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axeman_g

J&J Gunworks Bad Experience

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Right up front, this issue is a result of me not using my purchase power and walking away. But I was not being patient, I wanted my new H&K.

Purchased an H&K USPC .40 here on forum. Seller mentions  J&J Gunworks and wanted to transfer through there. I agreed, having never used them before or even know of their existence. Its not to far from me in Cherry Hill, about 20 mins. We met up there and did paperwork on Sat morning. First I asked about some .223 ammo he had in boxes, he has about a dozen unopened 1000rd boxes. Told me he would sell me 5 boxes of 20 max and price was $100. That's a little steep, understatement, so I passed. I then asked for his Transfer fee..... $85 plus NICS $15 plus tax.!!!!   I left my gun there while I awaited NICS. I should have pulled it. 

NICS is in, I asked again for his transfer fee... he quotes me $103 again, I again stated that it was too high.  I went back today to get the H&K, expressed my displeasure with the price and cited numerous other FFLs within 30 minutes of me that where 50% less. He smirked and said that "I should have gone to them." Then I look at my receipt, 3% Credit Card Fee added. 

Never again... and I suggest you dont go either. This guy is what is wrong with the firearms community right now.

 

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1 hour ago, axeman_g said:

plus NICS $18 plus tax.!!!! 

Did NICS fee go up?  If not, I think charging more than the mandated $15 is not allowed.  Dunno, haven't bought anything in a while.  I know the $3 is trivial compared to the buggering he gave you , but you could make his life just a tiny bit difficult if you reported him.

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4 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Did NICS fee go up?  If not, I think charging more than the mandated $15 is not allowed.  Dunno, haven't bought anything in a while.  I know the $3 is trivial compared to the buggering he gave you , but you could make his life just a tiny bit difficult if you reported him.

Darnit... Fat fingered it. Fixed

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4 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Crap.  That would have been sweet if you could have stuck it back to him.  I'd be pissed at whomever recommended that shitbag.  Maybe let us know so we know not to buy from them.  Their reputation is in the shitter now.

Not my intention at all. Not sellers fault in any way. He is not responsible and I would prefer he be left out of this.

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4 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

Point taken.  But let this be a lesson, always call the FFL and ask about fees.

No, c'mon....  it is perfectly reasonable to walk into a place of business, start a transaction, and then after it is all started .....  only then ask about how much said transaction will be, and complain abt it.

Then, doubly complain - and get upset by a snarky comment and besmirch someone on a public forum - 'cause i feel i paid to much'.

:)

 

Why is it gun owners feel that everyone has to drop their drawers on pricing just because its guns or ammo?

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Forgive me for not jumping in on this earlier, I’m out of town at the moment. 
 

I am the seller, and I had recommended J&J Gunworks. 
He is local to me, and I have bought 2 firearms through him before. His transfer fee then was $45, and I didn’t think it was too unreasonable. Last one I bought was a shotgun in Nov 2019. 
Frankly, I was pretty taken aback when I heard what J&J was charging for the transfer this time. Had I known he had doubled his transfer fee, I wouldn’t have recommended him. That’s ridiculous.

I’d have to go back and check my purchase records, I don’t know if he charged me a 3% fee for a credit card. 
 

The ammo thing, well honestly, I kind of get it. He doesn’t have much, and he wants to be able to sell it to people purchasing firearms from him. 
To me, that’s a reasonable point. 
 

@axeman_g, I’ll reach out to you when I get back in town. This never sat right with me. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

No, c'mon....  it is perfectly reasonable to walk into a place of business, start a transaction, and then after it is all started .....  only then ask about how much said transaction will be, and complain abt it.

Then, doubly complain - and get upset by a snarky comment and besmirch someone on a public forum - 'cause i feel i paid to much'.

:)

 

Why is it gun owners feel that everyone has to drop their drawers on pricing just because its guns or ammo?

As I said, this issue was of my own making by NOT walking away. Now, is it wrong of me to share the overly expensive fees, prices, non advertised CC fee and snarky attitude?

Do you pay full, high or exorbitant prices for everything you purchase? 

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13 hours ago, axeman_g said:

Right up front, this issue is a result of me not using my purchase power and walking away. But I was not being patient, I wanted my new H&K.

Purchased an H&K USPC .40 here on forum. Seller mentions  J&J Gunworks and wanted to transfer through there. I agreed, having never used them before or even know of their existence. Its not to far from me in Cherry Hill, about 20 mins. We met up there and did paperwork on Sat morning. First I asked about some .223 ammo he had in boxes, he has about a dozen unopened 1000rd boxes. Told me he would sell me 5 boxes of 20 max and price was $100. That's a little steep, understatement, so I passed. I then asked for his Transfer fee..... $85 plus NICS $15 plus tax.!!!!   I left my gun there while I awaited NICS. I should have pulled it. 

NICS is in, I asked again for his transfer fee... he quotes me $103 again, I again stated that it was too high.  I went back today to get the H&K, expressed my displeasure with the price and cited numerous other FFLs within 30 minutes of me that where 50% less. He smirked and said that "I should have gone to them." Then I look at my receipt, 3% Credit Card Fee added. 

Never again... and I suggest you dont go either. This guy is what is wrong with the firearms community right now.

 

i wanted to buy a shottie from them. they're only about 4 minutes from my house. i messaged them on farcebook, since that's where i saw the shottie. never got a response.

 regarding the extra credit card charge.....i wouldn't expect to see that if the fee was already high.....but i know quite a few business's are doing that. my foot doc has been doing it for a few years, ever since the cc companies started raising their prices that they charge us. i almost feel like i'm the only one not adding that extra fee.......

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I don't see an issue with the OP here. He stated up front he knew he was ultimately responsible and is just sharing his experience. 

This also serves as a good PSA for the many, many new owners or soon to be new owners we have here. Just like any other business, some FFL are more in line with the prices in the market and want repeat business. Others will bleed the public for every cent they can. 

As always, caveat emptor. 

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1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

as someone else said........i thought it was illegal to charge more than the 15 buck nics?

Ottomanelli's (attached to Gun For Hire) has always charged $17.

If you ask about it they just shrug and tell you to go somewhere else.

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59 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

Ottomanelli's (attached to Gun For Hire)

If you ask about it they just shrug and tell you to go somewhere else.

That's too bad.  I was thinking about visiting @gunforhire soon, and have recommended them.  Won't be doing that anymore.  I'll take their smarmy advice and go elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said:

That's too bad.  I was thinking about visiting @gunforhire soon, and have recommended them.  Won't be doing that anymore.  I'll take their smarmy advice and go elsewhere.

For a small shop they have a decent inventory, and there are a few guys working there who are very nice, but it's definitely NOT a "local" gun shop.  Prices are full MSRP (or above) on everything, and their transfer fees are close to $100.

With that said, from a business perspective I can understand why they're so expensive/exclusive.

They're in reasonable proximity to NYC and they get a MASSIVE amount of traffic from Gun for Hire, so most of the people stopping in have deep pockets and are anxious to buy toys to shoot.

I personally can't afford to do business there, but i know plenty of people who regularly do.

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1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said:

That's too bad.  I was thinking about visiting @gunforhire soon, and have recommended them.  Won't be doing that anymore.  I'll take their smarmy advice and go elsewhere.

We do not sell guns at the range. We only do transfers for members of the range and we only charge the illegal NICS fee. Two separate businesses. Anthony 

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4 hours ago, axeman_g said:

As I said, this issue was of my own making by NOT walking away. Now, is it wrong of me to share the overly expensive fees, prices, non advertised CC fee and snarky attitude?

Do you pay full, high or exorbitant prices for everything you purchase? 

You are missing my point - the market will set the prices - it always has and always will.  Sadly this is one side of a story, there is the other and then the truth.  :)

What is the "right" price for a transfer?  Think about this.

Brink and Mortar, with lights, heat, rent insurance licensing fees etc. - that = $$$

Then there is time for paperwork, organizing paperwork, sorting it, keeping records and also sitting through ATF audits that = time which = $$$

 

Now, if you are a one off walk in transfer guy - sure why not charge what you can - and if you get it great - if not, as an owner maybe he is more concerned taking care of his repeat customers that do more than just transfers....

 

So look at time - and given the delays with NICS lately, you need to come in for two visits - 

 

Let's say it takes him 1 hour in total to process this transaction end to end - that has to cover his time, electric and all the other incidentals as needed to keep a brick and mortar open - *IN* a state that is not gun friendly.

 

My time is billed at $ 275.00 per hour.......  what is your rate for your time - not including anything else....??

 

While it is higher than most - there are many things in running a business to support doing a transfer and it is not just abt the NICS check.

I do not like to pay high prices or exorbitant prices - but, if that is what the market bears in the area, expect to have to pay it.

The point being, there are many other mitigating factors that drive prices and possibly the sarcasm you received.

 

I sat with a client the other day saying that my contractual agreement with them and their organization for my work pre-COVID at $ 14,500 was high now, as their membership is down 25% for the synagogue - oh that's a shame, you contracted for the work, the work is 90% done - you do not get to go back - maybe you should have negotiated better at the start....  :)

 

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1 hour ago, gunforhire said:

Two separate businesses. Anthony

So GFH and Otto's are not related in any way.  No common interests, ownership or business dealings.  I ask this because I've been to ranges with gun stores inside where the two are operated separately but have common connections.  Bottom line, is Otto's associated with GFH in any way shape or form?

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7 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

So GFH and Otto's are not related in any way.  No common interests, ownership or business dealings.  I ask this because I've been to ranges with gun stores inside where the two are operated separately but have common connections.  Bottom line, is Otto's associated with GFH in any way shape or form?

Two separate FFLs we both pay the same landlord who owns the property. Zero connections.

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Well . . . That sucks and thanks for warning us . . . I'm in Cherry Hill as well but haven't been there.  

But, you had the option of contacting them before setting up to do the transfer there and asking about the price.  This is why I TRY to use the same few shops where I already know people.  Once the gun is left there, you don't have a lot of options.

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5 hours ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

" I sat with a client the other day saying that my contractual agreement with them and their organization for my work pre-COVID at $ 14,500 was high now, as their membership is down 25% for the synagogue - oh that's a shame, you contracted for the work, the work is 90% done - you do not get to go back - maybe you should have negotiated better at the start....  :)"

I read this as anti semitic. Why mention synagogue? Are you saying you beat someone that was trying to negotiate, a person that might have a reputation of being tight? Who cares about your anecdote about your contract. You are apparently a much better business person then everyone else. The other thing I get from this is you probably have very high prices for your work in today's climate and you are happy with that and feel good with the justification. Good for you. 

This was not about you, my post was about another business and I wished to share my experience and lesson learned. Additionally I don't recall asking for your deep thoughts on the matter.

 

 

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4 hours ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

You are missing my point - the market will set the prices - it always has and always will.  Sadly this is one side of a story, there is the other and then the truth.  :)

What is the "right" price for a transfer?  Think about this.

Brink and Mortar, with lights, heat, rent insurance licensing fees etc. - that = $$$

Then there is time for paperwork, organizing paperwork, sorting it, keeping records and also sitting through ATF audits that = time which = $$$

 

Now, if you are a one off walk in transfer guy - sure why not charge what you can - and if you get it great - if not, as an owner maybe he is more concerned taking care of his repeat customers that do more than just transfers....

 

So look at time - and given the delays with NICS lately, you need to come in for two visits - 

 

Let's say it takes him 1 hour in total to process this transaction end to end - that has to cover his time, electric and all the other incidentals as needed to keep a brick and mortar open - *IN* a state that is not gun friendly.

 

My time is billed at $ 275.00 per hour.......  what is your rate for your time - not including anything else....??

 

While it is higher than most - there are many things in running a business to support doing a transfer and it is not just abt the NICS check.

I do not like to pay high prices or exorbitant prices - but, if that is what the market bears in the area, expect to have to pay it.

The point being, there are many other mitigating factors that drive prices and possibly the sarcasm you received.

 

I sat with a client the other day saying that my contractual agreement with them and their organization for my work pre-COVID at $ 14,500 was high now, as their membership is down 25% for the synagogue - oh that's a shame, you contracted for the work, the work is 90% done - you do not get to go back - maybe you should have negotiated better at the start....  :)

 

You are trying to apply a billable rate model to a retail business. It doesn't work that way. The time, electric, and other incidental are a sunk cost. Just the cost of doing business, same as CC fees. I never understood anyone adding 3% fees for using credit cards. Again just a cost of doing business.

Your billable rate is $275/hr. Is this on a T&M contract? Do you have 1880hrs or 1920hrs at a specific job? Are you a consultant that just bills for hours actually under contract? There is a big difference between the two models. 275hr * 1920 = $528,000/yr. vs $275 * number of contract hours = much lower.

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4 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said:

I never understood anyone adding 3% fees for using credit cards.

As you probably know, there are transaction fees associated with CCs.  That cuts into the retailer's bottom line and makes profitability difficult when working off thin margins in viciously competitive markets.  I happen to dislike when stores have a CC surcharge.  I much prefer the cash discount model.  As a practical matter, it is the same, but instead of penalizing someone for using a CC, you are rewarding them for paying in cash.  It's all about the optics.

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