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2021 Housing Market Crisis

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Just now, Sniper said:

Go back and read what I originally posted. Bottom line, if the town reassess your house at a higher value, you'll be paying additional taxes. With housing prices jumping so much this year, you have to believe the towns want a slice of that pie.

If a town reassesses ONLY your house and find the value higher, your tax bill will go up and everybody else's will go down a little. If they reassess all of the houses in your town and they are all found to be higher, the tax bill will be the same. The town's budget doesn't increase just because the property values go up.

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2 hours ago, Sniper said:

I did some digging around to see just how large of an issue this was. Reports were that at least 8 million to 10 million people were at the risk of eviction for non-payment. Compare that to a normal year of 3 million. I don't even know how accurate that 10 million is, or how they measure it, since so many landlords are mom and pop operations. In some states, like California, it said over 20% of renters aren't paying.

Then add in the number of potential mortgage foreclosures, which are estimated in that 10+ million range too... Many of these landlords aren't paying their mortgages. Once the renters skip out (as you know they'll never pay back rent), how do the landlords pay back past due mortgages.

Then add in all the private homeowners who haven't been paying their mortgages. Many recent houses sold in my area were FHA 3.5% down loans, These people have no skin in the game and no equity. Makes it easy to walk away.

Trying to get a handle on the dark days of what's coming in the housing market is tough... how does this movie end???

NOT GOOD.

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THEY normally raise property taxes by a percentage as stated. this year, your taxes may be (for instance) $5k/year. they decide they need more money for the schools, so they raise your taxes by 3%. that was a game they played when christie was governor. he'd put the cap on how much they could raise taxes. so townships/boroughs all went and reassessed property values. your property that had only been assesed at (for instance) $90k is now worth(according to them) $140k. so essentially they raised your property taxes without raising your property taxes.

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4 hours ago, Sniper said:

That makes no sense. Go back and read what you posted.

If the residents have to pay a higher percentage, of course the municipalities get more revenue....  :facepalm:

How did you come to this conclusion? Sounds like you just made it up. 

It makes perfect sense because total revenue is a fixed number, not a sliding value based on home value. Once a budget is passed for school and municipal services, only then does your property value dictate what you pay. Property values are literally the last thing to be considered when determining an individuals tax liability. 

"If the residents have to pay a higher percentage", that is again not how it works. If your home has increased in value more than another's, your tax liability can go up, which would cause cheaper properties liability to go down. This is common knowledge when ever a town conducts appraisals on home values. 

Let's say the school passed a 50 million budget, municipality passed a 20 million budget. Total tax revenue is determine to be 70 million. 

Now how do home values fit in there? They don't. 

 

Who's gonna pay how much to meet the 70 million tax liability for the town?  Now we're talking home values.

 

I can't imagine how this doesn't make sense. 

 

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1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

THEY normally raise property taxes by a percentage as stated. this year, your taxes may be (for instance) $5k/year. they decide they need more money for the schools, so they raise your taxes by 3%. that was a game they played when christie was governor. he'd put the cap on how much they could raise taxes. so townships/boroughs all went and reassessed property values. your property that had only been assesed at (for instance) $90k is now worth(according to them) $140k. so essentially they raised your property taxes without raising your property taxes.

Not true, towns played this game using the 3 year. I believe it was 3 years. They could not increase taxes by a average of 2% over so many years. So if they increased taxes 4% one year the following years could only be 1% each or 0% and 2% respectively.

 

The law Christie passed was pretty clear cut. A budget BUDGET could not increase by more than 2%.. 

 

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1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

THEY normally raise property taxes by a percentage as stated. this year, your taxes may be (for instance) $5k/year. they decide they need more money for the schools, so they raise your taxes by 3%. that was a game they played when christie was governor. he'd put the cap on how much they could raise taxes. so townships/boroughs all went and reassessed property values. your property that had only been assesed at (for instance) $90k is now worth(according to them) $140k. so essentially they raised your property taxes without raising your property taxes.

This. 
 

Your property tax = Township Budget * Your property value / sum of All property values   

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56 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Let's say the school passed a 50 million budget, municipality passed a 20 million budget. Total tax revenue is determine to be 70 million. 

Now how do home values fit in there? They don't. 

What's to stop them from passing a new, juiced budget, knowing they have a potential increase revenue source due to higher home valuations in the town, due to this recent spike in prices?

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13 minutes ago, Sniper said:

What's to stop them from passing a new, juiced budget, knowing they have a potential increase revenue source due to higher home valuations in the town, due to this recent spike in prices?

If they increase the budget you will almost always pay more in taxes regardless of your property’s valuation.    They could just raise the budget and you’re xx cents per $1 dollar assessed value would go up accordingly based on the current valuation ratio.  Also, And the higher property values can’t be used by the township right away. They have to do the total assessment first to document the new values.  That can take a year or more. 
Could they do what your talking about?  Yes. 

What should really scare you is the total value of all properties relies heavily on commercial ratables.  How many vacant commercial buildings do you see in your town?

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29 minutes ago, Sniper said:

What's to stop them from passing a new, juiced budget, knowing they have a potential increase revenue source due to higher home valuations in the town, due to this recent spike in prices?

How does home values increasing across the board relate to potential for revenue increases? 

Are people making more money because their homes are worth more? There's no correlation there to suggest people could afford the price increase. 

Most budgets are passed purely on the basis of household income, using like a line item budget increase to justify tax increases each year. It's a very different process than passing say the state budget. 

However, At the end of the day they can pass what ever budgets they would like. Most towns attempt to keep taxe increases low, I encourage people to participate in budget meetings each year.. they can be... colorful to say the least. The 2% cap is still in effect, so that limitation still exists. 

 

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27 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Could they do what your talking about?  Yes. 

Wow, a long post just to get to the point I was making.

27 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Most towns attempt to keep taxe increases low,

Really?

Why don't you post your property tax bill for last ten years so we can see that.

My taxes have gone up 34% in the seven years I've been in this house. The biggest jump came when they bumped up the assessed value in 2014.

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My assessment was raised in ‘16 (I think), the tax RATE remained the same, but the assessed value went up. 
 

The Republican mayor of my town make a big deal about telling everyone their taxes weren’t going up…

Call it what you want, at the end of the day, I pay MORE in property taxes. 

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19 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Wow, a long post just to get to the point I was making.

Really?

Why don't you post your property tax bill for last ten years so we can see that.

My taxes have gone up 34% in the seven years I've been in this house. The biggest jump came when they bumped up the assessed value in 2014.

So what improvements did you make to your home to increase its value over your comps? 

 

 Your taxes couldn't legally be raised more than 14% in that time period unless you jumped rates due to home improvements. 

 

I could show you every fucking town in NJ trying to manage the 2% cap,  trying to keep it below 2% to bank the difference for a another year etc.. 

 

How many budget meetings have you attended in your own town? Any? 

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4 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

So what improvements did you make to your home to increase its value over your comps? 

A pool was added.

4 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Your taxes couldn't legally be raised more than 14% in that time period unless you jumped rates due to home improvements. 

Sure, the numbers are fake... keep believing that..

12 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said:

My assessment was raised in ‘16 (I think), the tax RATE remained the same, but the assessed value went up. 

Call it what you want, at the end of the day, I pay MORE in property taxes. 

And that's how they play the game, either tweak the assessment or the rate. They get their pound of flesh either way.

My assessed value is $7K LOWER now from when I bought the place in 2013. They bumped the assessed value up in 2014, to pound me with higher taxes, then bumped it back down in 2015. But guess what, my tax bill has gone UP every year, not down.... Imagine that...

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21 minutes ago, Sniper said:

A pool was added.

Sure, the numbers are fake... keep believing that..

And that's how they play the game, either tweak the assessment or the rate. They get their pound of flesh either way.

My assessed value is $7K LOWER now from when I bought the place in 2013. They bumped the assessed value up in 2014, to pound me with higher taxes, then bumped it back down in 2015. But guess what, my tax bill has gone UP every year, not down.... Imagine that...

I dont know what your even babbling on about. I pointed out the reality. You can either accept it or continue to beleive some delusional conspiracy.  What ever they are tweaking has no effect on actually total revenue. 

In 2015 they probably decreased assessments across the board. You made an improvement to your property, that clearly explains it. 

 

I just checked my taxes. My personal rate increases were on average 1.5% per year. 

 

The only way your taxes decreases is if the budgets go down, or other property values increase more than yours.. 

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13 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I dont know what your even babbling on about. I pointed out the reality. You can either accept it or continue to beleive some delusional conspiracy.  

Here's your delusional conspiracy about a 2% cap per year. I screen captured my chart from Zillow. I whited out the front edge of the numbers, but you'll see the percentage increase each year. The assessed value has been the same since 2015, when it was lowered back down.

Keep believing the 2% cap, do you also believe in unicorns?

taxes2.jpg

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1 hour ago, Displaced Texan said:

My assessment was raised in ‘16 (I think), the tax RATE remained the same, but the assessed value went up. 
 

The Republican mayor of my town make a big deal about telling everyone their taxes weren’t going up…

Call it what you want, at the end of the day, I pay MORE in property taxes. 

and yet....your taxes went up. pretty much a more direct to the point way of saying what i said above. they raised your taxes without raising your taxes.

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1 hour ago, Sniper said:

Here's your delusional conspiracy about a 2% cap per year. I screen captured my chart from Zillow. I whited out the front edge of the numbers, but you'll see the percentage increase each year. The assessed value has been the same since 2015, when it was lowered back down.

Keep believing the 2% cap, do you also believe in unicorns?

taxes2.jpg

No offense, but you literally have no idea what you're even talking about. I never said the 2% cap applied to an individual. Doesn't seem like you took the time to even understand what it is. There's really nothing left to discuss about the issue. The facts have been provided to you, you are free to ignore them. 

 

Maybe your town doesn't like you and is out to get ya.. lol, piss anyone off lately?

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2 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

No offense, but you literally have no idea what you're even talking about. I never said the 2% cap applied to an individual.

But hours ago, you said this:

5 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

The 2% cap is still in effect, so that limitation still exists. 

Folks, you can't make this crap up...

Here Jack, this should help your confusion:

....."With his signature, Christie lowered the existing ceiling on annual increases from 4 to 2 percent, and closed most loopholes in the existing law".

When towns and schools starved of revenue want to raise taxes higher, they will have to get permission from a majority of local voters — something foes warn will widen the chasm between rich and poor communities.

"They've got to come and get permission from the people who pay the bills," the Republican governor said, flanked by supporters at a signing ceremony in Hamilton Township."

https://www.nj.com/news/2010/07/gov_christie_signs_2_percent_p.html

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42 minutes ago, Sniper said:

But hours ago, you said this:

Folks, you can't make this crap up...

Here Jack, this should help your confusion:

....."With his signature, Christie lowered the existing ceiling on annual increases from 4 to 2 percent, and closed most loopholes in the existing law".

When towns and schools starved of revenue want to raise taxes higher, they will have to get permission from a majority of local voters — something foes warn will widen the chasm between rich and poor communities.

"They've got to come and get permission from the people who pay the bills," the Republican governor said, flanked by supporters at a signing ceremony in Hamilton Township."

https://www.nj.com/news/2010/07/gov_christie_signs_2_percent_p.html

i'm not arguing with ya.....

 

 or they could re-evaluate your property. value goes up, so do your taxes. i know you already know this.

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3 hours ago, Sniper said:

When towns and schools starved of revenue want to raise taxes higher, they will have to get permission from a majority of local voters — something foes warn will widen the chasm between rich and poor communities.

"They've got to come and get permission from the people who pay the bills," the Republican governor said, flanked by supporters at a signing ceremony in Hamilton Township."

And the residents almost always vote to raise their own taxes. 

Mainly with the school budgets which comprise 2/3's of the local tax bills BTW.

 The boards of education use tax payer money to mount sob story marketing campaigns. If its shot down on the first round they trim a little fat off the edges, put on the ballot again and the fools (I mean voters) approve it.   

Saw this in happen my town happen twice the past ten years or so.

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9 hours ago, Sniper said:

But hours ago, you said this:

Folks, you can't make this crap up...

Here Jack, this should help your confusion:

....."With his signature, Christie lowered the existing ceiling on annual increases from 4 to 2 percent, and closed most loopholes in the existing law".

If I remember right, the 2% increase cap was on the budget.   That doesn’t mean your individual tax burden increase is capped.   So Jack’s statements are consistent. 

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1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

If I remember right, the 2% increase cap was on the budget.   That doesn’t mean your individual tax burden increase is capped.   So Jack’s statements are consistent. 

New Jersey lawmakers on Monday imposed a 2 percent limit on annual property tax increases by local governments, trying to gain control of one of the state’s most contentious issues.

The new law includes exceptions for certain kinds of expenses, and also allows voters in each town or school district to exceed the limit and tax themselves more, leaving it unclear what the effective ceiling will be.

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11 hours ago, Sniper said:

But hours ago, you said this:

Folks, you can't make this crap up...

Here Jack, this should help your confusion:

....."With his signature, Christie lowered the existing ceiling on annual increases from 4 to 2 percent, and closed most loopholes in the existing law".

When towns and schools starved of revenue want to raise taxes higher, they will have to get permission from a majority of local voters — something foes warn will widen the chasm between rich and poor communities.

"They've got to come and get permission from the people who pay the bills," the Republican governor said, flanked by supporters at a signing ceremony in Hamilton Township."

https://www.nj.com/news/2010/07/gov_christie_signs_2_percent_p.html

So when was the last time your town held a referendum increasing the 2% cap?  Not to be confused with a capital debt referendum.

So you're referring to an exception that exists, but won't even indicate if your town used it? 

I've come to see a common theme about people who complain the most about taxes, they typically know nothing about the process or even attempt to participate in it. They get their bill each year, complain like a bitch, and the take it up the rear the following year. They don't want to know how budgets are made, what constraints are placed, the fact you can organize for public comment, run for the board etc...  

Actually, in 2017 my taxes went down. Funny how in some towns we don't have these issues because people get off their lazy asses and do something about it, instead of bitching about it on a forum. 

But anyways, congratulations for finding an exception to a point I made that rarely happens. Not that you made a point or anything as if it was used in your situation. 

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9 hours ago, Bomber said:

And the residents almost always vote to raise their own taxes. 

Mainly with the school budgets which comprise 2/3's of the local tax bills BTW.

 The boards of education use tax payer money to mount sob story marketing campaigns. If its shot down on the first round they trim a little fat off the edges, put on the ballot again and the fools (I mean voters) approve it.   

Saw this in happen my town happen twice the past ten years or so.

Very few towns actually vote on their budgets, how many people vote in April for their budgets? Have you ever? 

Referendums are on the ballot in Nov. What you are referring to is mostly likely a bond referendum. The vote to exceed the 2% cap is a basic question. Do you or do you not approve exceeding the 2% cap, there is no value to trim fat from. It's a simple yes to exceed or no. 

A bond referendum will give the value the school wants to borrow, if it doesn't pass, they will "trim it", or scrap it all together. 

 

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25 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

But anyways, congratulations for finding an exception to a point I made that rarely happens.

 

3 hours ago, voyager9 said:

So Jack’s statements are consistent. 

Yeah, consistently wrong, but whatever...

26 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

I've come to see a common theme about people who complain the most about taxes, they typically know nothing about the process or even attempt to participate in it. They get their bill each year, complain like a bitch, and the take it up the rear the following year. They don't want to know how budgets are made, what constraints are placed, the fact you can organize for public comment, run for the board etc...  

Actually, in 2017 my taxes went down. Funny how in some towns we don't have these issues because people get off their lazy asses and do something about it, instead of bitching about it on a forum. 

Ha... that's funny... You must be confusing me with someone who gives a shit. I don't spend a second worrying or putting in time about something I have no control over.

But, you continue to knock yourself out, and go to all those town meetings, thinking that it will make a difference. You know, like voting every two years... how's that working out for you?

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37 minutes ago, Sniper said:

 

Yeah, consistently wrong, but whatever...

Ha... that's funny... You must be confusing me with someone who gives a shit. I don't spend a second worrying or putting in time about something I have no control over.

But, you continue to knock yourself out, and go to all those town meetings, thinking that it will make a difference. You know, like voting every two years... how's that working out for you?

Tax increases well under the 2% cap, and tax decreases for me.. going pretty damn good so I will continue to do my part.

But continue to complain and be an ignorant fool... and as always contribute absolutely nothing to your situation or the discussion. makes no difference to me.

 

And don't for one second pretend like you don't care... thats a delusional cop out you pull when youre proven wrong all the time. You spend enough time arguing on here for someone who cares plenty. Your defeatist attitude is amusing considering the rhetoric you throw at people around here... so put up or shut up. What are YOU going to do about it?

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