So we can choose 1 of 5 equally evil features?

[TrentTorrent 0]

My apologies for the long post. 

Hi everyone, it’s great to join you in this community as I venture into building my first AR here in Jersey. I’ve had many questions satisfied along the way, but one keeps me running in circles. Hopefully some of you can shed some light on this topic...

For reference once again, here’s the law on what constitutes an assault rifle in NJ:
A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:
(1) A folding or telescoping stock;
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(3) A bayonet mount;
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash
suppressor; and
(5) A grenade launcher;

Here’s my situation:

Before our rifles with detachable magazines can be considered illegal, we are allowed 1 of these 5 features. All these features are listed together and are of equal legality as long as ONLY ONE is present on the rifle. With this in mind, I am working on an 18” precision build which I intend to use primarily at both, outdoor Pennsylvania ranges and indoor NJ ranges. I’d need to switch from a comp/brake to a linear comp when shooting indoors in NJ, so permanently affixing a muzzle device on my barrel wouldn’t be the best option. My buddy in PA would have a pistol grip I can install out there, this way I am not in possession of, nor travel with parts to create an assault weapon within NJ - keeping all within the law. 

So naturally, the question here is - keeping the threaded muzzle as the one legally present feature on my rifle, what can I install in the pistol grip portion of the rifle that would not be considered a pistol grip according to NJ law? The law defines a pistol grip as “a well defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously below the action of the weapon, and which permits the firearm to be held and fired with one hand.”

The one idea I have is to install a Sparrow Dynamics grip along with a Magpul fixed stock which makes it impossible to grasp with one hand - pictured below is the stock with the adapter for a sling plate, I’d keep the straight adapter on instead (see image w red arrow) which does not allow a notch for the possible slip of a thumb around the grip. 

And yes, I am willing to sacrifice my shooting comfort in NJ to enjoy real freedom in PA. 

Please let your wisdom and opinions rip fellas, and thank you in advance. God bless.

 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

Keep the pistol grip.  You don't need anything at the muzzle.

[siderman 1,137]

https://www.arspur.com/

My suggestions if you really want to lose the grip.

[TrentTorrent 0]

1 hour ago, siderman said:

https://www.arspur.com/

My suggestions if you really want to lose the grip.

Thank you siderman! Just what I’ve been imagining and not finding. It seems to fully satisfy the law. Have you ever used one yourself?

[silverado427 10,716]

Why do you need to switch to a linear comp indoors. 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

7 hours ago, TrentTorrent said:

I’d need to switch from a comp/brake to a linear comp when shooting indoors in NJ, so permanently affixing a muzzle device on my barrel wouldn’t be the best option.

Why?  Find a good comp and stick with it - get it pinned on.  So what if it's blasty indoors?  If you're shooting indoors with an AR you're only really doing function check/sighting in - nothing precision.  

Those stubby "grips" or whatever aren't really considered as not a Pistol grip in NJ.  Nothing saying they aren't really - there's no letters from NJSP or anyone saying it's not a PG.  

If you're really worried about shooting precision, a good pistol grip is definitely key.  You want a good secure grip on the gun while you're trying to make a shot.  

[ronhonda 86]

36 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Why?  Find a good comp and stick with it - get it pinned on.  So what if it's blasty indoors?  If you're shooting indoors with an AR you're only really doing function check/sighting in - nothing precision.  

Those stubby "grips" or whatever aren't really considered as not a Pistol grip in NJ.  Nothing saying they aren't really - there's no letters from NJSP or anyone saying it's not a PG.  

If you're really worried about shooting precision, a good pistol grip is definitely key.  You want a good secure grip on the gun while you're trying to make a shot.  

this.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Why are you making it harder for no real return?

Are you really timing your muzzle device every time you remove and install it? New crush washer/shims with each installation? You are torquing it properly so you don’t damage the muzzle of the actual barrel? That’s crazy.

Put whichever device will let you use the rifle more often on the rifle and make it permanent. If there is a prohibition at the range you frequent that says you have to have a linear Comp, just put the linear Comp on and call It a day - Or, go with no muzzle device and have the barrel crowned.

Then dial-in your interface with the rifle. Install a proper stock for precision shooting (look at an A2 or even a PRS if you are planning on shooting an 18” precision gun) not a Magpul fixed carbine stock - which has a length of pull optimized for shooting while standing or moving. Then add a real grip that will let you properly shoot your rifle.

Having a consistent grip and appropriate stock placement is going to do much more for your precision than which muzzle device you have on the end of your gun.  

If you keep switching things you’ll never improve.

[10X 3,296]

6 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Keep the pistol grip.  You don't need anything at the muzzle.

Opt for the grenade launcher.  Go big or go home.

[Mr.Stu 1,919]

Here is the answer to your quest.

https://shopusa.matadorarms.com/The-Stinger_p_50.html

It is a brake with a detachable shell that will direct the muzzle blast forward when you are at an indoor range.

Yes, there is a threaded part to attach the shell. However, threads generally are not illegal. Only a "threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor" is illegal.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

9 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Here is the answer to your quest.

https://shopusa.matadorarms.com/The-Stinger_p_50.html

It is a brake with a detachable shell that will direct the muzzle blast forward when you are at an indoor range.

Yes, there is a threaded part to attach the shell. However, threads generally are not illegal. Only a "threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor" is illegal.

Generally scares me!  I'm thinking that it also may be easy to find an oil filter to fit the threads on that brake.  There are some with a  half twist or key lock so no threads are exposed.

[Mr.Stu 1,919]

1 minute ago, JohnnyB said:

Generally scares me!  I'm thinking that it also may be easy to find an oil filter to fit the threads on that brake.  There are some with a  half twist or key lock so no threads are exposed.

Let me rephrase.

There is no law that prohibits all threaded barrels. Only a "threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor" is illegal.

[High Exposure 5,664]

34 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Here is the answer to your quest.

https://shopusa.matadorarms.com/The-Stinger_p_50.html

It is a brake with a detachable shell that will direct the muzzle blast forward when you are at an indoor range.

Yes, there is a threaded part to attach the shell. However, threads generally are not illegal. Only a "threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor" is illegal.

When a muzzle device is permanently attached to a barrel, the device becomes part of the barrel, that’s how, under fed law, a permanently attached device can count for the last 1.5” when building a 14.5” barrel Into a 16” barrel. Threads on a permanently attached muzzle device constitutes a threaded barrel.

Surefire (along with a few other companies - Griffin and Strike come to mind) make these “blast diffuser/deflector” devices as well, only without threads. I have the Surefire version, they call it the Warden - Works as advertised sending all the blast downrange at the cost of increased felt recoil (subjective) and decreased braking action (also subjective) from the SFMB556  permanently attached to the end of my barrel alone - there is no free lunch. The good part is, it attaches with friction and not threads identical to their suppressor attachments, so there are no issues with threaded barrels.

15 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Let me rephrase.

There is no law that prohibits all threaded barrels. Only a "threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor" is illegal.

Those threads on the outside of muzzle devices are exactly for the attaching of flash suppressors - unless it is a proprietary thread geometry that you will have to prove after you are in trouble, likely at great cost in money, time, and aggravation.

[TrentTorrent 0]

1 hour ago, silverado427 said:

Why do you need to switch to a linear comp indoors. 

Linear, or a thread protector - for reduced concussive effect compared to a comp - my wife and kids would appreciate it over any recoil reduction (they handle recoil well, but my wife’s ears have always been painfully sensitive). 

[TrentTorrent 0]

45 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Here is the answer to your quest.

https://shopusa.matadorarms.com/The-Stinger_p_50.html

It is a brake with a detachable shell that will direct the muzzle blast forward when you are at an indoor range.

Yes, there is a threaded part to attach the shell. However, threads generally are not illegal. Only a "threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor" is illegal.

Now this looks like the way to go. Solves my issue and I can keep the pistol grip on. Thank you Mr. Stu. 

[Scorpio64 5,154]

1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

 Or, go with no muzzle device and have the barrel crowned.

That's exactly what I did with my SPR.  Bought a threaded match barrel with an 11 deg target crown and put a .25" proud thread protector on it to keep the crown from getting buggered up .  I don't rapid fire and I don't shoot at night so flash hider nor brake were necessary.

[TrentTorrent 0]

34 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Generally scares me!  I'm thinking that it also may be easy to find an oil filter to fit the threads on that brake.  There are some with a  half twist or key lock so no threads are exposed.

I’m looking at a griffin right now, looks like the shield goes on with some other kind of mechanism that’s not threads. 

[Mr.Stu 1,919]

3 minutes ago, TrentTorrent said:

Now this looks like the way to go. Solves my issue and I can keep the pistol grip on. Thank you Mr. Stu. 

Given the concerns voiced by @High Exposure and @JohnnyB it may be worth trying to find one where the shell attaches via some means other than threads.

I do not think there is a flash suppressor on the market that would have the same threads as the outside of the Stinger, but no threads at all would clearly be safer legal ground and future-proof too.

 

[JohnnyB 4,325]

4 minutes ago, TrentTorrent said:

Now this looks like the way to go. Solves my issue and I can keep the pistol grip on. Thank you Mr. Stu. 

@High Exposure just said, "Those threads on the outside of muzzle devices are exactly for the attaching of flash suppressors - unless it is a proprietary thread geometry that you will have to prove after you are in trouble, likely at great cost in money, time, and aggravation."

[TrentTorrent 0]

Finding como/blast shield combos that work without threads. 

 

[TrentTorrent 0]

All your replies have been very helpful. Thank you very much folks. God Bless!

[JohnnyB 4,325]

4 minutes ago, TrentTorrent said:

All your replies have been very helpful. Thank you very much folks. God Bless!

This one was brought up as a good legal option.  https://www.opticsplanet.com/surefire-warden-blast-regulator.html

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Look at the VG6 Gamma muzzle brake with the VG6 CAGE.  VG6 Gamma is a great brake and the CAGE device bolts on and reduces the side blast and concussion.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

Here is a brake that will pair with the Warden above. https://www.opticsplanet.com/surefire-muzzle-brake-suppressor-adapter-5-56mm-m16-ar-1-2-28-threads-sfmb-556-1.html

[High Exposure 5,664]

51 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Here is a brake that will pair with the Warden above. https://www.opticsplanet.com/surefire-muzzle-brake-suppressor-adapter-5-56mm-m16-ar-1-2-28-threads-sfmb-556-1.html

That’s the brake I have on a few rifles. Works very well keeping the muzzle Flat when shooting fast.

Then I have one Warden, that @JohnnyB linked to above, and I can install on any of the rifles with that MB556 device.

I only use the Warden if I am shooting/training in a team environment to keep my muzzle blast away from my teammates where it can be distracting or cause injury.

[TrentTorrent 0]

2 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

Generally scares me!  I'm thinking that it also may be easy to find an oil filter to fit the threads on that brake.  There are some with a  half twist or key lock so no threads are exposed.

 

2 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

@High Exposure just said, "Those threads on the outside of muzzle devices are exactly for the attaching of flash suppressors - unless it is a proprietary thread geometry that you will have to prove after you are in trouble, likely at great cost in money, time, and aggravation."

 

22 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

That’s the brake I have on a few rifles. Works very well keeping the muzzle Flat when shooting fast.

Then I have one Warden, that @JohnnyB linked to above, and I can install on any of the rifles with that MB556 device.

I only use the Warden if I am shooting/training in a team environment to keep my muzzle blast away from my teammates where it can be distracting or cause injury.

Yeah I’m pretty set on this surefire combo, pricey but seems worth it.