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Pizza Bob

Why the Delay (FPID & P2P)?

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Yes, I know that there is an unprecedented demand right now for both FPID's and P2P's - a huge percentage increase over the same time last year. However, with the FARS system I don't think things have slowed down all that much. And if we are looking to point the finger at one element in the process, that is responsible for some of the delays that people are experiencing, I would have to say it is the NJSP/FIU.

Here is what I base my supposition on: I have praised my local PD, on this forum, for the quickness with which they issue new permits. And it's not just me, others on here serviced by the same PD have experienced similar performance. But the case in point was illustrated for me by an e-mail I received this morning. It was an e-mail from the NJSP that told me my 5 e-permits for which I had applied were "now available for execution."

Those permits were applied for, via FARS, on 11/10/2020. My PD notified me that I could come in and pay for them (thus activating them) on 11/18/2020. Yet I didn't receive the above-referenced e-mail until this morning (12/02/2020) - two full weeks after I was notified by the local PD. That e-mail also related that the expiration date on the permits was 02/16/2021 - which tells me they were actually approved on 11/16/2020 and my local PD notified me two days later.

Why was my local PD, not blessed with the automated systems of the NJSP, able to notify me two days after approval, but it took the NJSP - whose system should have spit-out an automated notification with no human intervention, two weeks for, essentially, the same notification? They were able to notify the local PD in a timely fashion, why isn't an applicant notification letter generated at the same time?

In this instance, it's no big deal as I still have a number of paper permits to be executed and now the 5 e-permits. But, if I had been a purchaser, who had a gun sitting at my FFL awaiting the issuance of an executable permit. I'd be pretty PO'd that two weeks passed from the actual executable date to the notification date. Or, if I was shopping and had not yet found what I wanted, or it wasn't currently available, that failure to notify just lopped two weeks of validity off my permits.

The move to automated systems is the correct one, but there is some human element that is still mucking up the works.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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1 hour ago, Pizza Bob said:

Yes, I know that there is an unprecedented demand right now for both FPID's and P2P's - a huge percentage increase over the same time last year. However, with the FARS system I don't think things have slowed down all that much. And if we are looking to point the finger at one element in the process, that is responsible for some of the delays that people are experiencing, I would have to say it is the NJSP/FIU.

Here is what I base my supposition on: I have praised my local PD, on this forum, for the quickness with which they issue new permits. And it's not just me, others on here serviced by the same PD have experienced similar performance. But the case in point was illustrated for me by an e-mail I received this morning. It was an e-mail from the NJSP that told me my 5 e-permits for which I had applied were "now available for execution."

Those permits were applied for, via FARS, on 11/10/2020. My PD notified me that I could come in and pay for them (those activating them) on 11/18/2020. Yet I didn't receive the above-referenced e-mail until this morning (12/02/2020) - two full weeks after I was notified by the local PD. That e-mail also related that the expiration date on the permits was 02/16/2021 - which tells me they were actually approved on 11/16/2020 and my local PD notified me two days later.

Why was my local PD, not blessed with the automated systems of the NJSP, able to notify me two days after approval, but it took the NJSP - whose system should have spit-out an automated notification with no human intervention, two weeks for, essentially, the same notification? They were able to notify the local PD in a timely fashion, why isn't an applicant notification letter generated at the same time?

In this instance, it's no big deal as I still have a number of paper permits to be executed and now the 5 e-permits. But, if I had been a purchaser, who had a gun sitting at my FFL awaiting the issuance of an executable permit. I'd be pretty PO'd that two weeks passed from the actual executable date to the notification date. Or, if I was shopping and had not yet found what I wanted, or it wasn't currently available, that failure to notify just lopped two weeks of validity off my permits.

The move to automated systems is the correct one, but there is some human element that is still mucking up the works.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Glad to hear that the e-permit is working.

I have been waiting now 45 days under the paper process since being approved by the NJSP to print my permits.

Started the process on Sept 7, 2020 approved in 43 days on Oct 19 2020 and still waiting on NJSP to print the permits. 

 

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Make the system completely automated?  including a way to check status/permits/etc online.  Right now we submit the FARS - and just sit and wait for email updates.  A status page to login to would be nice.  How are we to keep track of our electronic permits once they're active?  

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I haven't done the FARS online thing yet, but Hamilton Twp. (The one near Trenton) has been great in regard to the fpid/ p2p process, always just under a month and notified same or next day. I understand that the NJSP may be overwhelmed with applications (it doesn't seem to take much...covid, threat of unpeaceful protests, full moon), but isn't the entire process required to be completed in 30 days? I think the Murphy/Grewal/Callahan bromance seems rather evident.

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9 hours ago, bennj said:

I haven't done the FARS online thing yet, but Hamilton Twp. (The one near Trenton) has been great in regard to the fpid/ p2p process, always just under a month and notified same or next day. I understand that the NJSP may be overwhelmed with applications (it doesn't seem to take much...covid, threat of unpeaceful protests, full moon), but isn't the entire process required to be completed in 30 days? I think the Murphy/Grewal/Callahan bromance seems rather evident.

Interesting, my friend uses the same PD. He waited 4+ month for his initial FID and is now two months into his wait for a P2P. He screwed up and didn't request the P2P at the same time as his initial FID.

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I picked up some permits on 11/25. Oddly I got an email yesterday from FARS saying they were now available in the online portal. I assume the local PD processes and prints them, then submits the permit # online to be updated in the NJSP FARS system. I just find it odd getting them in hand, then a week later getting notified they were available. 

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The variability of times points AWAY from NJSP and AT the local PDs.  
For example . . . Just because your local PD notified you to come in and pay for the permits doesn't mean that they didn't sit on that payment for two weeks before entering it into the system so that SP could OK printing . . . 

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23 minutes ago, EdF said:

The variability of times points AWAY from NJSP and AT the local PDs.  
For example . . . Just because your local PD notified you to come in and pay for the permits doesn't mean that they didn't sit on that payment for two weeks before entering it into the system so that SP could OK printing . . . 

What is this "printing" that is referred to? These are e-permits, there is no printing until one is executed at an FFL, at which point they print out the transaction for your records. There is no paper back-up at the local PD that I know of. Once you pay for the permits at your local PD they become executable. I would imagine that it is little more than a keystroke to indicate to the NJSP that permits have been paid for. I can see your point if your local PD tends to "drag their feet" on all things firearm related, but mine does not, so I return to my original premise.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

PS: Have since applied for four more permits and a Multiple Purchase Exemption - it'll be interesting to see if the inclusion of the MPE mucks up the works as badly as it did when they were all hard copy.

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There is the potential for delay at every step in the "process".  The NJSP FIU is an easy target, and mostly well-deserved, but local PD's take their direction from the Chief and sometimes the Prosecutor (and them through the NJAG).  If any of them are anti they have the ability to slow things down to a crawl.  

Even in towns that are friendly, some people applying for permits still treat them like crap.  I can almost guarantee those folks get slow-walked through the process.

The short answer to "Why is it slow?" is "Because they can"...   There is no accountability for taking long, and no benefit to them in doing it efficiently.   It's government - they aren't here to help.

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1 hour ago, Pizza Bob said:

What is this "printing" that is referred to? These are e-permits

It doesn't matter if they are e-permits or printed permits . . . . Yes, printed permits get "printed" while e-permits get "approved" or "made available" depending on the terminology you want to use.

The point that I made remains valid.  The local PD may delay notifying NJSP after you pay causing the same wait that you are discussing.

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It's slow because "THEY" feel like it, it's really that simple. The chiefs are not in their position because they are all expert operators, they instead fill a political role that is aligned with the progressive power elite in NJ. They hate you, everybody like you, what you stand for, and take your application for FID, P2P, and god forbid CCW app as a personal insult. They will sit on your application as long as humanely possible in order to cause as much discomfort to you as they can. Does anybody remember Carol Bownie, the woman in NJ murdered by her ex while the NJSP sat on her application? There garbage, it's what they do...

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17 hours ago, marlintag said:

It's slow because "THEY" feel like it, it's really that simple. The chiefs are not in their position because they are all expert operators, they instead fill a political role that is aligned with the progressive power elite in NJ. They hate you, everybody like you, what you stand for, and take your application for FID, P2P, and god forbid CCW app as a personal insult. They will sit on your application as long as humanely possible in order to cause as much discomfort to you as they can. Does anybody remember Carol Bownie, the woman in NJ murdered by her ex while the NJSP sat on her application? There garbage, it's what they do...

Yet all the NJ gun rights groups choose not to do anything about this at all. They do nothing to challenge the permit system, and would rather spend all their energy on less important things like magazine capacity. Would you rather have a gun that is limited to 10 rounds, or get killed because you have no gun at all because you're sitting around waiting for the corrupt and incompetent police department to issue your permit?

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50 minutes ago, Dr. Goodshot said:

Yet all the NJ gun rights groups choose not to do anything about this at all. 

I haven't looked closely at any that NJ groups are currently doing.  But, I suspect that they shy away from the permitting process (and carry) because the local PDs are involved in those processes.  It doesn't matter what the state wide law is if your local PD can screw you over.  These days, there is less and less reason for them to be part of the process.  Applications are on line, payment can be on line and pick up could be on line (along with the idea of e-permits.   

It's not like it's 1952 where the local police know everybody in town and can say, "Well . . . I'm not issuing any purchase permits to Chris Smith.  I we do, he'll be out Kelly Wilson's house shooting at her latest boyfriend."  

No . . . I don't know any Chris Smith or Kelly Wilson . . . The example isn't from personal experience . . . 

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5 hours ago, EdF said:

I haven't looked closely at any that NJ groups are currently doing.  But, I suspect that they shy away from the permitting process (and carry) because the local PDs are involved in those processes.  It doesn't matter what the state wide law is if your local PD can screw you over.  These days, there is less and less reason for them to be part of the process.  Applications are on line, payment can be on line and pick up could be on line (along with the idea of e-permits.   

It's not like it's 1952 where the local police know everybody in town and can say, "Well . . . I'm not issuing any purchase permits to Chris Smith.  I we do, he'll be out Kelly Wilson's house shooting at her latest boyfriend."  

No . . . I don't know any Chris Smith or Kelly Wilson . . . The example isn't from personal experience . . . 

Yes, this makes sense. It explains the part of the law that says that an applicant must be of "good character and good repute in the community." This provision makes absolutely no sense whatsoever today, but probably sounded reasonable back in the old times when everyone knew everyone else in town.

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