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J&J Gunworks Bad Experience

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1 hour ago, father-of-three said:

It is sad and frustrating that the state of New Jersey has been successful in making gun purchases more expensive.

Talking to my buddy in PA was discussing  selling him a rifle. Ask what the process was over there. He laughed said you give me rifle I give you cash wtf are you talking about process. 

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4 hours ago, JC_68Westy said:

 I never understood anyone adding 3% fees for using credit cards. Again just a cost of doing business.

 

when a cc company raises their cost to us, then we need to either raise our cost, or charge extra. the y hit us with fees for just about everything. it is actually fairly expensive to accept a cc. especially when you're using any form of any card with "free" rewards. you don't really think that they're being nice and giving you free stuff, do you? no. they charge us more.

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1 hour ago, 0Jeep4 said:

Talking to my buddy in PA was discussing  selling him a rifle. Ask what the process was over there. He laughed said you give me rifle I give you cash wtf are you talking about process. 

It is so much better, and Pennsylvania isn't even a private sale for handgun state!

My last purchases in Pennsylvania were one $20 transfer fee for two handguns.  There are transfer price variations there too, but I think the most I ever paid was $40.

Yes, Pennsylvania has a far left governor like New Jersey, but at least over there they don't  have a far left legislature, so the laws (so far) have remained the same.

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13 hours ago, JC_68Westy said:

You are trying to apply a billable rate model to a retail business. It doesn't work that way. The time, electric, and other incidental are a sunk cost. Just the cost of doing business, same as CC fees. I never understood anyone adding 3% fees for using credit cards. Again just a cost of doing business.

Your billable rate is $275/hr. Is this on a T&M contract? Do you have 1880hrs or 1920hrs at a specific job? Are you a consultant that just bills for hours actually under contract? There is a big difference between the two models. 275hr * 1920 = $528,000/yr. vs $275 * number of contract hours = much lower.

That's a ridiculous business model if you are not capturing your costs as well as profit..  the cost OF doing business IS the cost of doing business.  If you do not know what your assets and liabilities are, how do you set an effective price point to ensure your business survives?

I also see no issue with CC fees - but i do like to deal in cash myself.....

A transfer is a billable rate model.....its the persons time, expertise and licensing as well as other ancillary items to conduct that biz in a brick and mortar setting etc.  

 

I do both, depends...some are fixed rate contracts, x service for x hours at x rate is the contract...plus CA services....

But i also do time card plus travel and all expenses, most times on a NTE per month.

 

The pricing this retailer setup for the transfer might or might not work in the long run, but my point is, you cannot just say " hey that's too expensive" - without considering other factors.

Just cause it is guns, does not mean they can't male a profit....and if it is a hot commodity, why should anyone but the market rate set the price?

PS....  i may have access to some 10mm brass....  small lot...you want it?  U have a 10 right?  :drinks:

 

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10 hours ago, father-of-three said:

It is so much better, and Pennsylvania isn't even a private sale for handgun state!

My last purchases in Pennsylvania were one $20 transfer fee for two handguns.  There are transfer price variations there too, but I think the most I ever paid was $40.

Yes, Pennsylvania has a far left governor like New Jersey, but at least over there they don't  have a far left legislature, so the laws (so far) have remained the same.

I'M pretty sure that pa is much closer to falling than most realize. don't forget what their criminal ag did a few years agio with recip.......

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1 hour ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

 

I also see no issue with CC fees - but i do like to deal in cash myself.....

 

 

this. if more people would move away from plastic(other than for extreme emergencies) and pay cash for everything, you'd all be surprised at how much more money you'd actually have in your pocket. it would also cause the banks to scramble to keep people using cc's, by eliminating many of the ridiculous charges they levy on us.

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20 hours ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

You are missing my point - the market will set the prices - it always has and always will.  Sadly this is one side of a story, there is the other and then the truth.  :)

What is the "right" price for a transfer?  Think about this.

Brink and Mortar, with lights, heat, rent insurance licensing fees etc. - that = $$$

Then there is time for paperwork, organizing paperwork, sorting it, keeping records and also sitting through ATF audits that = time which = $$$

 

Now, if you are a one off walk in transfer guy - sure why not charge what you can - and if you get it great - if not, as an owner maybe he is more concerned taking care of his repeat customers that do more than just transfers....

 

So look at time - and given the delays with NICS lately, you need to come in for two visits - 

 

Let's say it takes him 1 hour in total to process this transaction end to end - that has to cover his time, electric and all the other incidentals as needed to keep a brick and mortar open - *IN* a state that is not gun friendly.

 

My time is billed at $ 275.00 per hour.......  what is your rate for your time - not including anything else....??

 

While it is higher than most - there are many things in running a business to support doing a transfer and it is not just abt the NICS check.

I do not like to pay high prices or exorbitant prices - but, if that is what the market bears in the area, expect to have to pay it.

The point being, there are many other mitigating factors that drive prices and possibly the sarcasm you received.

 

I sat with a client the other day saying that my contractual agreement with them and their organization for my work pre-COVID at $ 14,500 was high now, as their membership is down 25% for the synagogue - oh that's a shame, you contracted for the work, the work is 90% done - you do not get to go back - maybe you should have negotiated better at the start....  :)

 

The sad thing is that the customer (and the billable-rate purveyor of boomsticks) are FORCED  to this absurdity by the encroaching govdernment and its agendas.

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1 hour ago, CAL. .30 M1 said:

That's a ridiculous business model if you are not capturing your costs as well as profit..  the cost OF doing business IS the cost of doing business.  If you do not know what your assets and liabilities are, how do you set an effective price point to ensure your business survives?

I also see no issue with CC fees - but i do like to deal in cash myself.....

A transfer is a billable rate model.....its the persons time, expertise and licensing as well as other ancillary items to conduct that biz in a brick and mortar setting etc.  

 

I do both, depends...some are fixed rate contracts, x service for x hours at x rate is the contract...plus CA services....

But i also do time card plus travel and all expenses, most times on a NTE per month.

 

The pricing this retailer setup for the transfer might or might not work in the long run, but my point is, you cannot just say " hey that's too expensive" - without considering other factors.

Just cause it is guns, does not mean they can't male a profit....and if it is a hot commodity, why should anyone but the market rate set the price?

PS....  i may have access to some 10mm brass....  small lot...you want it?  U have a 10 right?  :drinks:

 

Yes on the 10mm bras, I do have a 10 and do reload it. :friends:

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3 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

I'M pretty sure that pa is much closer to falling than most realize. don't forget what their criminal ag did a few years agio with recip.......

Yes.  Multiple attorney generals, one of which is now a felon, have worked around the legislature with some success.  I'm pretty sure Pennsylvania is on the Bloomberg hit list after being successful in Virginia.

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3 hours ago, JC_68Westy said:

Yes on the 10mm bras, I do have a 10 and do reload it. :friends:

pretty sure there's no need for a 10mm bra

50 minutes ago, father-of-three said:

Yes.  Multiple attorney generals, one of which is now a felon, have worked around the legislature with some success.  I'm pretty sure Pennsylvania is on the Bloomberg hit list after being successful in Virginia.

it's sad to see free states fall like this. even sadder that there's no way we're gonna be able to stop it.

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they have memberships from 279 and up when I became a gold member.  I chose gold because it has lots of benefits that I have yet to use all.  The new section will have members only so you dont have to worry too much.  You can go to Gunforhire.com  and check it all out. 

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On 3/5/2021 at 4:53 PM, JC_68Westy said:

You are trying to apply a billable rate model to a retail business. It doesn't work that way. The time, electric, and other incidental are a sunk cost. Just the cost of doing business, same as CC fees. I never understood anyone adding 3% fees for using credit cards. Again just a cost of doing business.

Your billable rate is $275/hr. Is this on a T&M contract? Do you have 1880hrs or 1920hrs at a specific job? Are you a consultant that just bills for hours actually under contract? There is a big difference between the two models. 275hr * 1920 = $528,000/yr. vs $275 * number of contract hours = much lower.

same reason gas stations have credit or cash price, retailer loses 3 percent or more when you process the card. I have recently acquired merchant retail card processor from Citi bank that charges the customer back that percentage rate but you have to display cash or credit options. Square is at 3.5% manual entry 4% for American express. 

 

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2 hours ago, tony357 said:

same reason gas stations have credit or cash price, retailer loses 3 percent or more when you process the card. I have recently acquired merchant retail card processor from Citi bank that charges the customer back that percentage rate but you have to display cash or credit options. Square is at 3.5% manual entry 4% for American express. 

 

After leaving NJ I have never seen a gas station with separate pricing for cash/credit card. In a retail/service business like an FFL it would make more sense to me to have standard rates with CC fees factored in and then offer a cash discount. 

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20 hours ago, JC_68Westy said:

After leaving NJ I have never seen a gas station with separate pricing for cash/credit card. In a retail/service business like an FFL it would make more sense to me to have standard rates with CC fees factored in and then offer a cash discount. 

You're arguing for the same thing. A cash price and a CC price. Most places just add the fee as overhead and charge it across all sales. Regardless of how it is marketed, which is really just psychological... which ever price is standard and whether there is a discount or an up charge, the result is the same. 

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20 hours ago, JC_68Westy said:

After leaving NJ I have never seen a gas station with separate pricing for cash/credit card. In a retail/service business like an FFL it would make more sense to me to have standard rates with CC fees factored in and then offer a cash discount. 

that is what those stations are doing. it's what we all do. it's part of the cost of doing business. and just like any other cost of doing business....when it goes up so does the cost of product sold. which reminds me...i just got a letter from elevon that my rates are going up again. and i gotta call them, 'cause there's part that sounds like i'm being charged twice for essentially the same thing. it's getting close to time to find another provider i think.

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On 3/5/2021 at 7:30 PM, father-of-three said:

It is sad and frustrating that the state of New Jersey has been successful in making gun purchases more expensive.

That is their plan!! They want NO gun sales, want to know every sale and make a profit on every sale!!!

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20 hours ago, JC_68Westy said:

After leaving NJ I have never seen a gas station with separate pricing for cash/credit card. 

Never seen one that forces you to pay the full-service surcharge, either!  OK, parts of Oregon, but even there it is no longer a statewide requirement that all gas be full-serve.

I've now lived in NJ for 35 years  (only two more to go!).  In all that time, I've never had a 'full service' station offer to check my oil or clean my windshield.  You know, do actual 'full service' stuff.    I've had them refuse to do those things, but never has a station actually done them.  Not once in 35 years.

I filled up at a self-serve station in Montana last year.  The attendant walked out and cleaned my windshield while I was pumping gas.

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