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leahcim

Precious metals

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Besides lead and  brass. What type/amount of physical metal do people keep or would like to keep? Not as investment but as a store of value for a near apocalypse?  And Gold vs silver vs other options?

And what about online purchase? Legit/honest online sellers.

Also I noticed a pretty large variation in silver prices/markup over spot based on the form, like certain coins seem to draw huge markups. I would think that when selling, the buyer is not going to care about an American Eagle vs a silver bar. 

Thanks

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On 4/2/2021 at 8:17 PM, leahcim said:

I would think that when selling, the buyer is not going to care about an American Eagle vs a silver bar. 

Stay with bullion; American silver/gold eagles or Canadian Maple leafs from the large bullion dealers Like Ampex. I always purchased them in qty of 20 Eagles or 25 Maple Leaf rolls on Ebay, but they sell direct as well. 

You want something well recognized. American Eagles have higher premiums for that reason. The Maple Leafs on the other hand are .9999 pure silver and have anti-counterfeit security features on their coins now I believe.  

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Just now, leahcim said:

So by buying eagles, maple leafs etc. at large premium to spot, vs buying say .999 silver shot, at a lower per oz? Because the coins are essentially self authenticating?

It all works out the same in the end. You may pay a lower premium at purchase but also will get a lower premium when you sell. Premiums are very high right now, nothing you can do about that.

Anyway, bullion isn't a trading vehicle its a hedge against monetary inflation. 

 

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It's really speculation if you'll be able to do anything with silver/gold when Mad Max arrives. Some people think it's the only way to go. But think about it, will the grocery store or gas station take your silver coins for payment? If things get that bad that it's considered, I think we'll have a lot bigger issues to deal with.

That said, I have both silver and gold. More 1 oz. silver coins than gold, but I'm not expecting to be able to do anything with them. Maybe in a rare barter situation, a local person might take them in trade, but I'm not expecting them to save me from anything. Cash will be king for a long time.

Hell, most people have no idea what a 1 oz. silver coin is worth. Mark Dice has done multiple Youtube videos proving that.

If I had a guess, my kids will end up doing something with them, long after I'm gone.

Regarding ordering, I've used a few different big online dealers with zero issues. Regarding price over spot, it's just a supply/demand situation, and varies with the market and interest. I also don't think you should worry about it being Eagles or Maple Leafs. Any pure generic coin is fine, no need to pay a premium for name brand. Either someone will know what a 1 oz. coin or bar is worth, or they won't.

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55 minutes ago, Sniper said:

It's really speculation if you'll be able to do anything with silver/gold when Mad Max arrives. Some people think it's the only way to go. But think about it, will the grocery store or gas station take your silver coins for payment? If things get that bad that it's considered, I think we'll have a lot bigger issues to deal with.

That said, I have both silver and gold. More 1 oz. silver coins than gold, but I'm not expecting to be able to do anything with them. Maybe in a rare barter situation, a local person might take them in trade, but I'm not expecting them to save me from anything. Cash will be king for a long time.

You're looking at it wrong. What we're facing at some point is a monetary crisis.

If the federal reserve keeps creating trillions of dollars out of nothing inflation rages and the dollar's reserve status will be threatened. If they stop the printing presses the economy and asset prices crash. Either way the result is Great Depression part two.

Gold and and silver will hold their value and be convertable into (or back) whatever form of currencies may emerge from the wreckage.

Central Banks hold gold bullion for a reason. China and Russia have been adding to their gold reserves big time.  

 

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54 minutes ago, Bomber said:

You're looking at it wrong. What we're facing at some point is a monetary crisis.

If the federal reserve keeps creating trillions of dollars out of nothing inflation rages and the dollar's reserve status will be threatened. If they stop the printing presses the economy and asset prices crash. Either way the result is Great Depression part two.

Gold and and silver will hold their value and be convertable into (or back) whatever form of currencies may emerge from the wreckage.

Yeah, a monetary crisis is coming, but you're preaching a narrative held by a few PM holders, buy won't turn into reality when it comes. Reason, like I mentioned above, very few have any idea what PMs are worth. Where will you be trading your gold/silver to in your neighborhood for gas, food, supplies, medicine, etc?

Here's what the true reality will be in these videos:

 

 

 

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Doesn't matter what the average idiot on the street average understands about value of PM's.

And I didn't say anything about using silver/gold coins to buy groceries.

But if you want to unload your physical gold and silver I'll gladly pay spot prices in cash. :yes:

 

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39 minutes ago, Bomber said:

Doesn't matter what the average idiot on the street average understands about value of PM's.

And I didn't say anything about using silver/gold coins to buy groceries.

So, if you're not going to use them to buy what you need, what are you going to use them for?

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10 hours ago, Sniper said:

It's really speculation if you'll be able to do anything with silver/gold when Mad Max arrives. Some people think it's the only way to go. But think about it, will the grocery store or gas station take your silver coins for payment? If things get that bad that it's considered, I think we'll have a lot bigger issues to deal with.

Which is why, so far, my PMs consist of lead and brass.  In a MadMax scenario I think these will hold value just based on utility.

And if things get bad, but not MadMax bad, maybe having a mix of PMs + crypto as a hedge...

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10 hours ago, Bomber said:

You're looking at it wrong. What we're facing at some point is a monetary crisis.

If the federal reserve keeps creating trillions of dollars out of nothing inflation rages and the dollar's reserve status will be threatened. If they stop the printing presses the economy and asset prices crash. Either way the result is Great Depression part two.

Gold and and silver will hold their value and be convertable into (or back) whatever form of currencies may emerge from the wreckage.

Central Banks hold gold bullion for a reason. China and Russia have been adding to their gold reserves big time.  

 

There are a lot of reasons to hold gold and sliver, these being among them.  The problem with gold is that one ounce coins or bars contain so much value, that it would be hard to spend them as a barter medium in a case where the currency collapses.  Many people advocate owning bags of 90% silver pre-1964 U.S. coins for the potential of using them for smaller purchases.  The biggest problem with silver that I see is that after you start to accumulate a decent amount, it gets pretty damn heavy and nearly impossible to tote around. 

Another huge problem I have discovered is that the State of NJ charges sales tax on precious metal purchases, so one would need to add nearly 7% to the cost of owning it, on top of the premium, or around an additional $100 on an ounce of gold.  I believe this makes the cost prohibitive, unless you can have it shipped out of state somewhere, or held in the vault of a reliable seller. 

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people convert cash for precious metals for various reasons,   Some in cash businesses that would be questioned buy the IRS if they made large cash deposits,  Some convert it over time to secure it from unscrupulous lawyers if and when you get divorced. Some for the apocalypse which is coming right up around the bend and other various reasons.    back in the late 80's early 90;s I think silver was about 6-8 dollars an ounce, Not too long ago it spiked up to around 50 dollars an ounce for a short time and today its around 24 dollars.  So I think its better than hoarding cash as there is a good chance it will go up and you will get some profit, you just have to convert it at the right time.    It's also about keeping your money too,    If you loose your bank account to a divorce you have nothing,  If you hoarded precious metals and properly hid them than you have something  

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3 hours ago, leahcim said:

Which is why, so far, my PMs consist of lead and brass.  In a MadMax scenario I think these will hold value just based on utility.

Ha... that's true... my lead/brass is up 300% - 400% the last few years, my silver, not so much.

3 hours ago, Old Glock guy said:

There are a lot of reasons to hold gold and sliver, these being among them.  The problem with gold is that one ounce coins or bars contain so much value, that it would be hard to spend them as a barter medium in a case where the currency collapses. 

That's the way I see it too, it would be tough to find someone who'll take gold in trade, based on it's value. I think silver is a better choice, based on the lower values.

But, I still think it's going to be tough to use them in a barter/trade situation, as many people just don't understand the value (as the videos I posted above showed). Will there be a time you'll be able to buy a car, tractor, or house with a handfull of silver or gold coins, when the dollar collapses and bread costs $25/loaf? That could be a rare situation.

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4 hours ago, Old Glock guy said:

There are a lot of reasons to hold gold and sliver, these being among them.  The problem with gold is that one ounce coins or bars contain so much value, that it would be hard to spend them as a barter medium in a case where the currency collapses.  Many people advocate owning bags of 90% silver pre-1964 U.S. coins for the potential of using them for smaller purchases.  The biggest problem with silver that I see is that after you start to accumulate a decent amount, it gets pretty damn heavy and nearly impossible to tote around. 

Another huge problem I have discovered is that the State of NJ charges sales tax on precious metal purchases, so one would need to add nearly 7% to the cost of owning it, on top of the premium, or around an additional $100 on an ounce of gold.  I believe this makes the cost prohibitive, unless you can have it shipped out of state somewhere, or held in the vault of a reliable seller. 

Valcambi produces various sizes of what they call a combi-bar. 100*1g, 50*1, 20*1

Where you can snap off one gram at a time.

https://www.jmbullion.com/100-gram-valcambi-gold-combibar-100x1g/

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11 hours ago, Sniper said:

But, I still think it's going to be tough to use them in a barter/trade situation, as many people just don't understand the value (as the videos I posted above showed). Will there be a time you'll be able to buy a car, tractor, or house with a handfull of silver or gold coins, when the dollar collapses and bread costs $25/loaf? That could be a rare situation.

We're not going to barter trade or mad max scenarios. 

Whats certain is the dollar losing value and could lose its reserve currency status one day. If that happens people will get a painful lesson in the value of PM's verses fiat paper currencies.  

 Physical gold and silver holdings protect wealth in these situations. 

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28 minutes ago, Bomber said:

We're not going to barter trade or mad max scenarios. 

What is certain is the dollar is losing value and could lose its reserve currency status one day. If that happens people are going get a painful lesson in the value of PM's verses fiat paper currencies.  

 Physical gold and silver holdings protect wealth in these situations. 

Seems like a diversified portfolio of stock in companies with international exposure, REITs, maybe some foreign currency bonds, and maybe PMs (indirectly) and crypto would be a better strategy. Why would one own physical PM other than the MadMax option?

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1 hour ago, Bomber said:

Physical gold and silver holdings protect wealth in these situations.

So, what's your end game? Besides just rolling around in them :xD:, what do you anticipate? Cashing in when silver/gold prices hit a certain level?

1 hour ago, Bomber said:

What is certain is the dollar is losing value and could lose its reserve currency status one day. If that happens people are going get a painful lesson in the value of PM's verses fiat paper currencies.  

If you look back at other countries that collapsed, like Venezuela or Argentina, paper currencies never went away. It just took more of them to buy what you needed. The far majority of people will default to this paper, no matter what. If they were holding gold/silver, it didn't give them many options, except to help them buy their way out of the country.

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1 hour ago, leahcim said:

 Why would one own physical PM other than the MadMax option?

As a hedge against dollar devaluation and inflation.

Diversified stock portfolios, cryptos are fine as well but a percentage should be in physical PM's.  

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1 hour ago, Bomber said:

As a hedge against dollar devaluation and inflation.

Diversified stock portfolios, cryptos are fine as well but a percentage should be in physical PM's.  

But why physical PM vs owning it through a holding company or fund that would but and store and maintain the metal for you. Can't you get the same exposure that route?

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41 minutes ago, leahcim said:

But why physical PM vs owning it through a holding company or fund that would but and store and maintain the metal for you. Can't you get the same exposure that route?

Personally, I prefer physical PM's to be in my possession.  A case can be made for having it stored outside the banking system but I'm not familiar with the details. 

Keep in mind a roll of 20 American Gold Eagles (almost $40,000) can fit in a front pocket.

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1 hour ago, leahcim said:

But why physical PM vs owning it through a holding company or fund that would but and store and maintain the metal for you. Can't you get the same exposure that route?

One reason, there are tons more paper sold than available physical. If many people decide they want their physical in hand, the funds wouldn't be able to deliver it all, as it doesn't exist. Just like lead/brass, if you don't hold it, you don't own it.

https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2017/05/16/paper-vs-physical-silver-market-001075

Global-Silver-Exchange-Trading-vs-Mine-S

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44 minutes ago, Bomber said:

Personally, I prefer physical PM's to be in my possession.  A case can be made for having it stored outside the banking system but I'm not familiar with the details. 

Keep in mind a roll of 20 American Gold Eagles (almost $40,000) can fit in a front pocket.

I can understand that. I have the same feeling, but part of that is based on the apocalypse scenario, where a gold or silver ETF is but going to help you.

OTOH I would want to make sure my insurance is going to cover that roll of Eagles too.

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36 minutes ago, Sniper said:

One reason, there are tons more paper sold than available physical. If many people decide they want their physical in hand, the funds wouldn't be able to deliver it all, as it doesn't exist. Just like lead/brass, if you don't hold it, you don't own it.

https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2017/05/16/paper-vs-physical-silver-market-001075

Global-Silver-Exchange-Trading-vs-Mine-S

But doesn't the paper give you exposure to an asset that acts like the PM? At least until the apocalypse comes?

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55 minutes ago, leahcim said:

OTOH I would want to make sure my insurance is going to cover that roll of Eagles too.

Isn't that what your lead/brass investment is for? Insurance against....

54 minutes ago, leahcim said:

But doesn't the paper give you exposure to an asset that acts like the PM?

Yes.

54 minutes ago, leahcim said:

At least until the apocalypse comes?

and then it doesn't..

My physical will still be here, no matter what scenario comes along.

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Am already "invested" in copper, brass, and lead; but In the last few weeks I myself have become intrigued with the idea of purchasing some gold and silver as a starting hedge against some future SHTF  financial situation.  So I dove into the PM pool so to speak.  For now,  just putting my toe/foot into the water. My intent is to hold on to whatever I buy and keep it indefinitely and pass it down to our children. So my time horizon is infinite.   Am in the process of purchasing several Credit Suisse and Valcambi 1oz gold bars (New with assay) and several Sunshine Mint 10oz silver bars(with Mintmark SI authentication).  I am getting them from JM Bullion.  They seem to be one of a number of well known reputable online dealers based on the research I did.  (SD Bullion and APMEX were also on my list.).  They only had stock of these items intermittently,  so my purchases are spread across a number of separate orders, two of which have arrived so far.  The remaining items should be arriving next week.  Feels great to have physical possession of them.  I anticipate adding to my inventory over time.  I also plan to check out local coin shops, learn what they have to offer, and further educate myself.

One of the Youtube channels I subscribe to is City Prepping.  He had an excellent video on precious metals from a SHTF prepping perspective.  This link to it is:  

 

 

 

regasrds

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, oldguysrule649 said:

Am already "invested" in copper, brass, and lead; but In the last few weeks I myself have become intrigued with the idea of purchasing some gold and silver as a starting hedge against some future SHTF  financial situation.  So I dove into the PM pool so to speak.  For now,  just putting my toe/foot into the water. My intent is to hold on to whatever I buy and keep it indefinitely and pass it down to our children. So my time horizon is infinite.   Am in the process of purchasing several Credit Suisse and Valcambi 1oz gold bars (New with assay) and several Sunshine Mint 10oz silver bars(with Mintmark SI authentication).  I am getting them from JM Bullion.  They seem to be one of a number of well known reputable online dealers based on the research I did.  (SD Bullion and APMEX were also on my list.).  They only had stock of these items intermittently,  so my purchases are spread across a number of separate orders, two of which have arrived so far.  The remaining items should be arriving next week.  Feels great to have physical possession of them.  I anticipate adding to my inventory over time.  I also plan to check out local coin shops, learn what they have to offer, and further educate myself.

One of the Youtube channels I subscribe to is City Prepping.  He had an excellent video on precious metals from a SHTF prepping perspective.  This link to it is:  

 

 

 

regasrds

 

 

 

 

Thanks. I'm in a similar position, but have not yet acquired any PM.

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1 hour ago, oldguysrule649 said:

I am getting them from JM Bullion.  They seem to be one of a number of well known reputable online dealers based on the research I did.  (SD Bullion and APMEX were also on my list.). 

I've bought from all three of those companies. No issues, they are all reputable.

54 minutes ago, leahcim said:

Thanks. I'm in a similar position, but have not yet acquired any PM.

Jump on in, the water is fine.

One of my first purchases were Zombucks (designed to look like Zombies). I bought them as a spoof, but based on the direction of the country lately, they might be more appropriate than Silver Eagles...  :mutley:

zombucks-our-choice.jpg

 

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