First rifle - what to look for.

[dilbert1967 95]

Hoping that the OP is not suffering from information overload with all of these great suggestions, I'd like to recommend a different pistol caliber carbine.  I have a Rossi R92 .357 magnum.  It holds nine rounds in the tube and one in the chamber.  I can hit targets out to 200 meters with it.  Sometimes, I get some snide remarks about my choice of rifle from time to time while at the range, but when they see I'm hitting the target, they simply walk away.

[JohnnyB 3,146]

1 hour ago, dilbert1967 said:

Hoping that the OP is not suffering from information overload with all of these great suggestions, I'd like to recommend a different pistol caliber carbine.  I have a Rossi R92 .357 magnum.  It holds nine rounds in the tube and one in the chamber.  I can hit targets out to 200 meters with it.  Sometimes, I get some snide remarks about my choice of rifle from time to time while at the range, but when they see I'm hitting the target, they simply walk away.

.357 magnum lever rifles are loads of fun! I have one.  The problem with .357 for home defense is the risk of over penetration!  I would stick with the AR15 WITH A WHITE LIGHT mounted on the rifle in .223/5.56x45.  Using the proper ammo, the AR platform will have the most accurate stopping power with the least chance for over penetration!

What say ye @High Exposure

[124gr9mm 402]

1 hour ago, dilbert1967 said:

Hoping that the OP is not suffering from information overload with all of these great suggestions, I'd like to recommend a different pistol caliber carbine.  I have a Rossi R92 .357 magnum.  It holds nine rounds in the tube and one in the chamber.  I can hit targets out to 200 meters with it.  Sometimes, I get some snide remarks about my choice of rifle from time to time while at the range, but when they see I'm hitting the target, they simply walk away.

Shoot what you got.

I'm a fan of lever guns and I'm a fan of .357 magnum, so rock on.

A lot of "enthusiasts" have multiple guns in multiple locations around the house for different reasons.  They become the anonymous experts of the internet who are convinced that their favorite gun is the only one that everyone else should use.  For people like that it's easy to talk about which gun is the "best for home defense" or the "best for XXXXXX", but at the end of the day the best gun is the one you can get and operate effectively when you need it.

Neighbor of mine has a pump action shotgun.

That's it.

He's killed things with it, used it for recreation, and you can be sure he'd use it for home defense if the need arose.

 

 

[EdF 96]

The great thing about pump shotguns and some lever action rifles when used for home defense is that everybody is familiar with the sound of a round going in to the chamber.  You may not even have to touch the trigger.  

Let's just hope the intruder remembered to wear the brown pants . . . 

[Shepherd9 182]

Just to add another manufacturer option...

Daniel Defense DDM4's are generally in stock in several places.  A little pricey but you are getting a fantastic rifle with quality components out fo the box.  

As plenty have stated, the market is tough right now concerning availability of firearms, parts and ammunition.  I'm a big proponent of building your own AR's where you can select the key components such as barrel, BCG, trigger, receiver, etc.  Unfortunately quality parts are very hard to come by these days.  At the moment good BCG's are non-existent.

Some fully assembled AR's are popping in an out of stock so keep your eyes open and if you're not too shy of a ~$1,700 price point definitely check out the Daniel Defense.

If you're in North Jersey, I believe Reloaderz just got a shipment of Troy "Others".  

[RUTGERS95 774]

Would not recommend an AR for home defense in urban areas but it's the best all around platform ever seen.

Lever guns are cool as fk

 

[CAL. .30 M1 1,728]

On 1/16/2021 at 7:35 PM, PolishPete said:

I’ve started looking into buying a rifle and would appreciate others’ opinions on what to look for when picking one. I am currently using the following criteria:

- primary use is home defense

- secondary use is range training (I’m in Sussex county, considering rtsponline.com as training facility)

- ease of acquiring and cost of ammunition

 

The first thing that popped up for me was AR 15 (and variants), since I’d imagine that is a very common rifle. Are there additional details I should be considering when picking a rifle? All comments and suggestions will be much appreciated.

While having a rifle is excellent - I would say anything in .30 caliber.  .

Considering you primary use is HOME DEFENSE - I would say a 12G Pump Shotgun - outfitted with 1OZ LOW Recoil slugs - that can and will serve you up close and personal as well as out effectively to 100yds.

Consider this, for standard home defense, there is nothing that an AR15 can do that an outfitted properly 12 Semi or Pump cannot do.

55Gr 62gr - 1OZ - do the math.

Also the odds of you being in a firefight are slim to none - so I am not sure that capacity is a criteria, if you are fighting beyond the 9 in the tube, 1 in the chamber and 6 on the receiver - you are in a world of shit and either the cavalry is on the way, or you better have another shooter(s) on your team that are bringing other long arms to bear.

You are in Sussex Co - so you most likely will not worry too much about over penetration, and depending on if you have land, a good .30 cal rifle and 12G are a far better choice than an AR15.

Do not buy into the AR erector set hype - Americas rifle hoopla

Also - you need to think about joining Cherry Ridge for some longer distance rifle shooting etc.

My PRIMARY weapon is a Mossberg 590 with Buckshot and 1OZ Low Recoil Slugs - bears, 2 legged creatures.

If it is looking to get very dicey - GOD forbid - a number of M1's, and M1A's can be brought to bear.

All common calibers.....

Avoid an AR15, you will be paying TOP of the Mark dollar for one today and you will never get your money back, ever if you need to sell it.

You are free to meet me at Chery Ridge at anytime to look over some .30Cal offerings.

 

[Bomber 298]

3 hours ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

Considering you primary use is HOME DEFENSE - I would say a 12G Pump Shotgun - outfitted with 1OZ LOW Recoil slugs - that can and will serve you up close and personal as well as out effectively to 100yds.

Consider this, for standard home defense, there is nothing that an AR15 can do that an outfitted properly 12 Semi or Pump cannot do.

No offense, but for SD better make that first shot count with a pump shotgun.

A determined assailant with a semi-auto handgun or AR could get off multiple rounds before you even got the second shell chambered. Multiple armed assailants, good luck.

Kyle Rittenhouse would probably be dead or talking funny right now had he been armed with a pump shotgun.

[Shepherd9 182]

3 hours ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

You are in Sussex Co - so you most likely will not worry too much about over penetration, and depending on if you have land, a good .30 cal rifle and 12G are a far better choice than an AR15.

Do not buy into the AR erector set hype - Americas rifle hoopla

Respectfully disagree.  The AR platform is a proven, accurate, fast and effective rifle for home defense.  A semi-automatic rifle would be superior for someone new to firearms for a defensive situation.  And with the right ammunition (i.e. not green tips) "over penetration" concerns are on par with most other rounds.

A 12 ga shotgun can be quite effective in the right hands.  A pump action, just as much so, with the proper training and experience.  In a SHTF moment, cycling the weapon will not be instinctive as it is when you're out on a flat range.  Fine motor skills deteriorate under adrenaline.  

While an experienced individual can make very good use of a lever action 30 cal or a shotgun under many situations, a semi-auto rifle will often cover a much wider variety of shooters and situations.

[Shepherd9 182]

I would also add that considerations for home defense weapon should include the possibility of other household members needing to utilize the firearm as well.

Again, the simplicity and reliability of the AR translates well across the household.

[Sniper 5,357]

4 hours ago, RUTGERS95 said:

Would not recommend an AR for home defense in urban areas but it's the best all around platform ever seen.

I don't see a AR as a good first choice for HD in any environment.

4 hours ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

Do not buy into the AR erector set hype - Americas rifle hoopla

and that's why... to me, it seems to be more of a cult then anything.

I wonder how many people have actually tried moving around their house, turning doorways and walls, going around furniture, all while swinging a AR of 35" in length? In most cases, the HD encounter with a bad guy will be at short ranges, 10 - 30 ft., not 100 ft shots. Do you really need a 3300 ft/sec projectile in that situation? And, if by chance the intruder gets the jump on you, good luck trying to get that barrel up for a clean shot in close contact.

A handgun, in the above situation, is more appropriate.

[RUTGERS95 774]

8 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I don't see a AR as a good first choice for HD in any environment.

and that's why... to me, it seems to be more of a cult then anything.

I wonder how many people have actually tried moving around their house, turning doorways and walls, going around furniture, all while swinging a AR of 35" in length? In most cases, the HD encounter with a bad guy will be at short ranges, 10 - 30 ft., not 100 ft shots. Do you really need a 3300 ft/sec projectile in that situation? And, if by chance the intruder gets the jump on you, good luck trying to get that barrel up for a clean shot in close contact.

A handgun, in the above situation, is more appropriate.

me neither, I prefer handguns for this or a shotgun

I'll add to this the revolver is the perfect hd platform.  change my mind

[Shepherd9 182]

Just now, RUTGERS95 said:

me neither, I prefer handguns for this or a shotgun

Again, handguns require far more practice and efficiency than a rifle. We're discussing a new shooter and what would be most effective at the time.

New shooters are terribly inaccurate with a handgun in the beginning, particularly under stress.

 

[RUTGERS95 774]

2 minutes ago, Shepherd9 said:

Again, handguns require far more practice and efficiency than a rifle. We're discussing a new shooter and what would be most effective at the time.

New shooters are terribly inaccurate with a handgun in the beginning, particularly under stress.

 

and you would be wrong.  New shooter, unfamiliar to firearms, not familiar with the stress of a hd situation and a litany of other things and you think the m4 platform is best?  lol   ok

revolver is easiest to teach, simplest to operate, easier to handle.

this debate, if it's even that, isn't even close.  You ever see an Army training sequence on m4 platform to new shooters?  ha

[Shepherd9 182]

1 minute ago, RUTGERS95 said:

and you would be wrong.  New shooter, unfamiliar to firearms, not familiar with the stress of a hd situation and a litany of other things and you think the m4 platform is best?  lol   ok

revolver is easiest to teach, simplest to operate, easier to handle.

this debate, if it's even that, isn't even close.  You ever see an Army training sequence on m4 platform to new shooters?  ha

While it may be your opinion that i'm wrong, that doesn't make it so.  I'm not the first to come to such conclusions.  Your new shooter in a HD situation likely won't hit the broad side of a barn with a revolver.

My wife took easily to handling an AR in and around the house as well as on the range and with far more accuracy advantages than a handgun.

To each their own.  

[RUTGERS95 774]

Just now, Shepherd9 said:

While it may be your opinion that i'm wrong, that doesn't make it so.  I'm not the first to come to such conclusions.  Your new shooter in a HD situation likely won't hit the broad side of a barn with a revolver.

My wife took easily to handling an AR in and around the house as well as on the range and with far more accuracy advantages than a handgun.

To each their own.  

I don't need to debate, Army training, LEO training, and history validates the 'complexity' of teaching the AR platform and it's nuances.  Hell, do you know the reason PD firearms don't have safeties?  A study done in the 80s, prior to the explosive use of Glock/striker fired handguns, cited 2 factors in police deaths in firefights that were not directly related to training; 1.removing of safety prior to engaging, 2, capacity.

Half the people on this board couldn't operate the safety under duress proficiently much less a newbie

Revolver

respectfully

[Shepherd9 182]

2 minutes ago, RUTGERS95 said:

respectfully

Always.

No debates needed.  Different opinion is all.

And, yes, safety operation needs to be learned, no doubt.

[Sniper 5,357]

5 minutes ago, Shepherd9 said:

My wife took easily to handling an AR in and around the house as well as on the range and with far more accuracy advantages than a handgun.

At what distance?

Shooting stationary at a range at 25 yards, and moving dynamically in your house in the dark with a target 5 yards away, are two completely different animals.

Go try it tonight at midnight with all the lights off, and see what's easier to acquire a target at short distances.

[Dooly 17]

If I may interject...although everyone is different with what they're comfortable with, I believe the order in which someone should learn how firearms work and how to physically operate are...

1. Revolvers with hammers

2. Hammerless/striker fired handguns

3. Pump action shotguns

4. Bolt/lever action rifles

5.  AR platform

6.  Mini gun

Safety and no safety awareness as well for all of the above. 

[Shepherd9 182]

15 minutes ago, Sniper said:

At what distance?

Shooting stationary at a range at 25 yards, and moving dynamically in your house in the dark with a target 5 yards away, are two completely different animals.

Go try it tonight at midnight with all the lights off, and see what's easier to acquire a target at short distances.

As mentioned in my post... this was practiced with her, excessively, in and around the house and in low light conditions as well as daytime.

Her preference is the AR.  My preference is the AR.  Striker fired handguns come second.  My shotguns are in the safe with no intention of being used in the home at this time.

She is not a novice, but still, imo she took to the AR quicker than handguns.  

And again, to each their own.  

 

 

[CAL. .30 M1 1,728]

1 hour ago, Bomber said:

No offense, but for SD better make that first shot count with a pump shotgun.

A determined assailant with a semi-auto handgun or AR could get off multiple rounds before you even got the second shell chambered. Multiple armed assailants, good luck.

Kyle Rittenhouse would probably be dead or talking funny right now had he been armed with a pump shotgun.

Why must we talk about that child that had no busniess being where he was at the time AR or not - please ....stop making him a poster boy, he should have been trying to get it on with his GF in lieu of playing army.

Tactics.........it is all about tactics - late at night if a bad guy or guys try to make it up my stairs to my bedroom, where my door opens to the landing and think they can advance though 12G fired slugs or 00BK have at it....  shotguns are devastating weapons in close quarters  - look to the trenches of WW1 - and when fired from some sort of concealment to an attacker.

 

Do you really think that you are going to be attacked by multiple assailants wielding AR15's?  If so you gotta ask what is your lifestyle that would even warrant that....granted home invasions happen - but bats, knives, HG's most likely - and when you shoot back they prolly will retreat and check their shorts....

 

1 hour ago, Shepherd9 said:

Respectfully disagree.  The AR platform is a proven, accurate, fast and effective rifle for home defense.  A semi-automatic rifle would be superior for someone new to firearms for a defensive situation.  And with the right ammunition (i.e. not green tips) "over penetration" concerns are on par with most other rounds.

A 12 ga shotgun can be quite effective in the right hands.  A pump action, just as much so, with the proper training and experience.  In a SHTF moment, cycling the weapon will not be instinctive as it is when you're out on a flat range.  Fine motor skills deteriorate under adrenaline.  

While an experienced individual can make very good use of a lever action 30 cal or a shotgun under many situations, a semi-auto rifle will often cover a much wider variety of shooters and situations.

Tactics and training - most of the would be warriors - will likely have frog brain, no motor skills for anything...... all included unless you have been on the two way range....  the concussive noise of a firearm firing - especially with the stupid type brakes people put on AR's will be enough in the dark and at night to dull the shooters senses to possibly make them ineffectual.  I wonder how many keep amplified shooting type headphones next to their beds.... 

I disagree with the idea that the AR rifle for a single user, is the end all and be all - it is a fad in my opinion - but that is ONLY my opinion....  However, if you can mass the rifle in a stack with folks that know what they are doing, that is a different animal all together.

For Jane and John Doe - not so much.

32 minutes ago, RUTGERS95 said:

me neither, I prefer handguns for this or a shotgun

I'll add to this the revolver is the perfect hd platform.  change my mind

Why would you want your mind changed??  A Smith 586 4 inch with 357's is an equalizer.... and brute force reliable as long as it has the -1 update... 

 

No matter what - we hope for the best - but when and if that time comes - unless you have a myriad of training you are going to be looking for new undies when it is all done if you survive. 

 

Shooting targets is not like shooting a living thing animal or human........

[Shepherd9 182]

8 minutes ago, Dooly said:

If I may interject...although everyone is different with what they're comfortable with, I believe the order in which someone should learn how firearms work and how to physically operate are...

1. Revolvers with hammers

2. Hammerless/striker fired handguns

3. Pump action shotguns

4. Bolt/lever action rifles

5.  AR platform

6.  Mini gun

Safety and no safety awareness as well for all of the above. 

In general, I agree somewhat. Though maybe a bolt or lever action before a hand gun.  That is how I was started.

Bolt action 

Lever action 

Handgun

AR

But this thread, to my understanding, was what someone was researching for both their first firearm purchase as well as their home defense application hence a different approach in my opinion. 

 

 

[Grapeshot 176]

I am firmly in the revolver for HD camp.  No safety to worry about, you pull the trigger and it goes bang. Load it up with .38 Critical Defense and you are good to go.

[Dooly 17]

That's right...everyone is different and comfort levels varies but in theory...in theory, if one jammed or malfunctioned in the hot zone, which firearm would be easier for the average shooter be able to diagnose, rectify and get a shot off quicker?  The AR or a revolver?

[Dooly 17]

3 minutes ago, Shepherd9 said:

In general, I agree somewhat. Though maybe a bolt or lever action before a hand gun.  That is how I was started.

Bolt action 

Lever action 

Handgun

AR

But this thread, to my understanding, was what someone was researching for both their first firearm purchase as well as their home defense application hence a different approach in my opinion. 

 

 

Reason for me putting lever/bolt after handgun is because handguns are generally more prevalent today in people's homes.  

It would be sad if a new user learned a bolt action first and next up was handguns but then a bad guy encounter occurred before getting to that next class.  =(

[Shepherd9 182]

Just now, Dooly said:

Reason for me putting lever/bolt after handgun is because handguns are generally more prevalent today in people's homes.  

It would be sad if a new user learned a bolt action first and next up was handguns but then a bad guy encounter occurred before getting to that next class.  =(

Agree.

But i had a lot of fun as a kid learning on a bolt action.  Given enough time to start people young it's a great way to begin.

 

[Dooly 17]

I agree for youths...long guns first but the list I meant was for adults. 

Thinking about it a little more, I'd probably put striker fired handguns with no manual safety first on the list...for adults.  

[Grapeshot 176]

If you are of a certain age group and started when you were young, you probably learned on a single shot bolt-action .22 with iron sights. I still think this is a great learning platform, and I still hunt occasionally with my first .22 (although the old eyes are starting to have trouble with iron sights). I think the shot discipline you learn with a single shot,  coupled with the need to be fairly close to your quarry with basic iron sights, provides you with a foundation that will stay with you for life. 

[Grapeshot 176]

Although now I went back and read the original post, a single-shot .22 is a poor choice for HD.

Back to the revolver.

[Bomber 298]

4 hours ago, Grapeshot said:

I am firmly in the revolver for HD camp.  No safety to worry about, you pull the trigger and it goes bang. 

A six shot revolver verses an assailant with possibly 11-18 rounds in a semi-auto?  What about multiple assailants?

Why put yourself at such a disadvantage??