Building an Other

[RickS 0]

Been reading through all the posts regarding the assembly of these. I'm not trying to open up a can of worms or start a debate but was wondering if anyone has actually had their home assembled firearm called into question. It's just a shame that they leave so much gray area and at the end of the day it only hurts the people who are trying to comply. I understand the overall length and parts requirement but my interpretation is that these also must meet the following requirement:

1.  Manufactured and sold as a complete firearm in New Jersey, not sold as a reciever

[JackDaWack 2,484]

19 minutes ago, RickS said:

Been reading through all the posts regarding the assembly of these. I'm not trying to open up a can of worms or start a debate but was wondering if anyone has actually had their home assembled firearm called into question. It's just a shame that they leave so much gray area and at the end of the day it only hurts the people who are trying to comply. I understand the overall length and parts requirement but my interpretation is that these also must meet the following requirement:

1.  Manufactured and sold as a complete firearm in New Jersey, not sold as a reciever

They do not need to meet that requirement. Per usual the state police created a condition based on specific situations that may or may not be present. 

It's safer to build your own other in NJ than an ar15 rifle based on the states reasoning. 

They are concerned people will have illegal firearms during the building process prior to completion. Which is in fact a concern.

It's like building your own ar15, when you put an adjustable stock on its technically illegal until you pin it. Same with a threaded barrel. Yet, people have been doing this all over the state who are competent enough to do the compliance work themselves.

Since an other doesn't fall under this category of assault rifles most of the evil features don't exist. 

The state thinks that because you have parts to make an assault rifle, it would be illegal to build one. But once it's built, if you follow the parameters, it's 100% legal just like a ar15 rifle.

Have you built anything using the ar15 platform before? 

[RickS 0]

1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

They do not need to meet that requirement. Per usual the state police created a condition based on specific situations that may or may not be present. 

It's safer to build your own other in NJ than an ar15 rifle based on the states reasoning. 

They are concerned people will have illegal firearms during the building process prior to completion. Which is in fact a concern.

It's like building your own ar15, when you put an adjustable stock on its technically illegal until you pin it. Same with a threaded barrel. Yet, people have been doing this all over the state who are competent enough to do the compliance work themselves.

Since an other doesn't fall under this category of assault rifles most of the evil features don't exist. 

The state thinks that because you have parts to make an assault rifle, it would be illegal to build one. But once it's built, if you follow the parameters, it's 100% legal just like a ar15 rifle.

Have you built anything using the ar15 platform before? 

Thanks for the input. Yes I’ve built them before and fully understand the compliance work needed for the ar platform. I hate it but i guess that’s what we have to deal with. I just hate the pin and weld requirement because now that modification is permanent or run the risk of ruining a barrel if something needs to change. Which is the contributing factor to the desire to build an other.

[JackDaWack 2,484]

32 minutes ago, RickS said:

Thanks for the input. Yes I’ve built them before and fully understand the compliance work needed for the ar platform. I hate it but i guess that’s what we have to deal with. I just hate the pin and weld requirement because now that modification is permanent or run the risk of ruining a barrel if something needs to change. Which is the contributing factor to the desire to build an other.

Right there with ya. If you understand the risks building an other is no different than its rifle counter part from the legal perspective.  I perform compliance work prior to assembly, so I don't worry about it. 

I shoot mine at cherry ridge and not a single person has bothered me over it. 

The state is concerned that before you finish the firearm, your upper parts can be used to turn another rifle into a SBR. Its actually no different than the NFA constructive intent law that applies throughout the entire country. Once every thing is put together that concept magically dissapears, which is retarded as we all know. 

 

[H J Daly 1]

Hello, I just ordered 2 of PSA's $99 lowers, and am looking to build an other firearm.  I haven't taken poss. of the lowers yet.  I'm looking at PSA website and they have this 10.5 nice completed upper:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-10-5-lightweight-m-lok-upper-with-romeo-msr-mbus-sight-set-bcg-ch4.html

 

According to the chart on the other thread, this would be gtg if I added the Vltor A5 buffer system with brace or the milspec sba3 or 4.  I understand i would also need a mlok VFG which i plan to get from Primary Arms.

 

My questions:

1. I did search for Vltor A5 but am still unable to determine exactly what constitutes this system.  Exactly what parts do i need to buy?

2.  Who can pin and weld the flash hider?

3.  Is there anything special i need to do while taking possession of the lower(s) from the FFL?

 

Thanks for advice.

[JackDaWack 2,484]

On 3/26/2021 at 3:01 PM, H J Daly said:

Hello, I just ordered 2 of PSA's $99 lowers, and am looking to build an other firearm.  I haven't taken poss. of the lowers yet.  I'm looking at PSA website and they have this 10.5 nice completed upper:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-10-5-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-10-5-lightweight-m-lok-upper-with-romeo-msr-mbus-sight-set-bcg-ch4.html

 

According to the chart on the other thread, this would be gtg if I added the Vltor A5 buffer system with brace or the milspec sba3 or 4.  I understand i would also need a mlok VFG which i plan to get from Primary Arms.

 

My questions:

1. I did search for Vltor A5 but am still unable to determine exactly what constitutes this system.  Exactly what parts do i need to buy?

2.  Who can pin and weld the flash hider?

3.  Is there anything special i need to do while taking possession of the lower(s) from the FFL?

 

Thanks for advice.

A5 system uses the intermediate length buffer tube. Vltor sells them, and BCM. Uses an A5 buffer (no exceptions) and rifle length springs. 

 

You can use a 11.5 inch barrel and won't have to pin or weld anything. Or use a 10.5 and pin what ever you want on it. Anyone can do it... hard to answer that question with out details on location. 

 

Nothing special required. Pickup the receiver and build it. 

[H J Daly 1]

thanks for the response.  In question 2 I guess I should have asked, is the flash hider that comes on that upper just screwed on, which I would have to take to a smith to have pinned/welded?  I'm in Washington Township Gloucester County.

 

Also does the brace need to be pinned?

[JackDaWack 2,484]

12 hours ago, H J Daly said:

thanks for the response.  In question 2 I guess I should have asked, is the flash hider that comes on that upper just screwed on, which I would have to take to a smith to have pinned/welded?  I'm in Washington Township Gloucester County.

 

Also does the brace need to be pinned?

It's not a rifle, so it doesn't need complaint work. 

However, you need the gun to be 26" from buffer end to barrel end. 

A 10.5 inch barrel even with a5 tube isn't long enough. 

[H J Daly 1]

anybody know a gunsmith who will do the compliance work? by which i mean pin/weld the flash hider.  the two i called here in south jersey told me they wont work with any barrel under 16.  both also told me an "other" must be purchased as 1pc.  I know it is not true but i'm not going to argue with him.

[Scorpio64 3,507]

4 hours ago, H J Daly said:

both also told me an "other" must be purchased as 1pc.  I know it is not true but i'm not going to argue with him.

FWIW...  A Mossberg shockwave can only be purchased as a shockwave.  If you have a 500 or 590 laying around and you decide to chop it down and "make " it into a shockwave, that's a no no and it will get you in hot water.  The moral of the story here is that you can buy some things that fit an "other" category, but you cannot necessarily make your own other just because the category exists.

[JackDaWack 2,484]

23 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

FWIW...  A Mossberg shockwave can only be purchased as a shockwave.  If you have a 500 or 590 laying around and you decide to chop it down and "make " it into a shockwave, that's a no no and it will get you in hot water.  The moral of the story here is that you can buy some things that fit an "other" category, but you cannot necessarily make your own other just because the category exists.

I beleive you could buy a 500 receiver and build a shockwave from it.. you absolutely can make your own other just because the category exists, it just can't begin life as a rifle or shotgun, that is literally the only rule or law you must avoid. 

 

On 4/3/2021 at 2:47 PM, H J Daly said:

anybody know a gunsmith who will do the compliance work? by which i mean pin/weld the flash hider.  the two i called here in south jersey told me they wont work with any barrel under 16.  both also told me an "other" must be purchased as 1pc.  I know it is not true but i'm not going to argue with him.

 Find yourself a gunshop that isnt fully of pu$$ies 

[Redeye65 69]

Still learning the rules about an “other” and if I understand correct this CZ

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-pistol-w-flash-can-folding-brace/

would be illegal unless the folding brace was pinned? Assuming it meets 922(r) requirements.  
 

Or, it isn’t even an “other” because CZ calls it a hand gun?

If someone had a class on how to figure all this out, I would sign up, so frustrating because I can build or repair pretty much anything except firearms.  

[JackDaWack 2,484]

46 minutes ago, Redeye65 said:

Still learning the rules about an “other” and if I understand correct this CZ

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-pistol-w-flash-can-folding-brace/

would be illegal unless the folding brace was pinned? Assuming it meets 922(r) requirements.  
 

Or, it isn’t even an “other” because CZ calls it a hand gun?

If someone had a class on how to figure all this out, I would sign up, so frustrating because I can build or repair pretty much anything except firearms.  

Pretty sure even with a pinned brace it would be illegal. Why? Well, ATF says to remove anything that superficially elongates the weapon, of which does not define the weapon or change its classification. 

The brace on a scorpion is an accessory, folded or pinned. I beleive it can be removed and without modifications the weapon still functions as designed. Not like the reciever extension of the AR variants which is part of the weapons operating system. 

 

What I am truly curious about, can you pin a brace on an AR reciever extension to get more length, and shorten the barrel further? If it's considered "permanent" it becomes part of the very important recoil system required to make the firearm function.  It cannot be removed without altering the weapon and tampering with evidence. At least that would be the argument. 

Any handgun can be converted into an "other" and back, provided you're in a legal state to own these handguns. 

[Scorpio64 3,507]

4 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

I beleive you could buy a 500 receiver and build a shockwave from it.

If your belief is correct, then the builder would have to buy a factory new stripped receiver and have it classified as "other" at the FFL.  Buying a stripped receiver on GB that came off a 500 shotgun that was already sold as a shottie would be a no-go.

The point is, there may be loopholes, but they are very narrow.  One careless oversight or assumption could get one in deep shit.

[Mr.Stu 636]

14 hours ago, Redeye65 said:

Still learning the rules about an “other” and if I understand correct this CZ

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-pistol-w-flash-can-folding-brace/

would be illegal unless the folding brace was pinned? Assuming it meets 922(r) requirements.  
 

Or, it isn’t even an “other” because CZ calls it a hand gun?

If someone had a class on how to figure all this out, I would sign up, so frustrating because I can build or repair pretty much anything except firearms.  

That's a pistol and would be transferred as a pistol on the 4473. It is not legal in NJ due to the weight being more than double that allowed for a pistol with detachable mag outside the grip.

ETA: the barrel shroud also counts as an evil feature so it is illegal in NJ for 2 reasons.

[ShootersShooter 3]

When buying a lower for a future "Other" build, would I need a NJ Pistol Purchase permit or just my FID? Thanks

 

[JohnnyB 3,319]

6 minutes ago, ShootersShooter said:

When buying a lower for a future "Other" build, would I need a NJ Pistol Purchase permit or just my FID? Thanks

 

FID

[ShootersShooter 3]

Thanks a lot, that helps. 

[ShootersShooter 3]

I'd prefer a lower built with a milspec sba3  brace, and a 10.5 or 11" complete railed upper and the least intrusive forward grip. Any suggestions for that type of grip and remaining legal? I appreciate the patience and info.