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Mrs. Peel

Let's talk... fuel tanks!

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I love to crowd-source homeowner solutions on here! I have (2) somewhat-related conundrums all related to heating my house (home fuel oil, boiler, baseboard heat, btw) and I can't recall bringing this up previously (forgive me if I did, but the problem has since gotten more complicated anyway as you'll see...)

1) I own (4) 5-gallon diesel containers. They saved me a few times, especially when I first bought the house and was on a discount fuel service... and accidentally ran out! Now I'm with a full-service company, but nonetheless, I like knowing that in an emergency I can get some fuel in the tank, and even bleed/restart my boiler if need be. However, these cans are the WORST engineering I've ever seen!! I had one particularly horrible night years ago when my boiler ran out of fuel... and there I was, in freezing rain, in the dark (wee hours of the morning), standing next to my house trying to get diesel fuel into the tank. These bloody containers were big, awkward and heavy and would NOT flow smoothly no matter what I did... it was glug... glug... glug. Maddening. I was out there for a half-hour at least... slowly turning into a human popsicle. I was aching for 2 days! And more recently, I had a new oil tank installed (in a different location in my basement) and due to the slope of the yard the outside spigot now sits even higher than the last tank's spigot. So, I realize there's no way I could ever lift the fuel cans high enough to get them on the fuel pipe, even if the cans were only half-full...I simply don't have the strength... so now, it's a problem that "must" be addressed.  

2) I am also in the process of getting a portable generator at my house (one of the last items I'm checking off on my prepper list - YAY!!). I plan to buy several gas cans for that. But, it seems all fuel cans these days are of this same inefficient, new-fangled "no-spill" (and no release value) design as my diesel cans. I'm afraid of a repeat scene: standing out in howling winds and freezing temps, feeling bitter at each s-l-o-w "glug"... as I try to refill the generator. Seriously, perish the thought! 

When I researched this problem on YouTube, I found out that I am certainly not alone! There were TONS of videos of people BITCHING about the "new" fuel cans and giving various work-arounds. So, there are 2 types of products/solutions that I'm currently eyeballing: 

Battery-operated fuel transfer pumps -  there are multiple brands - Terapump, Harbor Freight, etc. I think this would be an excellent solution for my diesel containers. If the hose was long enough, I could even fill the tank from inside my basement - which would be super-nice! Has anyone used these? Is there a brand you recommend? Here's a link to one if you're not familiar with them:  https://www.amazon.com/TERA-PUMP-Portable-Battery-AutoStop/dp/B00WZX9W86/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=battery+powered+fuel+transfer+pump&qid=1614307764&sr=8-14 - now that my exterior intake pipe is higher, I think this has become a "must have" for the diesel. However, even though they say these are safe for gasoline, I do feel a bit worried about a potential battery spark so close to the gas fumes. Thoughts? Am I overly worried? That brings me to this next option...

E-Z Pour kit - because so many people hate the new fuel can designs, this company came up with a retrofit kit to make your "new" can pour as efficiently as the "old" cans. So, the other option (for the gas cans) is that I buy new cans, but retrofit them from the get-go. https://www.amazon.com/EZ-POUR-40051-Replacement-Spout-White/dp/B00YP3YTXM/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=e-z+nozzle+fuel+tank&qid=1614309285&sr=8-10 Seems crazy to retrofit a brand-new product!... But it is what is is. Has anyone tried these kits?  Are they good? 

Lastly, is there some other gadget I'm not aware of? I tried to find a foot pedal fuel transfer pump, for instance, but couldn't find one... maybe they don't exist? I'm looking for solutions that are simple, that work fast, that eradicate heavy lifting (esp'ly because I could be on slippery surfaces), but that are also highly unlikely to spark a fire. It would be nice if it was under 50 bucks, too, but price is not the driver. I'm more concerned about making these situations more workable. Your suggestions are most welcome! Thanks in advance.

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13 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I can get some fuel in the tank, and even bleed/restart my boiler

Peel, that you know how to do that, much less what it means.  Sexy. ;)

I'm sorry to say there is no good 5 gallon can solution since the leftards when all hippie on gasoline cans.  We run into the glug glug problem all the time filling mowers.  What we did was drilled air holes in the handles so air can get into the can as the liquid sucks the air out creating a vacuum.  Old fashioned cans used to have holes in them, there was usually a little yellow cap over a nipple somewhere at the top of the can, but they did away with those when the new and improved nozzles came along.  If we are in a hurry, we take the nozzle off and use a funnel.

Diesel has a higher viscosity than gasoline, so it's going to decant slower.

If you have diesel/heating oil already, look into diesel generators.  You don't have to get a giant one, but they are super expensive.  you won't have to worry about keeping fresh gasoline and you will already have a diesel reserve.

Lastly, if you are going the transfer pump rout, why not get a 55gallon drum and put it on wheels.

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Estate sales are great sources for old style fuel cans at give away prices.

Check out https://www.estatesales.net/NJ/Northern-New-Jersey for listings in your area.

Last estate sale I went to they had a bunch of them in the shed, I'm already well stocked so I didn't buy any.

I would suggest several 2.5 gal cans if you don't have the strength for the 5 gal. size.

 

 

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https://www.estatesales.net/NJ/Somerset/08873/2785848

Here is one; check out photo # 205, thats a 2.5 gal Rubbermaid can in the garage, if they have lawnmowers or other power equipment they almost always have gas cans as well.

Hit a few of these and you have more cans then you need and probably lots other stuff too. 

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How about an oil extractor pump? They suck motor oil out the top of your engines for some dumbass cars without drain plugs (looking at you, BMW...) or lazy mechanics. Enthusiast versions can be had with a hand pump or clips to use a car’s 12v

 

Some are quite cheap, you just might have to extend the lines to reach between a fuel can and your tank fill port

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Call the boy toy....I  mean pool boy.  Duh.
 

But seriously.  Maybe something like this?

Put the fuel container on a ladder (4 foot one) so it's off the ground.  I'm sure you could fine one with a longer hose if needed.  

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/tera-pump-trep01-2d-battery-powered-fuel-transfer-pump?ds_e=MICROSOFT&ds_c=Shop|Generic|AllProducts|High|SSCCatchAll&msclkid=1354f68ac56e1f3588cf96b3797cffde&gclid=1354f68ac56e1f3588cf96b3797cffde&gclsrc=3p.ds

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If I had to transfer fuel oil often I would definitely get something battery powered.  That said, I know that if I needed one only occasionally in an emergency...the batteries would be dead. I know this to be true. So count on it. I'd opt for a hand powered unit something like this one I found. 

 https://www.amazon.com/Koehler-Enterprises-RA990-Multi-Use-Transfer/dp/B0181EDCZ6/ref=psdc_15707731_t1_B00GW3QM4C?th=1

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Tractor Supply

30 gallons, hand crank.  It's a bit pricey at $500.00, but it's all that and a bag of chips.  Holds enough fuel to keep a genny going for 7 to 14 days depending on how big the genny is and how many hours you run it.

 

1350794?$470$

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gas-go-30-gallon-steel-ul-listed-caddy?cm_vc=-10005

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1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

They had the flip style and seal spout.

Don't quote me on this, but I think Jerry cans are already compliant because of the spring loaded spout.  The main issue with most gas cans, according to the tree huggers, is that many people leave the spout cap off and vapor escapes.  The little yellow vent caps always break off too. 

The whole idea with the new style spouts is that they self close and even have a vapor return tube.  In a perfect world, those spouts would not be a terrible idea, but they suck monkey dick.  They never work and are nearly impossible to operate without spilling gasoline, which defeats the purpose entirely.  Those dumb ass spouts have spilled more gas than the old style ones ever did.  Brilliant!   I bought a can two years ago that the spout actually worked well, but squirrels ruined it.  Those lil bastards love chomping up gas caps on mowers and cans.

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1 hour ago, SmittyMHS said:

yawanna? I just changed the tank on my '87 Buick if you do....lol

that couldn't have been fun.

 

 i've got my 78 futura sitting on the rollback waiting for me to have time to put the new fuel tank in it...........

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19 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

that couldn't have been fun.

 

 i've got my 78 futura sitting on the rollback waiting for me to have time to put the new fuel tank in it...........

It's starting to be a money pit now. Labor of love I guess. Have fun. 

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fuel tank?
Find the metal , 5 gallon kind
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-1850R/Safety-Storage/Gas-Can-Type-I-Red-5-Gallon?pricode=WA9292&gadtype=pla&id=H-1850R&gclid=CjwKCAiAm-2BBhANEiwAe7eyFOVWThwB5BkoPS7jlom2HrtVazQHJrnGtoHWvZ9iJ_kjwwxI8hndnRoCeiYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
or, drill a hole in the tank opposite the nozzle to allow air in, you must plug this when storing the fuel, but it will help with the glug gluging
the ezpour kit is basically a piece of plastic tubing that replaces the spout/nozzle
if you buy that kit, you only need to buy one, and transfer it to gas cans as you use them

 

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5 hours ago, SmittyMHS said:

It's starting to be a money pit now. Labor of love I guess. Have fun. 

in my mind, the only way a 87 buick is worth a bunch of effort is if it's a grand national....otherwise, pull the ejection lever......

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My guess is you will need a transfer pump for your fuel oil since it is up high, A vent in the tank is all you need to cure the Glug Glug. The ez pour kits are great to repair new or old jerry jugs. I like the Rigid spout better than the flex spout the flex spout is nice but large. 

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Don’t know about a lot of this but for portable gen I am looking at dual fuel to replace my smaller Predator gas gen.

Propane has a much longer shelf life than gas, most of the time the generator is listed at longer run times to a 20lb gas can than the onboard gas tanks on the generator and it’s a cleaner fuel as far as no spills, no smoke, less fumes, etc. You do lose some wattage going with propane but to me that 5 % loss is more than covered by the benefits.

Going dual or tri fuel you also get the option to use whatever is available as well and some even auto-sense the fuel so you can have a tank of gas and a tank of propane attached and when propane runs out, it starts to pull gas to keep going. You could also chain a couple of propane tanks with a tank switch to double the run time between tank swaps. 

Going for an inverter type has some benefits too in noise. Usually you can’t do whole home from a single unit with inverter gens ( though some new ones are 9000w or so) but you usually get the option to buy two smaller ones and interlink them. This gives the option to buy one 4000w now and another at a later time when money permits. 

… something to think about if you are buying a new generator.

-Jim

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1 hour ago, JimB1 said:

Don’t know about a lot of this but for portable gen I am looking at dual fuel to replace my smaller Predator gas gen.

Propane has a much longer shelf life than gas, most of the time the generator is listed at longer run times to a 20lb gas can than the onboard gas tanks on the generator and it’s a cleaner fuel as far as no spills, no smoke, less fumes, etc. You do lose some wattage going with propane but to me that 5 % loss is more than covered by the benefits.

Going dual or tri fuel you also get the option to use whatever is available as well and some even auto-sense the fuel so you can have a tank of gas and a tank of propane attached and when propane runs out, it starts to pull gas to keep going. You could also chain a couple of propane tanks with a tank switch to double the run time between tank swaps. 

Going for an inverter type has some benefits too in noise. Usually you can’t do whole home from a single unit with inverter gens ( though some new ones are 9000w or so) but you usually get the option to buy two smaller ones and interlink them. This gives the option to buy one 4000w now and another at a later time when money permits. 

… something to think about if you are buying a new generator.

-Jim

I agree 100%. We talked about this awhile back in another post. Do a search. That 5% loss is power @ the engine not wattage. A generator puts out full power @1600 rpms. It doesn't care what the fuel is to do that. You might not see that 5% loss unless you've topped out your genset. Too big is better then not big enough.:D

 BTW.. Tractor Supply sells 100lb tanks. 20lbers are for BBQs. And there's a guy on Craigs list that will convert you genset to LP or NG if you're not so inclined.

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3 hours ago, SmittyMHS said:

I agree 100%. We talked about this awhile back in another post. Do a search. That 5% loss is power @ the engine not wattage. A generator puts out full power @1600 rpms. It doesn't care what the fuel is to do that. You might not see that 5% loss unless you've topped out your genset. Too big is better then not big enough.:D

 BTW.. Tractor Supply sells 100lb tanks. 20lbers are for BBQs. And there's a guy on Craigs list that will convert you genset to LP or NG if you're not so inclined.

Yeah but 20lbs are easy to move and swapped out at every hardware store and some grocery stores so easier overall than 100lb tanks. I have 40 lb tanks on my RV and tend to swap them out with 20lb all the time because it's easier to carry and get them at home depot or wherever then going to get the larger tanks filled.

-Jim

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18 minutes ago, JimB1 said:

Yeah but 20lbs are easy to move and swapped out at every hardware store and some grocery stores so easier overall than 100lb tanks. I have 40 lb tanks on my RV and tend to swap them out with 20lb all the time because it's easier to carry and get them at home depot or wherever then going to get the larger tanks filled.

I agree. My generator is propane, for all the reasons you mentioned, and has a rack on it that holds 20 lb tanks. I bought it because I knew 20 lb tanks are all over the place. In the SHTF situation, just about every backyard has a 20 lb tank attached to their grill, so it would be easy to "harvest" tanks, if need be...

 Plus, propane never goes bad or stale, and doesn't foul the carb.

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13 hours ago, Sniper said:

I agree. My generator is propane, for all the reasons you mentioned, and has a rack on it that holds 20 lb tanks. I bought it because I knew 20 lb tanks are all over the place. In the SHTF situation, just about every backyard has a 20 lb tank attached to their grill, so it would be easy to "harvest" tanks, if need be...

 Plus, propane never goes bad or stale, and doesn't foul the carb.

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I'm sorry...I tend to think long term SHTF type scenarios. Like 3 day snow storms where you can't get out to get fuel. Or a 100 year rain event. Of course that will never happen so there's that.

 A 100 lb. tank really doesn't take up much more space then a 20 lb BBQ tank. If I didn't have NG I'd have at least one. I still keep 10 gals of gas around that I swap out every season. Just in case nothing happens. But everyone needs to do what they feel comfortable with. I know I wouldn't be comfortable finding someone trying to "harvesting" one of my BBQ tanks. They might not be either.

Just sayin' 

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36 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

I know I wouldn't be comfortable finding someone trying to "harvesting" one of my BBQ tanks. They might not be either.

In a SHTF situation, anything goes... Ever hear of "Midnight Auto Parts".

37 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

A 100 lb. tank really doesn't take up much more space then a 20 lb BBQ tank.

That's true, but in a grid down situation, who's coming to refill it? That's what makes the 20 lb more realistic, you can find them anywhere.

39 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

Like 3 day snow storms where you can't get out to get fuel. Or a 100 year rain event. Of course that will never happen so there's that.

Remember Sandy, we were without power 8 days... many people burned through their fuel storage in a few days, then what...

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5 minutes ago, Sniper said:

In a SHTF situation, anything goes... Ever hear of "Midnight Auto Parts".

That's true, but in a grid down situation, who's coming to refill it? That's what makes the 20 lb more realistic, you can find them anywhere.

Remember Sandy, we were without power 8 days... many people burned through their fuel storage in a few days, then what...

Ever hear a 12ga. ? You might not. They say you don't hear the shot that gets you. Counting on sneaking into your neighbors backyard to steal their BBQ tank isn't what I'd call a good plan. Not at my house for sure. 

Anyway...Lets all hope that we never have to worry much about that SHTF situation anytime soon. or ever.

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16 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

Ever hear a 12ga. ? You might not. They say you don't hear the shot that gets you. Counting on sneaking into your neighbors backyard to steal their BBQ tank isn't what I'd call a good plan. Not at my house for sure. 

You're going to worry about a simple shotgun, when your kids are freezing, your cell phones are dead and everything in your fridge is defrosted?

Just make sure to note who in your neighborhood is a Liberal, and go get their tanks. They don't have any guns.

17 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

Anyway...Lets all hope that we never have to worry much about that SHTF situation anytime soon. or ever.

Just remember, the Zombies eat the weak ones first.

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32 minutes ago, Sniper said:

many people burned through their fuel storage in a few days, then what...

They got in their cars and drove to south Jerz, or went north, or west.

Some gas stations rented generators that were trailered in, the Speedway near me was back in business in two days.  After the storm, many gas stations had massive gensets permanently installed.

41 minutes ago, Sniper said:

In a SHTF situation, anything goes... Ever hear of "Midnight Auto Parts".

That is a fabulous way to become a contestant on the room temperature challenge show.

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5 minutes ago, Sniper said:

You're going to worry about a simple shotgun, when your kids are freezing, your cell phones are dead and everything in your fridge is defrosted?

Just make sure to note who in your neighborhood is a Liberal, and go get their tanks. They don't have any guns.

Just remember, the Zombies eat the weak ones first.

Point well taken! But I don't think we have a single Prius in the whole neighborhood. 

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51 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

They got in their cars and drove to south Jerz, or went north, or west.

So, they drove to Pittsburgh to get fuel?

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52 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Some gas stations rented generators that were trailered in, the Speedway near me was back in business in two days.  After the storm, many gas stations had massive gensets permanently installed.

So, that happened with most stations a few days after the storm hit?  :facepalm:

 

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