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Will You Ever Be Able To Legally Carry A Gun In New Jersey?

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1 hour ago, GRIZ said:

That works for what? How crude you can be while not having the facts straight?

Cops have always used throwdowns to cover up their crimes and that was the point.  What city they may have murdered someone in is totally irrelevant.  Sadly, no one recognizes civility any more, and the only thing that gets any attention is comments such as Fuck Joe Biden. 

With that corrupt dementia patient destroying the country a record pace , I see no need to be nice, and have no respect for those supporting Democratic Socialist evil.

 

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On 12/30/2021 at 2:27 PM, WilliamParker said:

That one exactly.  NJ gun owners had as much a problem with NRA as with the democrsts.  NRA authored some horrible gun legislation here.

not just here. didn't they back the gun control acts of 1934, 1968, 1986, AND the hughes amendment? i think it was that outlawed the manufacture or importation of anything full auto for civilian use?

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8 hours ago, marlintag said:

okay, show of hands who still has hope that the SCOTUS case will result in NJ getting carry? I personally am holding a sliver of hope as this is a SCOTUS case unlike other potential cases that have come down the pike. SCOTUS cases have a national effect and cannot be ignored by states including NJ. I just don't see how NJ can ignore a landmark SCOTUS decision?  If SCOTUS strikes down "may-issue" schemes NJ would have to abide just like it does with possession of firearms under Heller V DC. 

i do not think it will happen in our lifetime.

 those politicians who say they support our right to carry do in fact not support such. they're using it to get their foot in the door with us for votes.

 those 2a organizations who say they support us(national, regional and local) do the same thing. they use our hope and our enthusaim for money gathering.

 those lawyers that claim to support us do the same. the difference here is that we all eventually NEED them.

the combination of the three above.......if they truly believed in our rights under the 2a, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

 

 THERE IS MORE MONEY IN TREATING THE DISEASE THAN THERE IS IN CURING THE DISEASE.

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41 minutes ago, WilliamParker said:

Cops have always used throwdowns to cover up their crimes and that was the point.  What city they may have murdered someone in is totally irrelevant.  Sadly, no one recognizes civility any more, and the only thing that gets any attention is comments such as Fuck Joe Biden. 

People who aren't cops have used drop pieces to conceal their crimes.  That's okay?

What city it happens in is very relevant.  The incident you referred to happened in Arkansas in 2012 not NYC.  How many of these happened is NY in 2012?  How many have happened in NY 2012-2021? How many cities has this happened if it's going on so much.  You have to go back 9 years to find something that supports your point?  The way you talk you should only have to look at yesterday's news.

There are bad cops sure.  But there are bad people anywhere.

With that corrupt dementia patient destroying the country a record pace , I see no need to be nice, and have no respect for those supporting Democratic Socialist evil.

OMG!!! Where did anyone in this thread did anyone support Biden? Where is anyone supporting Democratic Socialist evil?

 

 

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1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

i do not think it will happen in our lifetime.

 those politicians who say they support our right to carry do in fact not support such. they're using it to get their foot in the door with us for votes.

 those 2a organizations who say they support us(national, regional and local) do the same thing. they use our hope and our enthusaim for money gathering.

 those lawyers that claim to support us do the same. the difference here is that we all eventually NEED them.

the combination of the three above.......if they truly believed in our rights under the 2a, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

 

 THERE IS MORE MONEY IN TREATING THE DISEASE THAN THERE IS IN CURING THE DISEASE.

This is why I only joined the NRA because my range requires it. I won't give them another dime of my money other than what's required.

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18 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

not just here. didn't they back the gun control acts of 1934, 1968, 1986, AND the hughes amendment? i think it was that outlawed the manufacture or importation of anything full auto for civilian use?

They did.  We had a very progun state senator who we helped get into the congress and he was the pivotal last vote that passed Clinton's AW ban.  Florio also bribed Repub Bill Gormley for the critical last vote for our AW ban which the GOP had multiple opportunities to repeal and didnt. 

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On 12/29/2021 at 8:16 AM, 1LtCAP said:

you mean the nra that's bargained our rights away at least since 1934? that nra?

So now we're going back to sawed off shotguns and fully automatic Thompsons? That's not the guns that I'm concerned about today.

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On 12/30/2021 at 4:47 PM, WilliamParker said:

Yes NJ gun owners would not be wrong to suggest that those in charge of supporting their 2A rights have either been weak at best, or just simply corrupt.  It will never happen legislatively and it seems that no one is making the argument which has prevailed in other gun hells like Chicago and Washington DC.

Well the 7th court of Appeals in the Chicago case the Chief of that court flat out quoted that people are in more danger outside their homes than inside. Why isn't that argument for the 2nd or 3rd circuit court of appeals working?

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22 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

i do not think it will happen in our lifetime.

 those politicians who say they support our right to carry do in fact not support such. they're using it to get their foot in the door with us for votes.

 those 2a organizations who say they support us(national, regional and local) do the same thing. they use our hope and our enthusaim for money gathering.

 those lawyers that claim to support us do the same. the difference here is that we all eventually NEED them.

the combination of the three above.......if they truly believed in our rights under the 2a, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

 

 THERE IS MORE MONEY IN TREATING THE DISEASE THAN THERE IS IN CURING THE DISEASE.

so, if you have no belief NJ will ever get CCW then would it be safe to say you are on your way out? Am I the only one who has any hope that come June things will change?

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On 12/31/2021 at 7:36 PM, 1LtCAP said:

i do not think it will happen in our lifetime.

 those politicians who say they support our right to carry do in fact not support such. they're using it to get their foot in the door with us for votes.

 those 2a organizations who say they support us(national, regional and local) do the same thing. they use our hope and our enthusaim for money gathering.

 those lawyers that claim to support us do the same. the difference here is that we all eventually NEED them.

the combination of the three above.......if they truly believed in our rights under the 2a, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

 

 THERE IS MORE MONEY IN TREATING THE DISEASE THAN THERE IS IN CURING THE DISEASE.

It truly saddens me to be so disrespected.  As the Vice President of a non-profit NJ Second Amendment organization that teaches women & kids how to shoot, and run strictly by unpaid volunteers, I can assure you I'd rather go back to multiple discipline competition shooting on all three popular platforms PLUS black powder, than having bull excrement such as the above thrown at me by uninformed emotional out-of-touch malcontents.

Raising funds to put towards LAWSUITS and Amicus Briefs is hard work, especially when we're busy carrying everybody else's water since most here on this board aren't members.  I really don't appreciate being painted with a wide brush!

David Rosenthal, VP

Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners (CNJFO)

 

P.S:  If you want to know why most 2A folks don't bother with this board, THIS type of post is why!

No photo description available.

 

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2 hours ago, marlintag said:

so, if you have no belief NJ will ever get CCW then would it be safe to say you are on your way out? Am I the only one who has any hope that come June things will change?

if it weren't for family obligations, i'd already be gone.

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18 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

It truly saddens me to be so disrespected.  As the Vice President of a non-profit NJ Second Amendment organization that teaches women & kids how to shoot, and run strictly by unpaid volunteers, I can assure you I'd rather go back to multiple discipline competition shooting on all three popular platforms PLUS black powder, than having bull excrement such as the above thrown at me by uninformed emotional out-of-touch malcontents.

Raising funds to put towards LAWSUITS and Amicus Briefs is hard work, especially when we're busy carrying everybody else's water since most here on this board aren't members.  I really don't appreciate being painted with a wide brush!

David Rosenthal, VP

Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners (CNJFO)

 

P.S:  If you want to know why most 2A folks don't bother with this board, THIS type of post is why!

No photo description available.

 

Thanks for the reminder Rosey!  I just renewed my expired membership!:)

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On 12/31/2021 at 8:47 PM, FDHog said:

This is why I only joined the NRA because my range requires it. I won't give them another dime of my money other than what's required.

When gays won their right to marry in all 50 states by the case carried to the US Supreme Court, observers stated that the decision unfortunately opened the door to the entire country gaining the right to carry firearms.  There was quite a lot of discussion given that the US Supreme Court held that if 51 percent of the states acknowledged gay marriage, then it would not be denied to the remaining 49% of the states. 

But NJ gun groups never pursued this to my knowledge. 

Neither did the pursue 14th Amendment violations within the state given that retired cops were rubber stamped a carry permit; having no greater need than any other citizen.  In fact, when gun groups favored the legislation to allow retired cops to carry, the argument is that would open the door to civilian carry, and of course we all know how wall that worked.  Many inside the gun lobby were against bringing up the 14th Amendment argument with police not wanting to hurt our friends in law enforcement - a quite debatable position.

Both were genuine and powerful arguments never used as far as I am aware.

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On 12/31/2021 at 8:47 PM, FDHog said:

This is why I only joined the NRA because my range requires it. I won't give them another dime of my money other than what's required.

I my small gun club of about 350 members, the NJ State Police had a plant, so just imagine how corrupted the NRA is from the inside out - as they have proven time and time again.

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6 minutes ago, WilliamParker said:

Maybe then, but in a Democratically controlled pro-communist environment of basic mind controlled idiots, the direct approach of Fuck Joe Biden works better.  Its all they understand.

I was not referring to your sentiments about Biden. I was referring to the way you responded to @GRIZ, who did nothing to deserve your ire as far as I could see. 

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On 12/28/2021 at 4:22 PM, drjjpdc said:

Let's assume that the court strikes down the NY law. Are you guys trying to say there won't be any consequences in NY?

And in addition it won't have any kind of positive effect for gun owners in NJ? Both states laws are almost the same. I'll bet the NRA has a case in waiting.

After SCOTUS ruled on the constitutionality of stun guns, IIRC it was a case from Boston, the NJ AG offices issued guidance that the NJ statute would no longer be valid and so long as you were 18 and not a prohibited person, no license or permit required to posses.
Similarly, if SCOTUS rules you don’t need a reason to exercise a right in the NY case, our laws can remain as is except no letter of need is required. I’m thinking they strike down the subjective nature of the scheme and make it objective. No judge or clerk deciding if you are worthy. Like what happened in Wash DC. That or self defense and all legal activities is a good enough reason in a the letter of need. 

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5 minutes ago, galapoola said:

After SCOTUS ruled on the constitutionality of stun guns, IIRC it was a case from Boston, the NJ AG offices issued guidance that the NJ statute would no longer be valid and so long as you were 18 and not a prohibited person, no license or permit required to posses.

NJ did not do this voluntarily. They only did it in response to a separate law suit.

NJ will happily squat all over your rights as long as they can, regardless of whether they know, or should know that it is unconstitutional.

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On 1/2/2022 at 10:01 PM, Mr.Stu said:

NJ will happily squat all over your rights as long as they can, regardless of whether they know, or should know that it is unconstitutional.

Every state currently has CCW available on the books. So If SCOTUS rules favorable in the NY case we should effectively get CCW “Shall Issue” in every state. Correct? As I believe the NY “May Issue”  rule is the concern..

I have read a lot of people say regardless of the ruling NJ will screw us but I would like to point out D.C tried to screw around when they got Shall Issue CCW imposed on them and I believe it was the Federal 4th circuit Judge who passed the ruling was having no part of it.    He got them in line in TWO WEEKS and at one point  it was legal for a day to Open Carry in D.C. with out a CCW license. He declared what they voted into law unenforceable or something and it took a day for D.C. to revise the law.  There where several pic’s of people open carrying with the Washington monument in the background.  In the end there implementation is not bad, they did not have to offer reciprocity but provided shall issue CCW option to non residents.

Any-case the Supreme Court may do the same if states don’t follow their intention and try to screw around… They  often take it as a personal disrespect to their authority…

Illinois(Chicago) had a similar situation and had to implement Shall Issue CCW and their initial attempt to implement was quickly corrected… They also don’t allow reciprocity but somehow got away with only offering people from 6 states with similar CCW rules the ability to apply for a non resident CCW. 

So my thought is within 6-12 month of ruling NJ and NY will offer Shall issue CCW similar to D.C or Illinois.   Hoops to jump through but can be done. No reciprocity and limited Non-Resident CCW available.

Once every state has shall issue CCW passing a federal National Reciprocity law is not as big a deal and will eventually get passed.

 

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So I do think they would try to block as long as they could get away with..

I am just pointing out the D.C and  Illinois had shall issue imposed on them and tried to screw around… Both times the Judges who passed the ruling took it personal and got them straighten out in very short order.. I think the Supreme count will feel the same way if disrespected.

The LEO Carry law was passed by congress so there was no one to Kick NJ’s ass for not complying..

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

If you don't think NJ will block as long as they possibly can, I suggest you look up the Federal LEOSA law and then compare to NJ's requirement that retired LEO must obtain a RPO permit in order to carry in NJ.

That retired cops basically get a rubber stamped carry permit is a blatant violation of our Constitutional rights under the 14th Amendment.  But gun groups refuse to use this as an argument.

Planned failure as NJ has been forever.  NJ gun owners have no chance of ever seeing their 2nd Amendment rights restored.  Zero.

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55 minutes ago, WilliamParker said:

That retired cops basically get a rubber stamped carry permit is a blatant violation of our Constitutional rights under the 14th Amendment.  But gun groups refuse to use this as an argument.

Planned failure as NJ has been forever.  NJ gun owners have no chance of ever seeing their 2nd Amendment rights restored.  Zero.

I'm curious as to when you're going to apply for your carry permit and pursue this legal strategy.

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New York preparing to make carry as restrictive as possible in the wake of a SCOTUS decision?

New bill introduced (not yet law):

https://nyassembly.gov/leg/?default_fld=&leg_video=&bn=A08684&term=2021&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Text=Y
 

"Prohibits firearms in certain locations, including but not limited to all forms of public transportation, large gatherings, and food and drink establishments."

 

Quote

..knowingly has in his or her possession a rifle, shotgun, or firearm in or upon the following locations:

12 (a) Any form of public transportation, including but not limited to

13 railroads, ride sharing services, paratransit services, subways, buses,

14 air travel, taxis or any other public transportation service;

15 (b) Food and drink establishments; or

16 (c) Large gatherings, which for the purposes of this section shall

17 mean a gathering together of fifteen or more persons for amusement,

18 athletic, civic, dining, educational, entertainment, patriotic, poli-

19 tical, recreational, religious, social, or similar purposes.

20 Criminal possession of a firearm is a class E felony. ...

 

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1 minute ago, DirtyDigz said:

New York State preparing to make carry as restrictive as possible in the wake of a SCOTUS decision?

New bill introduced (not yet law):

https://nyassembly.gov/leg/?default_fld=&leg_video=&bn=A08684&term=2021&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Text=Y
 

 

YEP! Propably! in a way this is good news! it means that there century long death grip on conceal carry is starting to fade and that you/I/we will be conceal carrying in the near future. NJ may follow suit shortly as well.. though they will not be able to stop the inevitable.

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9 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

New York preparing to make carry as restrictive as possible in the wake of a SCOTUS decision?

New bill introduced (not yet law):

https://nyassembly.gov/leg/?default_fld=&leg_video=&bn=A08684&term=2021&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Text=Y
 

"Prohibits firearms in certain locations, including but not limited to all forms of public transportation, large gatherings, and food and drink establishments."

 

 

Because that will stop or deter violent acts committed with a firearm. :facepalm:

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3 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

"Prohibits firearms in certain locations, including but not limited to all forms of public transportation, large gatherings, and food and drink establishments."

 

 

Wow.. If those restrictions go into effect it is hard to imagine being able actively CCW on a regular basis.

in NYC you would need to walk or own a car.. (Can’t even car pool) to go anyplace.

When you get there you can not be around more then 15 people for almost any practical reason.

 All eating and drinking establishment are forbidden so you can only be out in public with your CCW a few hours without needing to go home and eat………….

 

if they go that strict I would think the courts would eventually straighten them out.. As I mentioned D.C. and Illinois(Chicago) tried to play that game when they had  “Shall Issue” forced on them by them by the courts and got their ass handed to them in very short order… I doubt NY will be able to get away with anything too much more restrictive then they were able to…  

 

 

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