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leo-польд

Future of other in NJ

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1 minute ago, Sniper said:

If you look at that 4473 form, it lists the manufacturer and model number, so they would know based on that description, it was just a lower or a complete firearm.

So, if it is lower is untraceable? :) Do you think they care on what you have as long as they know your address?

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3 minutes ago, leo-польд said:

So, if it is lower is untraceable? :) Do you think they care on what you have as long as they know your address?

I think they care, even more now. That 4473 was revised recently where the firearm information was moved to the first page, along with the buyer information. The firearm information use to be on page 2. Now, they have everything they need on the first, scanable page.

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3 minutes ago, Sniper said:

I think they care, even more now. That 4473 was revised recently where the firearm information was moved to the first page, along with the buyer information. The firearm information use to be on page 2. Now, they have everything they need on the first, scanable page.

Ahh, you are safe!!! because if it is just lower in this form, lets dream about...

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1 hour ago, leo-польд said:

correct, but that is same form you your using while buying lower for other build

Even the manufacturer has to have marked and logged the models or recievers and serial #s they manufacturer.  The ATF has in the past collected manufacturer and ffl info to trace models to customers.

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1 hour ago, leo-польд said:

So, if it is lower is untraceable? :) Do you think they care on what you have as long as they know your address?

It's not about tracing it to a person. It's about knowing what exactly was sold to the individual. If you bought a purpose built model with a brace, just taking it off may not change how the ATF treats them. They then send out mass letters stating you bought a firearm that's now regulated. Obviously a reciever has no purpose when sold.

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6 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

It's not about tracing it to a person. It's about knowing what exactly was sold to the individual. If you bought a purpose built model with a brace, just taking it off may not change how the ATF treats them. They then send out mass letters stating you bought a firearm that's now regulated. Obviously a reciever has no purpose when sold.

Why do you think that they will not send the same to the receiver owners? No purpose?

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8 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

It's not about tracing it to a person. It's about knowing what exactly was sold to the individual. If you bought a purpose built model with a brace, just taking it off may not change how the ATF treats them. They then send out mass letters stating you bought a firearm that's now regulated. Obviously a reciever has no purpose when sold.

ANNND THIS part right here is a massive problem. in theory, they should have zero idea who owns what....but as i continuously state........pretty much everything bought through an ffl is registered in some way.

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20 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

ANNND THIS part right here is a massive problem. in theory, they should have zero idea who owns what....but as i continuously state........pretty much everything bought through an ffl is registered in some way.

Correct, I think even worse - they will care about builders first place. They do even now considering latest noise from there.

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24 minutes ago, leo-польд said:

Correct, I think even worse - they will care about builders first place. They do even now considering latest noise from there

 

So proof of a receiver purchase is somehow going to lead to proof of ownership of a newly classified NFA weapon? 
 

I understand everything’s traceable, but how is an 4473 with receiver being sold and a 4473 with an OTHER being sold the same. 
 

One is proof of ownership of newly classified NFA weapon. 

One is proof you own a receiver that you could of configured in any legal way. 

Am I missing something? 

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Just now, 0Jeep4 said:

 

So proof of a receiver purchase is somehow going to lead to proof of ownership of a newly classified NFA weapon? 
 

I understand everything’s traceable, but how is an 4473 with receiver being sold and a 4473 with an OTHER being sold the same. 
 

One is proof of ownership of newly classified NFA weapon. 

One is proof you own a receiver that you could of configured in any legal way. 

Am I missing something? 

According to the latest ATF developments - they do care about builders the most unfortunately. They don't like "ghost guns" etc the most. I think assumption they will forget about you just because you went to the FFL and got lower is wrong.

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1 minute ago, leo-польд said:

According to the latest ATF developments - they do care about builders the most unfortunately. They don't like "ghost guns" etc the most. I think assumption they will forget about you just because you went to the FFL and got lower is wrong.

If you acquire a finished lower through an FFL you are not building a "ghost gun". It is a recorded, serialized firearm being transferred.

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4 minutes ago, leo-польд said:

According to the latest ATF developments - they do care about builders the most unfortunately. They don't like "ghost guns" etc the most. I think assumption they will forget about you just because you went to the FFL and got lower is wrong.

“ghost guns” made from receiver blanks that you build that have no serial number are not the same as purchased receivers from a manufacturer  

You’re losing me fast here. 

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Just now, Mr.Stu said:

If you acquire a finished lower through an FFL you are not building a "ghost gun". It is a recorded, serialized firearm being transferred.

Again it is just an assumption, I think they will find all of us if they need. Per what I heard NJ police already said no to the builders of others in NJ, they don"t like modifications to the Troy and etc others we got as well.

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29 minutes ago, leo-польд said:

Per what I heard NJ police already said no to the builders of others in NJ, they don"t like modifications to the Troy and etc others we got as well.

Respectfully, this makes no sense to me.

What "NJ Police" are you referring to?

There's no inspection of firearms by "NJ Police" at gun ranges, and there's no door to door inspection by "NJ Police", so who exactly is "saying "no" and what are they saying it to?

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3 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

Respectfully, this makes no sense to me.

What "NJ Police" are you referring to?

There's no inspection of firearms by "NJ Police" at gun ranges, and there's no door to door inspection by "NJ Police", so who exactly is "saying "no" and what are they saying it to?

I think you are jumping ahead a lot, police could check your car while you are driving to the range or back as well. Per what I heard from my FFL who is former police officer and having connections there - no changes or builds for others is allowed. Yes you could install red dot, sling or scope. That is all I know. 

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58 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

Respectfully, this makes no sense to me.

What "NJ Police" are you referring to?

There's no inspection of firearms by "NJ Police" at gun ranges, and there's no door to door inspection by "NJ Police", so who exactly is "saying "no" and what are they saying it to?

yet

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1 hour ago, leo-польд said:

I think you are jumping ahead a lot, police could check your car while you are driving to the range or back as well. Per what I heard from my FFL who is former police officer and having connections there - no changes or builds for others is allowed. Yes you could install red dot, sling or scope. That is all I know. 

One thing you need to learn, to improve what you know, is that gun store staff and police officers are often not well informed about NJ gun laws. The 3rd reference that makes up the worst 3 places to get gun law advice is the internet, but that's where you posted, so I guess you got the trifecta.

Read the statutes. None of what you are saying is law. Could it become law given that the Dems hold both houses and the Governorship? Sure. Nonetheless, it is not law now, just what authoritarians would like to be law.

ETA: The police are not entitled to "check your car" as you're travelling to the range. Even if they are able to articulate reasonable suspicion that there are firearms in the car, there is no law being broken if you are travelling to the range. Once you give them that snippet of information their RS has evaporated, unless they can articulate why they have RS that you are not travelling to a range. Just because they may wish to inspect your firearms, doesn't mean they can.

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4 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

One thing you need to learn, to improve what you know, is that gun store staff and police officers are often not well informed about NJ gun laws. The 3rd reference that makes up the worst 3 places to get gun law advice is the internet, but that's where you posted, so I guess you got the trifecta.

Read the statutes. None of what you are saying is law. Could it become law given that the Dems hold both houses and the Governorship? Sure. Nonetheless, it is not law now, just what authoritarians would like to be law.

Who would doubt about? Discussion is build other is safer than buy factory made. Thinking that you are safe in this state because of your are building firearm is as you said 10-fecta or 100-fecta. :)

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5 hours ago, leo-польд said:

Why do you think that they will not send the same to the receiver owners? No purpose?

What are they going to say to someone who purchased a strip lower reciever? They have no idea what you built it into, or if you even built something at all with it. 

Then.... The point is, my built "other" never had a brace, if you say otherwise... prove it... you can't. 

 

If you bought a Troy a4 other the ATF knows it was manufactured with a brace on it. They already did this in CT with others and folders, and the honey badger.

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17 hours ago, Sniper said:

If you look at that 4473 form, it lists the manufacturer and model number, so they would know based on that description, it was just a lower or a complete firearm.

That is true, but they don't know if that firearm had a brace on it or not. And since we all established that a brace is not a must then I guess your gun came without one. Unless you think the ATF will start going to companies and asking them how exactly a specific model left the factory....

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1 hour ago, El Jefe said:

That is true, but they don't know if that firearm had a brace on it or not. And since we all established that a brace is not a must then I guess your gun came without one.

 

5 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

If you bought a Troy a4 other the ATF knows it was manufactured with a brace on it.

The 4473 has 5 line items: Manufacturer, Model, Serial Number, Type  and Caliber. I think they would have a pretty good idea what you have.

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2 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

I believe the general consensus is that if you remove the brace now you've got an sbr.

I think this statement needs a bit more clarification. 

An other does not need a brace and can have a bare reciever extension. 

If you purchased an other with a brace, and the ATF through its retarded points process determines its a SBR, taking the brace off according to them won't change their declaration of it being an SBR. 

 

It's all very convoluted. 

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17 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

I believe the general consensus is that if you remove the brace now you've got an sbr.

I think it is more a case of if they reclassify a brace as a stock, you have an SBR. I have a vague recollection that a stripped lower, once it has become a rifle, can never be reverted to anything else. Therefore, the only way to not have an SBR is to remove it before the stroke of a pen that makes the reclassification official. The instant that happens, faster than light, every non-NFA other across the country will instantly transform into highly concealable rifle without undergoing any physical changes whatsoever.

Whether you get into a bind with constructive intent by merely possessing a non-NFA without a brace-that-is-now-a-stock but also have a brace that is not attached to anything, I can't say.

It is all F-ing ridiculous!

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8 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

I have a vague recollection that a stripped lower, once it has become a rifle, can never be reverted to anything else.

First a rifle, always a rifle. First a handgun, you can go back and forth to a rifle. I never looked into "first an Other".

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2 hours ago, PK90 said:

First a rifle, always a rifle. First a handgun, you can go back and forth to a rifle. I never looked into "first an Other".

My point is that the instant a brace is deemed a stock, a non-NFA other instantly becomes a rifle (albeit short barreled) and that is irreversible. 

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Our Radical's have 13" Barrels.

 IF we have to adjust - we are going to add a long muzzle brake and Pin & Weld and be done with it, BUT I don't think it's gonna happen! Just on Pistols, that will be the extent IF they do anything....................jmo

 

 

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