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Supreme Court Takes First 2A Case in a Decade

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I don't like the court recognizing the existing laws regulating the existing  "sensitive areas" - govt buildings, schools etc. Thats what NJ and other anti-2A is going to go. Ray of hope is caution in the ruling about expanding that too broadly. But then again, "too broadly" is subject to interpretation and gonna take another 15 years for another case to go all the way to SCOTUS and who knows what by then.

---------- quote from ruling ------
But expanding the category of

“sensitive places” simply to all places of public congregation
that are not isolated from law enforcement defines the cat
-
egory of “sensitive places” far too broadly.

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The notary is for the applicant's signature, not the individual references.

The fingerprint investigation results need to go directly to the investigating authority.  That's why you need the ID number from your PD.

Hopefully they won't prohibit Public Transportation.  That's probably where folks need to protect themselves the most.  Train stations and their parking lots.

 

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I think Murphy will get slapped down by SCOTUS.  During the court proceedings they specifically talked about public transportation like the subway with regards to sensitive areas and indicated that it would make no sense to prohibit carry in the subway as that would prevent people from the most common mode of transport in the city.  Same for NJ...some people have to take the bus.  Also it sounds like he is parroting the historically (and current)  exclusionary nature of NJ's anti-gun bias where if you are not specifically allowed to have a gun in a particular location then you are prohibited from having a gun, so only ranges, your own home and a gun dealer plus travel between those permitted places is specifically allowed...reflected with his plans to require permission to carry on private property which would include most of NJ.  Essentially he trying to make a CCW a CCW in name only.  

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6 minutes ago, CJack said:

Whats the penalty for violating SCOTUS ruling ?  Whats the penalty for purposely circumventing SCOTUS ruling repeatedly ? Who enforces SCOTUS rulings ?

Well if we get a republican president, He can sic the national guard on them. Without that, but it'd actually have to go to court, SCOTUS could in theory hold members of our government in contempt and have the US marshals bring them before the court. Then in theory, since it is contempt, have them jailed. 

 

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7 hours ago, KurtC said:

I also believe they use the references to cover the issuing authority's butt, in case the permit holder does something stupid or irresponsible. 

They use it to make the process more difficult.  PERIOD.

Years ago I actually had to go to a police department and be interrogated when I was a personal reference for a friend's pistol permit.  It was completely absurd and WAY overboard.  But they wouldn't sign off on his pistol permits unless I did so.

Nothing to do with CYA on the issuing authority and EVERYTHING to do with making it more difficult for people to apply.

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7 hours ago, Downtownv said:

NEW JERSEY - Gov. Phil Murphy signed an executive order Friday directing all state agencies and departments to identify where firearms may be carried, regulated and prohibited in the Garden State, 

Murphy also announced his plans to immediately begin working with state lawmakers to expand the number of areas where firearms can't be carried, including locations with a high density of people, locations with "inherently vulnerable populations" and buildings where "important governmental or First Amendment-protected activities take place."

Among the areas that should be protected are sports stadiums, public transit, police stations, polling places, courthouses, restaurants, childcare centers, hospitals and bars, Murphy said at a news conference on Friday. Private property owners, including homeowners and business owners, should also be required to give permission for an individual to carry a firearm on a property, Murphy added.

 

 

By the time Murphy and his Apparatchiks get through identifying all the places concealed carry is NOT allowed we'll be back to transporting firearms unloaded in the trunk of the car..   :coffee:

 

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A quick recap of what we know so far.

1. We will need proof of training, but no one know the full parameters yet.

2. We understand the passport sized photos (4), 

3. Fingerprints done by morpho, ID provided by our local PD's.

4. References signed 3 times over and then each copy notarized.

5. After chief approval our app goes to the judge(for now atleast)

I understand 2-5 but, the question remains how will all of these requirements be integrated into FARS? I can't help but wonder if some of these requirements will be modified or eliminated to fit into the FARS system?

Another point that occurred to me! Since off duty cops in NJ are not required to have level 2 or 3 retention holsters to CCW. The same should apply to us! Regular kydex or leather holster etc, should be fine!

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7 hours ago, Downtownv said:

 

NEW JERSEY - Gov. Phil Murphy signed an executive order Friday directing all state agencies and departments to identify where firearms may be carried, regulated and prohibited in the Garden State, a

Murphy also announced his plans to immediately begin working with state lawmakers to expand the number of areas where firearms can't be carried, including locations with a high density of people, locations with "inherently vulnerable populations" and buildings where "important governmental or First Amendment-protected activities take place."

Among the areas that should be protected are sports stadiums, public transit, police stations, polling places, courthouses, restaurants, childcare centers, hospitals and bars, 

 

No CCW in Restaurants huh?

Does A-Hole Murphy mean restaurants like the Luby's In Texas where a gunman killed 23 people in 1991 and the push for concealed carry got started after a woman left her gun in the car because she didn't want to risk losing her chiropractic license and her parents were both murdered?

 

 

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1 minute ago, Bomber said:

No CCW in Restaurants huh?

Does A-Hole Murphy mean restaurants like the Luby's In Texas where a gunman killed 23 people in 1991 and the push for concealed carry got started after a woman left her gun the in the car because she didn't want to risk losing he chiropractic license and her parents both were murdered?

 

 

He cant! restaurants and many other locations he listed are PRIVATE PROPERTY. So, like in Florida only the property owners can boot you out. He can only prohibit carry on State owned property, but property owner will have the right to determine what they want on their own property.

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48 minutes ago, marlintag said:

A quick recap of what we know so far.

1. We will need proof of training, but no one know the full parameters yet.

2. We understand the passport sized photos (4), 

3. Fingerprints done by morpho, ID provided by our local PD's.

4. References signed 3 times over and then each copy notarized.

5. After chief approval our app goes to the judge(for now atleast)

I understand 2-5 but, the question remains how will all of these requirements be integrated into FARS? I can't help but wonder if some of these requirements will be modified or eliminated to fit into the FARS system?

Another point that occurred to me! Since off duty cops in NJ are not required to have level 2 or 3 retention holsters to CCW. The same should apply to us! Regular kydex or leather holster etc, should be fine!

They can easily use FARS to get an application started by using it for the initial background check, as done when applying for a purchase permit.  That would at least eliminate the trip to Morpho.

I've never had to use a level 2 or 3 holster to carry concealed.  The "concealment" adds an extra layer of retention.  The few times I've carried openly I used a lever 2.  My sidearms tend to be in the rare or collectable category, so I prefer Safariland holsters with the suede lining.  They protect the finish of the sidearm and are only about $40.  I believe the model is 5196.

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7 hours ago, JackDaWack said:

Reciprocity is sill a states right to choose who is allowed to carry bases on their own licensing program. 

NJ will most likely not be recognizing any out of state permits. Others states will make their own choices. 

 

States with no licenses to carry will be left in the dark with licensing states I am sure.

 

Wouldn't this ruling plus the 14thA make it so that all states who have CCW permits be reciprocal?   

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1 minute ago, ESB said:

 

Wouldn't this ruling plus the 14thA make it so that all states who have CCW permits be reciprocal?   

It's not clear to me how it would be interpreted, the opinion leaves licensing requirements wide open to states. 

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1 hour ago, marlintag said:

He cant! restaurants and many other locations he listed are PRIVATE PROPERTY. So, like in Florida only the property owners can boot you out. He can only prohibit carry on State owned property, but property owner will have the right to determine what they want on their own property.

No, he can prohibit a lot of places.  When I was in a Ranger Battalion at Ft. Benning, GA in the '80s, I had a GA carry permit.  It clearly stated on the permit that it was not valid at sporting events, churches or places that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises.  Florida had similar restrictions.  No part of an establishment where alcohol was the primary offering.  Restaurants OK, bars No Go.

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4 minutes ago, ESB said:

 

Wouldn't this ruling plus the 14thA make it so that all states who have CCW permits be reciprocal?   

No, because states have different requirements for the permit.  NJ is not going to honor any of the other states unless they have similar requirements, which I seriously doubt any have.

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1 hour ago, marlintag said:

He cant! restaurants and many other locations he listed are PRIVATE PROPERTY. So, like in Florida only the property owners can boot you out. He can only prohibit carry on State owned property, but property owner will have the right to determine what they want on their own property.

What Murphy can do for places out of his reach is promote "common sense " educational media to include the typical misleading data and free no guns allowed signs. I wouldn't put it passed that pos to even persuade the public to be wary of businesses that do allow.

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13 minutes ago, siderman said:

What Murphy can do for places out of his reach is promote ".......

Murphy will reach out to insurance companies and get them to pressure store owners to place no guns signs or face a surcharge or even termination of insurance.

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It would not surprise me in the least if NYC offers tax breaks to establishments that post "No Firearms" signs.

For anyone thinking they can ignore such signs and carry concealed into the building, the charge may only be criminal trespassing, but it will also get your permit revoked.

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The Safariland 568 is an excellent holster, but don't think they are currently in production.  I've been wearing one all evening with a Beretta PX4.  They are probably still available on Ebay.

 

 

Saf568.jpg

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22 minutes ago, KurtC said:

The Safariland 568 is an excellent holster, but don't think they are currently in production.  I've been wearing one all evening with a Beretta PX4.  They are probably still available on Ebay.

 

 

Saf568.jpg

i'll prolly carry my 92. i'd prefer iwb, but will do it however i can comfortably.

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53 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

i'll prolly carry my 92. i'd prefer iwb, but will do it however i can comfortably.

The Safariland paddle holsters are extremely comfortable.  I've had to stay in decent shape over the years and that flexible paddle keeps the sidearm from riding on my hip bone.  It also keeps the butt close to one's body.  I know I've used them with my 92D.

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Gov Murphy is doing everything he can to not comply with the Supreme Court's 2A decision.  The requirements and restrictions are clearly unconstituional.  Let's hope the pro-2nd Amendment groups, such as NRA and FPC, sue for compliance.  Imagine if anyone trying to exercise any other Constiutional right faced these hurdles, such as free speech and freedom of religion, the courts would step in right away.  2nd Amendment is now recognized as being on par with the rest of the Bill of Rights by the US Supreme Court.  Really hope the courts force NJ to comply on an expedited basis.
 

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19 hours ago, Downtownv said:

By All Means! They dropped Nagasaki on Thursday and Hiroshima on Friday and then they all went on summer break. PERFECT!

Reading the liberal rags, the best thing about the NY Ruling is roe v wade came the very next day. We are not on the NJ Medias radar. Vaginas rule the press, and that is great cover for us. The funny thing is nothing has change in NJ re abortion, but I like the diversion.

 

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