situations)
-It is legal to purchase, own and use Corbon Powerball, Hornady Critical Defense and Federal EFMJ (including Federal LE EFMJ +P loads) at range and in personal defense situations in home pursuant to NJ state law on use of force in home defense situation
-NJSP ballistics unit does not consider the rounds mentioned above as hollow point or dum dum bullets and will testify as such if required

-It *may* be illegal to *use* hollow point bullets in a home defense situation, however, this is a gray area. NJSP will not make an arrest higher than 4th degree in this circumstance and if not associated with another unlawlful act will likely not make an arrest at all. However, should criminal or civil charges be pursued by gunshot victim at later date, you may be liable and charged with use."

So that is probably where your instructor got the Hornady Critical Defense from.

Hopefully none of us ever get a chance to test this out...

-Jim

 

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3 hours ago, EdF said:

 . . . But, if you shoot an intruder with a hollow point... . You're starting off on the wrong foot . . . 

WRONG

If you use a hollow point at an Antifa protest, then you're in the shit

Use one at home and you're good as gold.

Read the statute, Ed. Home and range are exempt hollow point locations.

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15 minutes ago, JimB1 said:

Where guns are concerned in NJ, you are assumed to be guilty until you are proven innocent, that is the fact.

No truer words have been spoken!!!!

In some places or conversations, in this god awful state, people consider you a felon if you just admit you're a gun owner.

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1 hour ago, EdF said:

If you like . . . You can either find something that contradicts my statement or take it up with the NRA certified instructor that led the recent class that I took my girlfriend and son to.  According to him, you can POSESS hollow points and you can shoot them at a range.  

He was incredibly clear:  You can't use hollow points or FMJ for home defense in NJ.  He recommended Hornady Critical Defense and one or two others.  

I can easily fix that. I am also an NRA certified instructor and what he told you is fiction.

In NJ there are statutes which describe what level of force you can legally use in various locations and situations.

There is clear delineation between where and under what circumstances deadly force vs. non-deadly force can be used.

There is nothing in any of these statutes that even mentions the type of bullet you may or may not use if deadly force is justified, let alone proscribes one type or another.

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38 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

I can easily fix that. I am also an NRA certified instructor and what he told you is fiction.

In NJ there are statutes which describe what level of force you can legally use in various locations and situations.

There is clear delineation between where and under what circumstances deadly force vs. non-deadly force can be used.

There is nothing in any of these statutes that even mentions the type of bullet you may or may not use if deadly force is justified, let alone proscribes one type or another.

I would love to know the statutes if you can easily find them. I love this forum!

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Here you go

Self Defense

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2019/title-2c/section-2c-3-4/

Defense of other

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2019/title-2c/section-2c-3-5/

Defense of property

note in NJ defense of property never justifies deadly force and use of a gun in NJ is defined as deadly force. 

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2019/title-2c/section-2c-3-6/

Here’s the statute on hollow points as well. Note it just has locations you can possess hollow points not actions you can perform

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2019/title-2c/section-2c-39-3/
 

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4 hours ago, EdF said:

If you like . . . You can either find something that contradicts my statement or take it up with the NRA certified instructor that led the recent class that I took my girlfriend and son to.  According to him, you can POSESS hollow points and you can shoot them at a range.  

He was incredibly clear:  You can't use hollow points or FMJ for home defense in NJ.  He recommended Hornady Critical Defense and one or two others.  

He's either wrong or you misunderstood what he said.

I think it's the latter based on your last paragraph.  You can't use hollow points or FULL METAL JACKET for SD in NJ???

You can use either at home.  Full metal jacket is not a good idea as it overpenetrates but you certainly can use it. If it's what you got use it.  It works okay.  We fought all our wars with FMJ and it seemed to work.

You need to become more familiar with the laws that govern the permissible use of lethal force in NJ.

I've only been a firearms instructor for about 45 years.  What could I know?

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Here's how much I care at this point . . . Not at all . . . 

All of this bullshit started over a threaded barrel.  Just screw on a thread protector or get it welded.  The f'ing point that I was making could have been made just as easily WITHOUT MENTIONING AMMUNITION . . . 

Consider that I have done so and gone home . . . 

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On 12/3/2020 at 4:00 PM, EdF said:

As I understand it, the statute is often misquoted and misunderstood.  Hollow points are just fine to have in the home however, they are NOT legal for self defense even in the home.  If I'm mistaken I would be happy to hear another interpretation.

@EdF, you were the one to bring up ammunition.

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3 hours ago, 45Doll said:

Imagine if Biden becomes President the irony of a Hi-Point 995FS (or any other model) being an NFA item.

Sleepy Joe won't live in the White House long enough to do anything but demand we wear masks for at least 100 days.

The Kamel, on the other hand, will expand the NFA registry (without allowing post-86 full autos) quicker than she can get Willie Brown to cum.

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