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JJames

Why is it taking so long to get FID and Pistol Purchase permits?

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Hello,

I went to the NJ FARS website and completed an application for my Firearms ID and 2 pistol permits last year on 11/11/2020. As of 11/17/2020, my two character references responded and the local PD claims they now have everything on file (application, fingerprints, background check and proof of payment). I called the local Trenton PD around 12/15/2020 and the officer said they are backed up processing applications and to wait another 4 weeks. I called the local Trenton PD once again around 1/15/2021 and they said to wait longer. I asked how much longer? She really sounded like she didn’t want to answer my question. I asked her if she had to guess how much longer, what does she think. She said she really didn’t know, maybe another 4-6 weeks. What the friggin hell is going on? Is this normal to have to wait this long? Based on my last phone call to the local Trenton PD, that would put me at around 110 days in total, at the earliest, based on her guess of an additional 4-6 weeks longer. That’s roughly 3.5 months and that assuming they even call me by 3/1/2021. I used to live in PA and this all could have been done in one day. In fact, could have walked into a gun shop and within an hour, walk out with a rifle, handgun and ammo. This is beyond ridiculous! Does anyone think that maybe the Governor is intentionally delaying people from purchasing firearms? I had to go to PA to get fingerprinted because no one had appointments available in NJ last November and they hit me with an additional $50 to transfer my fingerprint records from PA to NJ. Thanks for any info you can provide. 

Best regards

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I would have to guess the city of Trenton Chief, of Police, Steve Budoinea is anti gun. You may want to reach out to him since he just took over the job in December and may not be aware people are waiting that long!

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Because in New Jersey adhering to the permit laws, and especially the 'shall be issued within 30 days' section, is at the discretion of law enforcement. The NJ Supreme Court said it was so. If they want to they can take their own sweet time. Some do, and some don't.

If you came from PA, I can't believe you didn't know this before you moved. I'm going the other way. And most firearm people I meet in PA go WHAT? when I tell them my other state is New Jersey. Then they tell me the horror stories from their NJ relatives or friends.

 

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1 hour ago, JJames said:

I asked her if she had to guess how much longer, what does she think. She said she really didn’t know, maybe another 4-6 weeks. What the friggin hell is going on? I

Welcome to the NEW Amerika..

I put in for 3 handgun permits, I already have the FID and fingerprints are on file.

I submitted on 11/18/2020. My two references responded back the same day with their emails.

On 12/3/2020 I got the email that the criminal background check was done.

A few days later, the PD called me to come in any pay the $6 fee, since the permits were all online now. I asked how long for approval, she didn't know.

Just got the email 2/3/2021 that the permits are ready. And I'm in a very 2A friendly town...

So, considering you're going through the whole process, with the mental history check and fingerprints, in a unfriendly 2A town, I'd say this time frame is typical.

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2 hours ago, Sniper said:

Welcome to the NEW Amerika..

I put in for 3 handgun permits, I already have the FID and fingerprints are on file.

I submitted on 11/18/2020. My two references responded back the same day with their emails.

On 12/3/2020 I got the email that the criminal background check was done.

A few days later, the PD called me to come in any pay the $6 fee, since the permits were all online now. I asked how long for approval, she didn't know.

Just got the email 2/3/2021 that the permits are ready. And I'm in a very 2A friendly town...

So, considering you're going through the whole process, with the mental history check and fingerprints, in a unfriendly 2A town, I'd say this time frame is typical.

 

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

Welcome to the NEW Amerika..

I put in for 3 handgun permits, I already have the FID and fingerprints are on file.

I submitted on 11/18/2020. My two references responded back the same day with their emails.

On 12/3/2020 I got the email that the criminal background check was done.

A few days later, the PD called me to come in any pay the $6 fee, since the permits were all online now. I asked how long for approval, she didn't know.

Just got the email 2/3/2021 that the permits are ready. And I'm in a very 2A friendly town...

So, considering you're going through the whole process, with the mental history check and fingerprints, in a unfriendly 2A town, I'd say this time frame is typical.

Thanks for the reply Sniper. Based on your experience, it sounds like I might be getting a call or email sometime this month. Fingers crossed. I’d like to go to the range and do some trap shooting with my father and he’s nearly 80. It’s one of the few times we actually get to have some quality father/son time and neither of us are getting any younger.

What is this about a mental history check? I don’t have any concerns in that regard. But I’m wondering if I maybe missed a step in the application or if there’s something further I need to provide as far as information. I saw nothing in regards to a mental history check during the application. I don’t even know what that would entail. I’ve never had any court ordered mental health evaluation needed nor have I ever admitted myself into any sort of mental health facility. I suppose they check medical history or medication history?

It sure does seem the town is very 2A unfriendly. When I’ve called to inquire about the status of my application, I felt like I was bothering them and they had no time to talk to me. Or maybe they are just so backed up that they get calls like mine all day every day. 

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59 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

Volume.  Applications are through the roof everywhere since the China virus, civil unrest and election.

Yes, that's certainly true and I should have mentioned it. Applications last year in NJ were up over 400%.

So you add a huge abnormal volume to an already lethargic system further hampered by virus restrictions and you get even larger delays.

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Not going out a limb to point out that the issue is your FID, not you permits.  While some are reporting long delays in getting permits, the FID delays are seem to be far longer and waits of three to six months were not unusual BEFORE the surge that started last year.  

Popping your request in just after the election wasn't the best timing.  I'm not saying that you had an option just that a few weeks before the election may not have left you in as long a line.  

I second the idea of reaching out to the chief's office.  I don't know if you assembly rep would be helpful or not.

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My town had a 500% increase I applied 11/4 then just got the email last week that I was approved for "additional" permits the lady said you were faster than others because you were already in the system...my girlfriend applied for a FID in the same town in JULY and still nothing...so new FID holders are definitely in the waiting game.  

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I'm waiting on 2 pistol purchase permits I applied for in September.  References and criminal background check completed the same week I submitted.  Delay is all with my local PD. 

I've been taking action.

Sent a certified letter to the Chief of Police in mid-January respectfully saying that I'm sure they have a lot to do, but the statute says 30 days and it's been 100+.   That at least prompted a call from the Firearms detective who related "800+ applications, we're doing August's now, will do yours when we get to Septembers"; he also asked me to send a paystub to verify employment (I changed employers since September), so I know now that the 30 day "clock" has started because he's now investigating my application. 

I calculated out 30 days from the date he contacted me and I'm prepping a municipal court filing for the next day after 30 days if the permits aren't ready by then.

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7 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

I'm waiting on 2 pistol purchase permits I applied for in September.  References and criminal background check completed the same week I submitted.  Delay is all with my local PD. 

I've been taking action.

Sent a certified letter to the Chief of Police in mid-January respectfully saying that I'm sure they have a lot to do, but the statute says 30 days and it's been 100+.   That at least prompted a call from the Firearms detective who related "800+ applications, we're doing August's now, will do yours when we get to Septembers"; he also asked me to send a paystub to verify employment (I changed employers since September), so I know now that the 30 day "clock" has started because he's now investigating my application. 

I calculated out 30 days from the date he contacted me and I'm prepping a municipal court filing for the next day after 30 days if the permits aren't ready by then.

Thanks for the reply DirtyDigs. Fantastic idea writing a letter and pointing out the statute that specifies 30 days and that they are not in compliance.  

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The 30 days in the statute is meaningless.  It's been over written by state courts.  When I once pointed that out to a detective investigating my FID years ago, he laughed at me.  The only time that I would bother to mention that is if I were arguing an appeal in federal court.  

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8 minutes ago, EdF said:

He asked for a pay stub to verify employment?  Really?  I've NEVER been asked about employment.  I don't believe that it has anything to do with anything.

Choosing not to fight this battle, but it's not uncommon for local PD to want to verify employment if you put an employer down on the app.   My current employer contracts with a company that charges a fee to verify employment.  The detective has no budget to pay an employment verification fee. Sending a paystub copy (with the pay/tax numbers redacted) was the most expedient way to get past this obstacle.

5 minutes ago, EdF said:

The 30 days in the statute is meaningless.  It's been over written by state courts.  When I once pointed that out to a detective investigating my FID years ago, he laughed at me.  The only time that I would bother to mention that is if I were arguing an appeal in federal court.  

30 days from time of submission of the application on FARS - yeah, generally ignored.  However 30 days once the *LOCAL* PD starts their investigation? Some courts are willing to make orders on based on that.

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10 minutes ago, EdF said:

He asked for a pay stub to verify employment?  Really?  I've NEVER been asked about employment.  I don't believe that it has anything to do with anything.

It doesn't, and it has no bearing on the decision. I would ignore it.

1 hour ago, EdF said:

I second the idea of reaching out to the chief's office. 

I did that when a change of address was taking too long. I wrote a really nice email to the chief, asking if he could look into it. Two days later, I got the call that they were ready. I wouldn't suggest mentioning the 30 day requirement. They don't care about that.

 

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Here's the "outline" of the letter I sent - Jay Factor authored this form letter originally, and he's heavily involved in NJ firearms law:

 

Quote
Chief _____,
 
I applied for X 2C:58-3 Permit(s) to Purchase a Handgun on MM/DD/YYY via the NJSP FARS system. According to the NJSP FARS system, my references completed their reference check email responses on MM/DD/YYY.
 
NJSA 2C:58-3f directs that "the licensing authority ... shall investigate ... and, unless good cause for the denial thereof appears, shall grant the permit or the identification card, or both, if application has been made therefore, within 30 days from the date of receipt of the application for residents of this State..."
 
At the time of this letter we are XX days from "receipt of the application."
 
I received an email from the NJSP FARS system on MM/DD/YYYY with a status update of "Criminal History Check completed".
The confirmation number for this status update is XXXXXXXXXXX.
 
My assumption is that your Firearms Officer(s) are quite busy with other duties, which is understandable and appreciated. However, at this point, I believe only the paper work of filling out the NJSP 671 Permit(s) is left to do.
 
I would appreciate if you would inquire with your Firearms Officer(s) and let me know the status of my permit(s) as soon as possible.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
 
Sincerely,

 

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24 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

Here's the "outline" of the letter I sent - Jay Factor authored this form letter originally, and he's heavily involved in NJ firearms law:

 

 

Very nice indeed. I may leave out the 30 day part. But we’ll written. Thank you. 

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On 2/5/2021 at 12:04 PM, DirtyDigz said:

I've been taking action.

Sent a certified letter to the Chief of Police in mid-January respectfully saying that I'm sure they have a lot to do, but the statute says 30 days and it's been 100+.   That at least prompted a call from the Firearms detective who related "800+ applications, we're doing August's now, will do yours when we get to Septembers"; he also asked me to send a paystub to verify employment.

They probably asked for the paystub BS because you sent that respectful certified letter.

Likely had a good chuckle about it after they got off the phone too. 

On PP applications I state self-employed or unemployed.

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On 2/5/2021 at 12:14 PM, JJames said:

Thanks for the reply DirtyDigs. Fantastic idea writing a letter and pointing out the statute that specifies 30 days and that they are not in compliance.  

As Sniper mentioned, don't waste your time quoting statues.

Want to write a letter, fine, keep it short and to the point: "I applied for an FID on XX. What is the status of my application"? 

 

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41 minutes ago, FDHog said:

Retired is better.:icon_mrgreen:

That works for me, every time!

38 minutes ago, Bomber said:

As Sniper mentioned, don't waste your time quoting statues.

Want to write a letter, fine, keep it short and to the point: "I applied for an FID on XX. What is the status of my application"? 

 

Yep..

The last thing you want to do is accuse a law enforcement office with not following the law... I don't think that will help. :pardon:

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8 hours ago, Bomber said:

They probably asked for the paystub BS because you sent that respectful certified letter.

....

On PP applications I state self-employed or unemployed.

They asked for a paystub in lieu of paying for an employment verification service on a prior application (with no letter) 2 years ago.

Incorrectly stating your employment could be prosecuted as lying on the application if the PD or prosecutor decides to pursue it.

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6 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

Incorrectly stating your employment could be prosecuted as lying on the application if the PD or prosecutor decides to pursue it.

Well, if you get prosecuted for that, you can turn around and sue them for not completing the process in 30 days... How's that?  :thankyou:

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8 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

Incorrectly stating your employment could be prosecuted as lying on the application if the PD or prosecutor decides to pursue it.

Not lying, depending on how business is going either one can be correct.

And frankly that has to be one of the worst, unjustified questions on the application IMO.

I can see that being a deal killer for a lot of people working at, or for, anti- 2nd left leaning employers.

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The employment question is inappropriate

i always listed my company name but gave my direct phone number; figured if I got the call I might be able to verify my own employment. Worst case I’d transfer the call to HR 

in 20 years, the police never called.  But some departments do. 

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4 hours ago, Bomber said:

I can see that being a deal killer for a lot of people working at, or for, anti- 2nd left leaning employers.

That's a feature, not a bug, as far as NJ is concerned. 

I was working for an employer with a very anti-RKBA stance when I first applied for my FID, and I was sweating the employment verification then.  I'm sure some people decide to forgo the whole thing based on that.

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3 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

That's a feature, not a bug, as far as NJ is concerned. 

I was working for an employer with a very anti-RKBA stance when I first applied for my FID, and I was sweating the employment verification then.  I'm sure some people decide to forgo the whole thing based on that.

Why is the question on the application at all?

If employment status isn't a factor for approval why ask for the info and why call the employer to verify?

Totally unjustifiable even by Leftist reasoning. 

 

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