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GDITurbo77

Which JHP's are legal for home defense?

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I have 3 9mm pistols . I was sold a couple of boxes of Sig V-Crown 9mm JHP's for home defense a couple of months back from my LGS. Today, I went to try out a new range to see if I wanted to join. After shooting for about an hour, we decided to become members. I asked about .357 Magnum ammo for my new 686-6+ and he said they only had Hornady Critical Defense rounds for carryout purchase. He then told me that the red tip Hornady's are the only JHP that are legal to use in the state of NJ. This surprised me, since the LGS sold me the other JHP's and never said anything about not being able to use them in a home defense situation. Can someone confirm that the Sig V-Crowns are basically just expensive range ammo?

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Lesson in this:  Never take legal advice from your LGS (or LEO's for that matter).

JHP's are perfectly legal for HD in NJ.  Just be sure to transport them directly from home to the range and back (like handguns).

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13 minutes ago, GDITurbo77 said:

He then told me that the red tip Hornady's are the only JHP that are legal to use in the state of NJ

Hahahaha.  Always Be Closing.   “These right here, (slaps roof) are the only rounds your allowed to use ever.”

As others have said. JHP are completely legal to own and possess in your home.  Transport outside the home is tricky.  

Also Hornady CD are not JHP.  

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21 minutes ago, Old Glock guy said:

Lesson in this:  Never take legal advice from your LGS (or LEO's for that matter).

JHP's are perfectly legal for HD in NJ.  Just be sure to transport them directly from home to the range and back (like handguns).

 

9 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Hahahaha.  Always Be Closing.   “These right here, (slaps roof) are the only rounds your allowed to use ever.”

As others have said. JHP are completely legal to own and possess in your home.  Transport outside the home is tricky.  

Also Hornady CD are not JHP.  

:rofl: I just covered this exact statement in another thread:

Cross post shenanigans:

https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/96118-build-guide-for-non-nfa/&do=findComment&comment=1359042

Where Gun Store Guy is kinda correct, is that Hornady Critical Defense (optimized for small handguns with short barrels) and Critical Duty (optimized for full size handguns) rounds are probably the best (Power Ball and EFMJ being two other good options) rounds that retired LEOs can carry in their firearms outside their home because they are not hollow points, but they don’t act like FMJ either.

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IANAL but IMO any JHPs are legal for home defense in NJ. The laws concerning JHP in NJ for the law abiding citizen do not say where you can USE them, they say where you can POSSESS them.

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6 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

 I just covered this exact statement in another thread:

Good point.  I disagree with the “pinky test” but we might be talking about two very different things 

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From what I understand perfectly legal if done in a  abiding way. But say if you broke a law involving a gun using with hollow points you’re going to have an additional serious charges against you. For instance in a unjustified home defense shooting. 

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Remember the following rules:

1. Do not talk to New Jersey LEO's, they will give you wrong information, give you idiotic advice, or simply have no clue regarding NJ gun law. 

2. The advice given to you by your LGS should be taken with a grain of salt. Do your own legal research, speak to an attorney if need be.

3. All HP ammunition is legal to purchase and possess in NJ, THAT IS ALL! Period! If you use a firearm in your home (god forbid) you have to be justified regardless of the ammunition used. You can take your hollow points with you to the range and back with your FID card on you. 

If you have no interest in owning hollow points you can look at the following:

Inceptor ammo

Hornady Critical

Glaser Ammo

ARX by Ruger

NovX

 

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4 hours ago, marlintag said:

You can take your hollow points with you to the range and back with your FID card on you. 

Where on earth did you hear that an FPIC protects you if found in possession of hollowpoint ammo?

If you are going directly to/from a range with hollowpoints you fall within an exemption. Any firearms you have in your possession at the time are also exempt for the same reason. Your FPIC has nothing at all to do with it.

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7 hours ago, Johnk-NJ said:

From what I understand perfectly legal if done in a  abiding way. But say if you broke a law involving a gun using with hollow points you’re going to have an additional serious charges against you. For instance in a unjustified home defense shooting. 

If you broke a law, hollowpoints are the least of your worries.  If that's the case you don't need a "gun" lawyer, you need a good criminal defense lawyer 

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7 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

Where on earth did you hear that an FPIC protects you if found in possession of hollowpoint ammo?

If you are going directly to/from a range with hollowpoints you fall within an exemption. Any firearms you have in your possession at the time are also exempt for the same reason. Your FPIC has nothing at all to do with it.

I included the statement in case an individual was stopped by police, having an FID on you when going to the range and back should resolve and expediate some issues with the clueless LEO that pulls you over. I never said anything about it providing protection while outside the exemption. 

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3 hours ago, marlintag said:

I included the statement in case an individual was stopped by police, having an FID on you when going to the range and back should resolve and expediate some issues with the clueless LEO that pulls you over. I never said anything about it providing protection while outside the exemption. 

I guess it could if he was taking a rifle or shotgun to the range too. If his hollowpoint ammo is for one of 3 pistols as the OP stated in his first sentence, showing his FPIC does absolutely nothing for him.

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8 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

I guess it could if he was taking a rifle or shotgun to the range too. If his hollowpoint ammo is for one of 3 pistols as the OP stated in his first sentence, showing his FPIC does absolutely nothing for him.

so what would help him? It's true the FID is for long guns only but, at least it provides a LEO with an understanding that the owner is permitted to have "some weapons" not specifically related to the handgun and hollow points. I personally keep an FID on me at all times regardless of whether I take a long gun or pistol to and from the range to expedite a potential traffic stop. I guess the concern here is that if you go to the range with just a pistol and hollow points and leave your FID at home, couldn't a zealous LEO looking for a promotion make your life hell? Demand documentation to prove ownership? Demand club ID? etc.. this is NJ after all... 

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2 minutes ago, marlintag said:

so what would help him? It's true the FID is for long guns only but, at least it provides a LEO with an understanding that the owner is permitted to have "some weapons" not specifically related to the handgun and hollow points. I personally keep an FID on me at all times regardless of whether I take a long gun or pistol to and from the range to expedite a potential traffic stop. I guess the concern here is that if you go to the range with just a pistol and hollow points and leave your FID at home, couldn't a zealous LEO looking for a promotion make your life hell? Demand documentation to prove ownership? Demand club ID? etc.. this is NJ after all... 

The only thing that will help him is the ability to show that he is operating under the exemption which allows transportation directly between his home and the range. For all the good an FPIC will do, he may as well show his social security card.

If you are stopped riding a motorcycle and you present a DL without a motorcycle endorsement, do you think you'll avoid prosecution because you have shown that you can drive "some" vehicle?

If it makes you feel better to imagine what offenses a cop might make up out of thin air and try to come up with a way to protect yourself from those by pretending documents have properties that they do not actually have, who am I to stop you?

However, for the rest of the people reading this: Possession of neither a handgun nor hollowpoint ammunition is excused by the possession of an FPIC. 

I also carry my FPIC all the time, but that is in case I want to use it for it's actual purpose. i.e. buying a long gun, buying pistol ammo or renewing my driver's license.

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On 6/7/2021 at 5:18 PM, marlintag said:

so what would help him? It's true the FID is for long guns only but, at least it provides a LEO with an understanding that the owner is permitted to have "some weapons" not specifically related to the handgun and hollow points. I personally keep an FID on me at all times regardless of whether I take a long gun or pistol to and from the range to expedite a potential traffic stop. I guess the concern here is that if you go to the range with just a pistol and hollow points and leave your FID at home, couldn't a zealous LEO looking for a promotion make your life hell? Demand documentation to prove ownership? Demand club ID? etc.. this is NJ after all... 

Let's put this MYTH to rest, FOREVER & RIGHT NOW!  You may or may not be aware, so for those that AREN'T here goes:

I transport weapons registered to a man that's been DEAD since 1982!  Upon my father's passing, my mother laid his entire modest collection out on display on the dinning room table for her three offspring to divvy-up.  NO PAPERWORK!  Cause that's how it was done back then!

Am I supposed to go dig them both up (Mom died in '95) and ask them where's the P2P's? 

I've been "behind the trigger" for nearly half a century.  The totality of what I've done and what I know could make a good book.  And OPEN LOTS OF EYES to the self-inflicted harassments we continually endure from those that THINK they "know" things...the big one being applying FOPA interstate transport regulations to intrA-state (within NJ) transportation.  The fact is the current law doesn't even say that your Yellow Card has to be IN YOUR POSSESSION, it merely states you have to be granted one to be in compliance of the exception / exemption you're transporting under....  

~R

May be an image of text that says 'ROSENTHAL'

 

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3 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

Let's put this MYTH to rest, FOREVER & RIGHT NOW!  You may or may not be aware, so for those that AREN'T here goes:

I transport weapons registered to a man that's been DEAD since 1982!  Upon my father's passing, my mother laid his entire modest collection out on display on the dinning room table for her three offspring to divvy-up.  NO PAPERWORK!  Cause that's how it was done back then!

Am I supposed to go dig them both up (Mom died in '95) and ask them where's the P2P's? 

I've been "behind the trigger" for nearly half a century.  The totality of what I've done and what I know could make a good book.  And OPEN LOTS OF EYES to the self-inflicted harassments we continually endure from those that THINK they "know" things...the big one being applying FOPA interstate transport regulations to intrA-state (within NJ) transportation.  The fact is the current law doesn't even say that your Yellow Card has to be IN YOUR POSSESSION, it merely states you have to be granted one to be in compliance of the exception / exemption you're transporting under....  

~R

May be an image of text that says 'ROSENTHAL'

 

I usually don't get caught up in arguments with other gun owners but, I feel my advice which is solid and helpful is being disregarded and degraded.

Let's put this MYTH to rest, FOREVER & RIGHT NOW!  You may or may not be aware, so for those that AREN'T here goes:

It's a MYTH UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS TO YOU!!, I have been targeted by my local police department for being a vocal pro 2A advocate. 

I transport weapons registered to a man that's been DEAD since 1982!  Upon my father's passing, my mother laid his entire modest collection out on display on the dinning room table for her three offspring to divvy-up.  NO PAPERWORK!  Cause that's how it was done back then!

Your statement is irrelevant because THATS HOW IT'S DONE NOW! as NO PAPERWORK is required pursuant to   N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3j, your statement is ignorant of the tremendous social and political changes that have taken place since 1982 culminating in a "different breed of enforcers" and anti-gun activists particularly in our state.  

Am I supposed to go dig them both up (Mom died in '95) and ask them where's the P2P's? 

I would CYA with any method in this state including keeping receipts for every firearms purchased, although in every case that may not be available. "You own guns at your own peril" Where did that come from? 

I've been "behind the trigger" for nearly half a century.  The totality of what I've done and what I know could make a good book.  And OPEN LOTS OF EYES to the self-inflicted harassments we continually endure from those that THINK they "know" things...the big one being applying FOPA interstate transport regulations to intrA-state (within NJ) transportation.  The fact is the current law doesn't even say that your Yellow Card has to be IN YOUR POSSESSION, it merely states you have to be granted one to be in compliance of the exception / exemption you're transporting under....  

I wasn't trying to "self-inflict", I was giving good advice that could potentially resolve or expediate issues for those unfortunate enough to be pulled over by a bored cop with a big ego. You don't ENDURE FROM ME, but those in this state that are actively targeting us! You seem to be either oblivious or unaffected by this fact! Nothing in your statement changes the fact that we are in a dire situation in this state until something comes from SCOTUS(ex NYRP V Corlett). If having something as simple as an FID on you can clear up a traffic stop, THEN WHATS THE ISSUE? I've had my say, I won't waste anymore time on this!

 

 

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