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Supreme Court Takes First 2A Case in a Decade

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I don't want to derail the thread, but even the NY State Supreme Court got a ruling right!

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/n-y-supreme-court-strikes-down-nyc-law-granting-voting-rights-to-noncitizen-residents/?%3Futm_source=newsletter

They struck down a NYC law that would have taken effect next year, and would have allowed an estimated 800,000 non-citizens to vote for mayor, public advocate, city council and borough presidents. 

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1 hour ago, CJack said:

thanks man. i'm gonna hit them with whatever questions i can think of tomorrow. i'm taking my lunch break to run down to the pd.

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3 hours ago, quikz said:

The NJ communistic style leadership can be onerous amd corrupt. Therefore, not integrating well with an overall democratic society. They basically did this to themselves. This was shared with me by a LE friend. It will have DIRECT Impact on jersey SCOTUS ordered 'Shall Issue' CCW policy. Good thing my jersey permit was renewed last month...

https://www.nj.com/politics/2022/06/nj-judge-shortage-reaching-crisis-level-with-huge-delays-for-thousands-this-is-catastrophic.html

 

Interesting. A “catastrophic” shortage of judges exists before even factoring in the forthcoming 200,000 CC applications. I am glad to hear that.  Will hopefully compel the judiciary to take themselves out of the CC application approval process. I.e. let the police chief give final approval as with FID and P2Ps.  The judges can still hear appeals to any denials. 

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Slow down.  Please listen to what @gunforhire and his guest had to say in their latest episode:

"Until we see statutes, we don't know what we'll be fighting." - Dan Schmutter, Esq.

The Gun For Hire Radio Broadcast: Episode 579 - Best Gun Range NYC and NJ Area | Gun Range Near Me

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3 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

Slow down.  Please listen to @gunforhire and his guest had to say in their latest episode:

"Until we see statutes, we don't know what we'll be fighting." - Dan Schmutter, Esq.

The Gun For Hire Radio Broadcast: Episode 579 - Best Gun Range NYC and NJ Area | Gun Range Near Me

Zackly!

 

 

 

 

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Once PD's  and judges get overwhelmed with applications, they will demand that the process gets streamlined. 

If you are going to apply now, I recommend following the established procedures.  You don't want your paperwork put in a "pending."  If you are willing to wait a month or two, things may get a lot simpler. 

I once had mine sitting at the County for 3 months because they were waiting on Morpho results.  Apparently the detective assigned to my investigation went out on extended leave without telling me I needed to get fingerprinted again. 

 

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8 minutes ago, KurtC said:

Once PD's  and judges get overwhelmed with applications, they will demand that the process gets streamlined. 

If you are going to apply now, I recommend following the established procedures.  You don't want your paperwork put in a "pending."  If you are willing to wait a month or two, things may get a lot simpler. 

I once had mine sitting at the County for 3 months because they were waiting on Morpho results.  Apparently the detective assigned to my investigation went out on extended leave without telling me I needed to get fingerprinted again. 

 

What about the history of permitting in nj makes you think that will happen rather than just shrugging and making it take as long as possible. 

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6 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

What about the history of permitting in nj makes you think that will happen rather than just shrugging and making it take as long as possible. 

PD's are already short staffed.  They won't have the Detectives available to do this many background investigations.  They won't want the paperwork piling up in their offices.  Some PD's are easily going to get applications numbering in the hundreds.

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31 minutes ago, KurtC said:

PD's are already short staffed.  They won't have the Detectives available to do this many background investigations.  They won't want the paperwork piling up in their offices.  Some PD's are easily going to get applications numbering in the hundreds.

They’ll do what they do now. Avoid doing it at all. 

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5 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

 

i just hung up with my pd. lady was friendly. said i could stop in any time to pick up application. told me it's all on paper.

 

 

I read elsewhere that some are getting the runaround with PD by them saying they can’t apply in person/paper but have to go through FARS even though that doesn’t do CCW yet. 

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1 hour ago, KurtC said:

PD's are already short staffed.  They won't have the Detectives available to do this many background investigations.  They won't want the paperwork piling up in their offices.  Some PD's are easily going to get applications numbering in the hundreds.

NJ state law says 60 days to render an approval or denial, after 60 its automatically approved. 

 

There is no NJ precedent they can take longer like with FPIDs, and FPIDs wouldn't result in auto approval anyway because the statute doesn't say that. 

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7 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

NJ state law says 60 days to render an approval or denial, after 60 its automatically approved. 

Approved by who?

Your paperwork is still sitting in a pile beneath 100 others.

That's the Catch 22.  Even if it automatically approved, you won't see it until makes its way through the channels and the actual permit gets typed up by the County Clerk. 

I don't advise carrying until the permit is in your wallet. 

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3 minutes ago, KurtC said:

Approved by who?

Your paperwork is still sitting in a pile beneath 100 others.

That's the Catch 22.  Even if it automatically approved, you won't see it until makes its way through the channels and the actual permit gets typed up by the County Clerk. 

I don't advise carrying until the permit is in your wallet. 

I dont recall who, but the statute did say a specific person, which I assume is the authorizing individual. 

 

As always I advise nothing but what the statute says. 

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2 hours ago, KurtC said:

Once PD's  and judges get overwhelmed with applications, they will demand that the process gets streamlined. 

If you are going to apply now, I recommend following the established procedures.  You don't want your paperwork put in a "pending."  If you are willing to wait a month or two, things may get a lot simpler. 

I once had mine sitting at the County for 3 months because they were waiting on Morpho results.  Apparently the detective assigned to my investigation went out on extended leave without telling me I needed to get fingerprinted again. 

 

I tend to agree. I also think PDs and judges (to the extent the latter remain in the process) will NOT be looking for any bs excuse to deny -- because they'll know denied applicants will cure and re-submit, adding to the already overwhelming workload. i think PDs will eventually get to the point where they want to process these apps as fast as possible, so they can move on and be done with it. If you consider the number of CPLs in other states, the number of NJ apps could approach one million.

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25 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

NJ state law says 60 days to render an approval or denial, after 60 its automatically approved. 

 

There is no NJ precedent they can take longer like with FPIDs, and FPIDs wouldn't result in auto approval anyway because the statute doesn't say that. 

Exactly. I found this, too. Although they may change the Administrative Code.

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Eventually, any actual denials will occur at the PD level.   Background check, wrong paperwork, no qualification, etc.

Once it gets to the County it will only be a paper drill.   Type up the permit and have a judge sign it. Eventually, his hand will cramp up and they'll use a rubber stamp. 

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1 hour ago, voyager9 said:

I read elsewhere that some are getting the runaround with PD by them saying they can’t apply in person/paper but have to go through FARS even though that doesn’t do CCW yet. 

well when i walk in there tomorrow, i'll have my cell phone recording. no video, just audio. just in case.  'cept for slow-walking a couple of my p2p's(and i'm not totally sure that was a deliberate thing as i know they were shorthanded at the time) they've generally been pretty straightforward with me concerning my firearms.....

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56 minutes ago, samiam said:

A buddy of mine who is retired LEO, former NJSP, told me he has zero expectation that the 60 day limit will be honored, any more than the 45 day limit has been. That may not be a precedent in the court decision sense, but it seems to be one in the procedural and responsibility evasion context. 

Doesn't matter. 

The 30 day rule for fpid and permits doesn't have an "automatically approved" attached to it. 

Tables are a bit turned with that difference. If the administrative codes say 60 days or an auto approval, if they go beyond 60 days it's just that. 

 

If the FPID, or permits takes more thst 30 days, they don't get the same rubber stamp approval. The PDs in that case were absolved from the 30 day limit, because there is no recourse for taking longer. 

 

I'm sure some of this will change. 

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12 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Tables are a bit turned with that difference. If the administrative codes say 60 days or an auto approval, if they go beyond 60 days it's just that. 

You still wouldn't have the permit in hand though, right?  So what does auto approval really mean?

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