Jump to content
Bklynracer

Supreme Court Takes First 2A Case in a Decade

Recommended Posts

43 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

soo...these ranges are accessible to non-leo?

It isn't certain what the training requirements will be for NJ CHP for non-LEO, non-RPO individuals. One of my concerns is that the application and requirements will change radically, and NJ will take that opportunity to toss all CHP apps from us plebes and tell us to "start over"...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

thanks. so three endorsements. leads me to a question. one person i may use, i've known since 1979. he had a felony charge for beating the snot outta a couple police officers that bumrushed his house in 1977. nothing since then. bad idea to use him?

Hard to say. If you have a good alternative to the guy, it might be safer to swiitch. Has he tried for expungement? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, samiam said:

Hard to say. If you have a good alternative to the guy, it might be safer to swiitch. Has he tried for expungement? 

he says he doesn't care.....he's almost 70, and thinks it wouldn't make any difference for him at this point

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

Unfortunately the decision states that apps, permits, and qual are still allowed. They state that may-issue is unconstitutional and shall-issue must be the law of the land.

Permits are still allowed, which clearly implies the need for applications. Qualification, I'm not so sure. The opinion is steeped in examining the right from a specific historical perspective - how much qualification was required to carry a firearm in public at the time the 14th (or 2nd) Amendments were enacted? My suspicion is that ultimately states will be allowed to require training, but possibly not qualification, per se. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CMJeepster said:

The headline has it exactly backwards,  the ruling told New York to stop giving the middle finger to gun owners.

The 'Broaden Gun Rights' bit is another thing most of the press reports today are getting wrong.   The Supreme Court is not 'broadening gun rights', rather they are making clear that NY and a few other repressive states have been wrong this whole time.

They're not saying 'do something new', they're saying 'this is how you should have been doing it all along'. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, gleninjersey said:

If I had to guess they will all most likely be offering it as a service to non-LEO ASAP 

Why wouldn't they?

If anyone intends to quickly apply (I am considering doing so) I recommend trying to find a course ASAP. The current offerings are sized by anticipated demand from LEOs and RPOs, it will take some time to ramp up by a factor of, what - 100 - 1000? They are going to be swamped. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gleninjersey said:

List of ranges to for qualifying score that you'll need to provide when applying for NJ Conceal Carry License.

https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/shooting-ranges.shtml

I guess it's time to start looking at the 'Conceal Carry" section on the forum.   :)

What is the course of fire, and target that you have to hit?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

Gonna be real interesting to see what the NJ legislature does with the 7 or 9 or whatever new bills they're chewing through right now, as in today.

Yeah, the near future is going to be quite interesting. Not only for those bills, but generally. Thomas' opinion not only disallowed the demonstrated need requirement for concealed carry. As I read it, by elevating a modified Heller (modified by removing the ends-means analysis) decision to be the gold standard for 2A cases, it lays the groundwork for rejecting and/or overturning a whole crapload of other restrictions. Another thought is that I see nothing in the Bruen decision that restricts its effect to concealed carry.

I am also interested in whether states that now restrict CHP for non-residents to those who hold a permit in their state of residence will except residents of states that (try to) remain "may issue" from that requirement, and how long that might take. Seems to me this decision has some implications for the legality of that requirement, even in a "shall issue" state.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JFCOAB! Will some of you please just stop spouting conjecture and look up what you need to do?

Quote

§ 13:54-2.4 Application for a permit to carry a handgun

(a) Every person applying for a permit to carry a handgun shall furnish such information and particulars as set forth in the application form designated SP 642. The application shall be signed by the applicant under oath and shall be endorsed by three reputable persons who have known the applicant for at least three years preceding the date of application, and who shall also certify thereon that the applicant is a person of good moral character and behavior. Applications can be obtained at police departments and State Police stations.
(b) Each applicant shall demonstrate a thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns by indicating in the space provided therefor on the application form, and on any sworn attachments thereto, any relevant information. Thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns shall be evidenced by:
1. Completion of a firearms training course substantially equivalent to the firearms training approved by the Police Training Commission as described by N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6j;
2. Submission of an applicant's most recent handgun qualification scores utilizing the handgun(s) he or she intends to carry as evidenced by test firings administered by a certified firearms instructor of a police academy, a certified firearms instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified firearms instructor; or
3. Passage of any test in this State's laws governing the use of force administered by a certified instructor of a police academy, a certified instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified instructor.
(c) The information in (b) above shall be accompanied and validated by certifications of the appropriate instructor(s).
(d) Each application form shall also be accompanied by a written certification of justifiable need to carry a handgun, which shall be under oath and which:
1. In the case of a private citizen, shall specify in detail the urgent necessity for self-protection, as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks, which demonstrate a special danger to the applicant's life that cannot be avoided by means other than by issuance of a permit to carry a handgun. Where possible, the applicant shall corroborate the existence of any specific threats or previous attacks by reference to reports of such incidents to the appropriate law enforcement agencies; or
2. In the case of employees of private detective agencies, armored car companies and private security companies, that:
i. In the course of performing statutorily authorized duties, the applicant is subject to a substantial threat of serious bodily harm; and
ii. That carrying a handgun by the applicant is necessary to reduce the threat of unjustifiable serious bodily harm to any person.
(e) The completed application together with two sets of the applicant's fingerprints and fees as established by N.J.A.C. 13:59 in accordance with N.J.S.A. 53:1-20.5 et seq., four photographs (1 1/2 x 1 1/2 square), a consent for mental health records search form designated S.P. 66, and a permit fee of $ 20.00 payable to the County Clerk where the permit is to be issued shall be submitted to the chief police officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides, or the Superintendent:
1. If there is no chief police officer in the municipality where the applicant resides; or
2. If the applicant is a non-resident of this State or if the applicant is an employee of an armored car company.
(f) An application for a permit to carry a handgun shall be prioritized and be investigated on an expedited basis and approved or disapproved without undue delay, within 14 days if possible, under the following circumstances:
1. The applicant is a private citizen who applies for a permit to purchase a handgun and/or a firearm purchaser identification card contemporaneously with the application for a permit to carry a handgun or who has previously obtained a handgun purchase permit from the same licensing authority; and
i. Has been the victim of an act of violence that resulted in the infliction of serious or significant bodily injury, or was credibly threatened with an act of violence that if carried out would result in the infliction of serious or significant bodily injury, or subjected to an incident in which the actor was armed with and used a deadly weapon or threatened by word or gesture to use a deadly weapon as defined in N.J.S.A. 2C:11-1.c against the applicant, and there is a substantial likelihood, based on the information presented in the applicant's State of New Jersey Request for Expedited Firearms Application form (S.P. 398), and any other information revealed in the investigation of the application, that the applicant will in the foreseeable future be subjected to another such incident; or
ii. Is protected by a court order or under a condition imposed by the court restraining another person from contact with the applicant, and there is a substantial likelihood, based on the information presented in the applicant's State of New Jersey Request for Expedited Firearms Application form and any other information revealed in the investigation of the application, that the applicant will in the foreseeable future be subjected to an act of violence that if carried out would result in the infliction of serious or significant bodily injury, or be subjected to an incident in which the actor is armed with and would use a deadly weapon or threaten by word or gesture to use a deadly weapon as defined in N.J.S.A. 2C:11-1.c against the applicant;
2. An applicant who meets the criteria in (f)1i or ii above shall be deemed to have demonstrated justifiable need (as set forth in N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.3(a)3); and
3. Approval of an expedited firearms application request does not automatically denote approval for a permit to carry a handgun. All applicants are subject to the provisions set forth in this chapter for final approval and issuance of cards and permits.

Read this and read it again if you don't get it the first time.

Pay particular attention to part b) - you have to satisfy ONE of the THREE requirements. Number 2 is a shooting qualification. You don't need to do a class at all - assuming you can shoot already.

If you can't pass the shooting qualification today, walking onto the range cold with no warm-up, I strongly recommend getting basic firearms and marksmanship training before even thinking of carrying in public. Having your gun on you does jack shit if you don't know how to use it without hitting things other than your target.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know we are all excited and you all want to apply but i think patience is needed here.  If you listen to these videos/podcats from the ANJRPC & GFH you can see what i am talking about.  Something needs to "trigger" the state to act or change the requirements.

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/716827433/e09b4eef73

The Gun For Hire Radio Broadcast: Episode 577 - Best Gun Range NYC and NJ Area | Gun Range Near Me

Congrats to @gunforhire for all his hard work that finally paid off & sticking his neck out for all us!  Congrats to ANJRPC also.

I know many of us knock the NRA etc and sometime its valid.  In this case, the NRA has come through and they should also take some credit for this - like it or not.  (no i dont like wayne but the NRA is the most established org - i am not giving up on them yet)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Fred2 said:

What is the course of fire, and target that you have to hit?

 

 

 

A good indication of being qualified would be to shoot the NJ Police HQC1 or HQC2 course of fire. Details are here: https://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/firearms2001.pdf

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

JFCOAB! Will some of you please just stop spouting conjecture and look up what you need to do?

Read this and read it again of you don't get it the first time.

Pay particular attention to part b) - you have to satisfy ONE of the THREE requirements. Number 2 is a shooting qualification. You don't need to do a class at all - assuming you can shoot already.

If you can't pass the shooting qualification today, walking onto the range cold with no warm-up, I strongly recommend getting basic firearms and marksmanship training before even thinking of carrying in public. Having your gun on you does jack shit if you don't know how to use it without hitting things other than your target.

You are assuming that those requirements don't get substantially modified in some way or other as a result of Bruen. I think that is a huge assumption.  

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

Gonna be real interesting to see what the NJ legislature does with the 7 or 9 or whatever new bills they're chewing through right now, as in today.

Pass them?

We should've have been campaigning for Sweeney's re-election, he was the last of what could be called a moderate democrat in N.J. they're all hard core Leftists now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, samiam said:

You are assuming that those requirements don't get substantially modified in some way or other as a result of Bruen. I think that is a huge assumption.  

Can't you just take the win?

Some sage advice - "Don't go borrowing trouble"

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, samiam said:

You are assuming that those requirements don't get substantially modified in some way or other as a result of Bruen. I think that is a huge assumption.  

I'm not assuming anything, but I do know they can't just change them on a whim. The NJAC has a process which must be followed to make any changes - and that includes drafting the change, publishing it in the NJ Register, waiting a required period for public comment followed by a review. That all takes time and I'm planning to get my application in next week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hochul in her address:

"Does everyone understand what a concealed weapon means? That you have no forewarning, that someone can hide a weapon on them and go into our subways, go into our grocery stores like stores in Buffalo NY where I'm from. Go into a school in Parkland or Uvalde."

Yes governor, we understand that. Because it happens every single day in New York State. ALL your laws are totally INEFFECTIVE against CRIMINALS.

This SCOTUS ruling simply assures that citizens can be equipped to immediately defend themselves against those criminals if they choose to. BECAUSE YOUR LAWS GUARANTEE NOTHING!

NY Gov. Hochul Reacts Live to ‘Absolutely Shocking’ SCOTUS Ruling: ‘I’m Sorry This Dark Day Has Come’ (msn.com)

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Pay particular attention to part b) - you have to satisfy ONE of the THREE requirements. Number 2 is a shooting qualification. You don't need to do a class at all - assuming you can shoot already.

I can't find the "or" in that section.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, CMJeepster said:

I can't find the "or" in that section.

It is right at the end of option 2
 
1. Completion of a firearms training course substantially equivalent to the firearms training approved by the Police Training Commission as described by N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6j;
2. Submission of an applicant's most recent handgun qualification scores utilizing the handgun(s) he or she intends to carry as evidenced by test firings administered by a certified firearms instructor of a police academy, a certified firearms instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified firearms instructor; or
3. Passage of any test in this State's laws governing the use of force administered by a certified instructor of a police academy, a certified instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified instructor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

A good indication of being qualified would be to shoot the NJ Police HQC1 or HQC2 course of fire. Details are here: http://chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/firearms2001.pdf

Bad URL. Here's the fix. (Don't need the chrome part.)

firearms2001.pdf (state.nj.us)

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:
It is right at the end of option 2
 
1. Completion of a firearms training course substantially equivalent to the firearms training approved by the Police Training Commission as described by N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6j;
2. Submission of an applicant's most recent handgun qualification scores utilizing the handgun(s) he or she intends to carry as evidenced by test firings administered by a certified firearms instructor of a police academy, a certified firearms instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified firearms instructor; or
3. Passage of any test in this State's laws governing the use of force administered by a certified instructor of a police academy, a certified instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified instructor.

Crap.  I gotta get my eyes checked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

Can't you just take the win?

Some sage advice - "Don't go borrowing trouble"

Sure. I did. I have. I'm just advising caution in advising people on what the detailed requirements for NJ citizen CHP will be based on what is currently required for police. Before you tell me that those are the requirements for everyone now, I'd bet good money that the people who created them knew damned well that they weren't going to be letting any ordinary folks carry. I think its prudent to expect some changes in the process. Hopefully those changes make things easier for the rest of us, not harder...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...