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does ammo need to be kept separate from firearm for transport

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New Jersey Statutes 2C:39-6. 

Subsection g. Any weapon being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

Is there another statute that says ammo must be in a separate container than the firearm? From this statute alone I don't see anything that prohibits me from driving from my house to the range with loaded magazines & an unloaded firearm in the same closed and fastened case. Thanks.

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1 hour ago, robby said:

Is there another statute that says ammo must be in a separate container than the firearm? From this statute alone I don't see anything that prohibits me from driving from my house to the range with loaded magazines & an unloaded firearm in the same closed and fastened case. Thanks.

Interstate = YES

Intrastate = No

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1 hour ago, PK90 said:

I am probably wrong on this, as I have placed ammo and a firearm in the same container in checked baggage

I used to do that all the time when I was competing seriously.  It's been awhile though; I probably haven't flown with a firearm for at least 5 years, so I can't claim to have the most recent info.

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I believe the NJSP have come out and said mags can be loaded.  Have to keep them in a separate “container” which I took to include a different section/compartment of the range bag. 

1 hour ago, PK90 said:

I am probably wrong on this, as I have placed ammo and a firearm in the same container in checked baggage

The only time I’ve flown I had the ammo in the same hard case as the firearm (which was unloaded). 

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3 hours ago, PK90 said:

I am probably wrong on this, as I have placed ammo and a firearm in the same container in checked baggage

No you are not.  Ammo and gun have to be in locked hard side container.  Ammo must be in factory box or equivalent. No loaded magazines.  I fly with gun in locked hard side container.  Ammo in Haliburton overnighter.  Gun is in two locked metal containers, ammo is in one.  Gun container is cabled and locked to Haliburton.  Will not stop a determined thief but deter a casual one.

NJSP says on their website ammo must be carried in a separate container.  However, IIRC, this is contrary to the statute.  If this were true and the evil police were out to arrest every legal gun owner, all they would have to do is camp out at every indoor range.  I've never seen anyone arrive at an indoor range to shoot handguns with more than one "container".  Unless they came to shoot a bunch of guns and needed two bags...and there was ammo in at least one of them.

FOPA requires separate containers in the trunk or otherwise inaccessible.  I understand that to be if it's not in the trunk they need to be in a locked case.

That's my interpretation of the laws.  However, I'm not anyone's lawyer (INAL?).  Rather than give me a challenge to provide cites, if you think I'm wrong, you show me.  If you show me I'm wrong I will humble myself.

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14 hours ago, robby said:

To be clear, i’m asking if it’s legal FROM an nj residence TO an nj range. I haven’t seen any statute that says this is not legal. If there is one, or a letter from NJSP that is what I am trying to find 

Firearms ownership in NJ is a balance between the letter of the law and cautious common sense.

I drive an SUV with firearms locked in a gun case without ammo or magazines. I carry ammo and unloaded mags in a separate ammo box locked with a padlock, in the rear of the vehicle until I arrive at the range. If stopped I will respectfully refuse submit to a request for a search of my SUV or either case without a warrant.

Imagine being stopped by an overzealous LEO, handed off to a gun hating city prosecutor, and charged with transporting a loaded firearm because your case contains both a firearm and loaded magazine. How much would it cost to have your vehicle towed, firearms confiscated, bail raised, legal fees, time and inconvenience...even if you win? What are the odds that you would win?

Someday someone may be the subject of caselaw providing strict interpretation of the letter of the law...but it won't be me.

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36 minutes ago, chencaerulescens said:

How much would it cost to have your vehicle towed, firearms confiscated, bail raised, legal fees, time and inconvenience...even if you win? What are the odds that you would win?

 

The process is the punishment.

If the state gets a conviction thats just icing on the cake

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1 hour ago, chencaerulescens said:

Firearms ownership in NJ is a balance between the letter of the law and cautious common sense.

I drive an SUV with firearms locked in a gun case without ammo or magazines. I carry ammo and unloaded mags in a separate ammo box locked with a padlock, in the rear of the vehicle until I arrive at the range. If stopped I will respectfully refuse submit to a request for a search of my SUV or either case without a warrant.

Imagine being stopped by an overzealous LEO, handed off to a gun hating city prosecutor, and charged with transporting a loaded firearm because your case contains both a firearm and loaded magazine. How much would it cost to have your vehicle towed, firearms confiscated, bail raised, legal fees, time and inconvenience...even if you win? What are the odds that you would win?

Someday someone may be the subject of caselaw providing strict interpretation of the letter of the law...but it won't be me.

that possible cost is why i keep saying that when someone gets off the hook for something like this, they then need to go after every single person that was involved in their persecution. both personally and professionally.

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20 hours ago, chencaerulescens said:

Firearms ownership in NJ is a balance between the letter of the law and cautious common sense.

I drive an SUV with firearms locked in a gun case without ammo or magazines. I carry ammo and unloaded mags in a separate ammo box locked with a padlock, in the rear of the vehicle until I arrive at the range. If stopped I will respectfully refuse submit to a request for a search of my SUV or either case without a warrant.

Imagine being stopped by an overzealous LEO, handed off to a gun hating city prosecutor, and charged with transporting a loaded firearm because your case contains both a firearm and loaded magazine. How much would it cost to have your vehicle towed, firearms confiscated, bail raised, legal fees, time and inconvenience...even if you win? What are the odds that you would win?

Someday someone may be the subject of caselaw providing strict interpretation of the letter of the law...but it won't be me.

Actually this page, which many use as reference to discuss this topic https://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml seems to suggest that they expect ammo and a firearm to be in the same container. 

Quote

 If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

 

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1 hour ago, robby said:

Actually this page, which many use as reference to discuss this topic https://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml seems to suggest that they expect ammo and a firearm to be in the same container. 

 

As you may know the NJSP website is not the law. As the disclaimer reads: "The materials and information provided on this website are provided "as is." No warranty of any kind, implied, expressed, or statutory..."

On the same website https://www.njsp.org/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml section 6, NJSP provides us with: "As a precaution, ammunition shall be transported in a separate container and locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported." 

While NJ Statute  2C:39-6 addresses the transport of firearms, NJSP seems to have extended it to ammo without any legal authority. Which page is correct? Who would want a judge and jury to decide based in a website that disclaims all responsibility?

 

 

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I try not to read too deeply into the quagmire of NJ gun laws because if you do you'd find a rational that says you can even leave the house.

None of the vehicles in my family have a trunk, so I typically have my pistols in a range bag and ammo and (loaded) magazines in a separate zipper bag (it was lunch bag we used to use at the beach).

In the SUV vehicles I keep the bags all the way in back by the hatch.

In the pickup truck I put them under the back passenger seat (as far out of reach as possible).

If I get pulled over I'll let you know how it goes.  I'm not putting any more thought or prep into it...

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I have flown out of Newark many times with a handgun and ammunition with American or United. handgun was in a locked box (bulldog Co.) with a cable attached to the inner part of the luggage with gun unloaded and slide locked back , ammo and magazine(unloaded) was stored in a locked ammo can(inside luggage) or a similar plastic case. I only traveled with FMJ or hornady critical defense, incepter arx ammo. I declared my gun the second i walked up to the booth. No issues of any kind.

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On 6/26/2021 at 12:59 AM, robby said:

To be clear, i’m asking if it’s legal FROM an nj residence TO an nj range. I haven’t seen any statute that says this is not legal. If there is one, or a letter from NJSP that is what I am trying to find 

@robby welcome to the forum and to the world of gun ownership in NJ!  Beware of Keyboard Commandos and Trolls.  If you need help, just reach out and I'll try to help you.  In the meantime, some tongue-in-cheek "Rules"

 

Rule #1:  Don't actually READ the laws themselves.  They're somewhat contradictory & utterly confusing.  Read the EXCEPTIONS & EXEMPTIONS instead, as they are your friends :) 

Rule #2:  Learn what punctuation means, especially commas.  " , OR locked in the trunk of an automobile"  translates into this:  200 naked hand guns, no trigger locks, cases or pistol rugs.  Unloaded.  Scratchin' the crap outta each other as you hit every pothole in the road.  Completely legal.  Pop open trunk at an EXEMPT location, take out a naked hand gun and wrap it with brown craft paper & bakery string, tied "securely".  Walk it into the gun store, 'smith, range, your house, etc., your business that you own.  Lather, rinse, repeat with the other 199>>>>completely LEGAL!

Rule #3:  Don't confuse FOPA (interstate transport across state lines) with transport within NJ (inTRAstate).  Yes, while going to a NJ range or other EXEMPT location FROM a NJ EXEMPT location you can candy-ass it and lock everything up separately, OR do it like a competitive action shooter and just throw guns & ammo in the same bag but in separate compartments.

Rule #4:  Don't look for permission to breathe AIR or transport guns.  It doesn't exist.  Laws aren't designed to tell you what you CAN do, they're written to inform you what you CAN'T do.  So you already have discovered^^^ above.

I've got 50 years behind the trigger, my first hand gun was a "straw purchase" in 1977, prior to the term being invented.  It was LEGAL for a parent to buy a hand gun for their offspring and then immediately "sell" it to them at the same gun counter they themselves just bought it at.....  So I've done it all & seen it all.  I fight unconstitutional gun law every damn day for all of us.  Enjoy your firearms and join as many Jersey based 2A organizations as you can afford.  We're carrying your water.

If you get a chance, check out The DC Project and the Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners.  We work to make things better for all gun owners.  We hosted a fundraiser and Top Shot Gabby Franco and Dick Heller (the famous DC v. Heller SCOTUS case) gave speeches.  https://www.dcproject.info  https://www.cnjfo.com 

May be an image of 14 people and people standing

 

 

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