Supreme Court Takes First 2A Case in a Decade

[revenger 473]

5 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

Everything I've read/heard (including the ANJRPC/Schmutter video and the latest Gun For Hire Podcast with Scott Bach of ANJRPC) says trying to prep is a crapshoot, because no one knows for certain how the state of NJ will react if we get a favorable decision in Bruen that makes the justifiable need requirement unconstitutional.

Best case scenario I've heard -  NJ judges stop enforcing the justifiable need portion immediately after the Bruen decision and/or the NJ Attorney General issues guidance that justifiable need is no longer a requirement.

In that scenario, you could prep by passing a live fire qualification course at a recognized range that also does LEO/SORA qualifications and then submit your carry permit application as "normal".  Depending on your police chief's proclivities, it may get denied by her/him, in which case you would appeal and it would come before a judge, or the chief approves it and then it goes before a judge anyway.  Schmutter has suggested that judges might not adhere to the justifiable need requirement if SCOTUS has ruled it unconstitutional because they (NJ Judges) may be subject to sanctions/liability otherwise.

   A good plan executed NOW with vigor is better than perfect plan executed 10 minutes late.   G.S.P.

 

  I have mentioned this in several posts recently,   Have the Florida / Utah classes changed into a NJ class NOW.   This way 100,000 applications can be submitted on day 1

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

And don't forget the Use of Force classroom training that all cops get at the academy.

That will remain on top of the Range Qual requirements for carry permits here in the PRNJ

[1LtCAP 4,263]

3 hours ago, EX Carnival man said:

You really think cops will have to follow the same rules as us little people? 

they don't now, so no......

[Mr.Stu 1,921]

5 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said:

And don't forget the Use of Force classroom training that all cops get at the academy.

That will remain on top of the Range Qual requirements for carry permits here in the PRNJ

Read this section of the admin code again (I posted it earlier)

Quote

(b) Each applicant shall demonstrate a thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns by indicating in the space provided therefor on the application form, and on any sworn attachments thereto, any relevant information. Thorough familiarity with the safe handling and use of handguns shall be evidenced by:

1. Completion of a firearms training course substantially equivalent to the firearms training approved by the Police Training Commission as described by N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6j;

2. Submission of an applicant's most recent handgun qualification scores utilizing the handgun(s) he or she intends to carry as evidenced by test firings administered by a certified firearms instructor of a police academy, a certified firearms instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified firearms instructor; or

3. Passage of any test in this State's laws governing the use of force administered by a certified instructor of a police academy, a certified instructor of the National Rifle Association, or any other recognized certified instructor.

You have to fulfill 1, 2 OR 3, not 1, 2 AND 3. To save you looking it up 2c:39-6j is:

Quote

j.   A person shall qualify for an exemption from the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-5, as specified under subsections a. and c. of this section, if the person has satisfactorily completed a firearms training course approved by the Police Training Commission.

   The exempt person shall not possess or carry a firearm until the person has satisfactorily completed a firearms training course and shall annually qualify in the use of a revolver or similar weapon. For purposes of this subsection, a "firearms training course" means a course of instruction in the safe use, maintenance and storage of firearms which is approved by the Police Training Commission.  The commission shall approve a firearms training course if the requirements of the course are substantially equivalent to the requirements for firearms training provided by police training courses which are certified under section 6 of P.L.1961, c.56 (C.52:17B-71). A person who is specified in paragraph (1), (2), (3), or (6) of subsection a. of this section shall be exempt from the requirements of this subsection.

As noted above, this is only 1 of 3 options. Satisfying #2 is probably the easiest as there are instructors who already run quals for RPO and SORA folks.

[EX Carnival man 223]

31 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

they don't now, so no......

Maybe they will just fall under new LEOSA rules?  Government likes to say we're all equal but we know that's not always true.  Especially when it comes to the 2nd amendment here in NJ. If we were all equal we wouldn't be having this conversation about the right to carry in this state. 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Mr.Stu 1,921]

1 minute ago, samiam said:

I logged back in because I missed the word "sims" when I read your post in my email. Whew! The thought that anyone would conduct training involving participants pointing functional handguns that were alleged to be empty at each other was truly frightening. I would hope that even in NJ, no one would be that stupid...

Lol. I think I'm reasonably good, but I'm not that sure.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

NYS and NYC are getting antsy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/06/nyregion/gun-control-supreme-court-nyc.html

Quote

 

"But across the city and state, authorities are bracing for a ruling, expected from the United States Supreme Court this month, which could strike down a century-old New York State law that places strict limits on the carrying of handguns."

"In New York, Gov. Kathy Hochul has said that she would consider calling a special session of the State Legislature if the law were overturned."

"A spokeswoman for the governor declined to elaborate further on the preparations."

"Local officials are also readying their offices. On Tuesday, Mayor Eric Adams said that in preparation, he and others were looking to draft legislation on the federal, state and local levels, adding that the impending ruling keeps him 'up at night.'"

"And last week, the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, sent an email to his prosecutors saying that his team was planning to work with Ms. Hochul, Mr. Adams and other district attorneys on new legislation to 'protect New Yorkers and withstand legal challenge.'"

"Mr. Aborn said he was hoping that Mr. Adams and the five city district attorneys stress to the public, should there be changes to the law, that background checks and licenses would still be required to acquire guns."

 

 

[raz-0 1,259]

11 hours ago, Newtonian said:

There can be no challenges to SCOTUS rulings. What will instead occur is NJ and NY will institute clearly unconstitutional (and anti-ruling) training or financial requirements, which will have to be litigated, which will take time...unless the ruling somehow warns states not to f**k around.

If anyone who knows the application process decides to start that thread, please notify us here.

Keep in mind there are cases at scotus being held. They are likely waiting on this decision. If that’s the case they will be remanded to the circuit court and even though we have perhaps the worse circuit in the country in terms of following the previous rulings (yeah the 9th wins by volume, but ours literally quote the dissent in heller as if it was the ruling), they have had new appointments since then and i wouldn’t be surprised if the demand back to them came with a fuck around and find out love note from Thomas. 
 

NJ may be scrambling more and sooner than they think. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

4 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

Keep in mind there are cases at scotus being held. They are likely waiting on this decision. If that’s the case they will be remanded to the circuit court and even though we have perhaps the worse circuit in the country in terms of following the previous rulings (yeah the 9th wins by volume, but ours literally quote the dissent in heller as if it was the ruling), they have had new appointments since then and i wouldn’t be surprised if the demand back to them came with a fuck around and find out love note from Thomas. 
 

NJ may be scrambling more and sooner than they think. 

I have a little bit of dealing with courts.  If a superior court reminds a decision to a lower court, they're saying, "you screwed up on this, look at it again".  

[45Doll 5,877]

Will the Supreme Court put a stake through the heart of gun control? - American Thinker

[45Doll 5,877]

"Has Justice Thomas persuaded other justices to settle the Second Amendment question permanently and completely?"

It’s Time for the Supreme Court to Put Restrictive Gun Laws to Bed - American Thinker

We can only hope.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

48 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

"Has Justice Thomas persuaded other justices to settle the Second Amendment question permanently and completely?"

It’s Time for the Supreme Court to Put Restrictive Gun Laws to Bed - American Thinker

We can only hope.

We already know (District of Columbia v. Heller) that carrying a weapon is a right, not a privilege.

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False.  Did not read past this.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[CMJeepster 2,778]

Meanwhile, in Ohio:  Ohio law ending conceal carry permit mandate goes into effect Monday: What to know (msn.com)

[voyager9 3,434]

9 hours ago, CMJeepster said:

We already know (District of Columbia v. Heller) that carrying a weapon is a right, not a privilege.

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False.  Did not read past this.

It kind of did.  Scalia went into a lot of detail about how bear arms means carry.  This was foundational to Heller since DC banned carrying even in your home.   What they didn’t do is address whether government interests allow them to restrict that right outside the home.  

[revenger 473]

anyone have the link to the SC docket.

[raz-0 1,259]

1 hour ago, revenger said:

anyone have the link to the SC docket.

Because they are so behind, we are getting rulings on Monday and Wednesday. 

[revenger 473]

what the best site to watch for a ruling

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[revenger 473]

On 6/11/2022 at 3:08 PM, samiam said:

It occured to me that, even in the event that a favorable ruling does not produce quick compliance by NJ, it might expand my carry privileges elsewhere. As I mentioned in another post, I hold CHP for Utah, Virginia, Florida, and New Hampshire. In aggregate, that allows me to carry in 35-ish states. The remaining states fall into one of two categories. There are a small number that, like NJ & NY, pretty much lock down concealed carry to LE and deny it to everyone else. There are also a few that are substantially "shall issue" states, but with the prereqisite that an out-of-state applicant must hold a CHP in his or her state of residence. I suspect that, in the event of a broad favorable ruling, those states might begin to waive that requirement for other states that are out of step with it, I just don't know how long it would take. 

The concealed carry courses for the out of state permits that are being administered by some of the gun groups in NJ should have converted to NJ permit classes when the SC first took this case,  This way if a favorable ( constitutional ) opinion we could have all submitted them that day.     now were behind the curve and the state will fire the first shot instead of us.

[revenger 473]

I have to hope that with all the domestic terrorists and democrats illegally protesting at the SC justices homes that they get "woke" and realize what we go through and come out with a stronger ruling in Americas favor.

[bennj 215]

Or be intimidated by them and punt again. Afterall, would you depend on the WH, DOJ, FBI, LE or any of the other gov't. alphabet groups to protect you and your family?

[1LtCAP 4,263]

1 hour ago, bennj said:

Or be intimidated by them and punt again. Afterall, would you depend on the WH, DOJ, FBI, LE or any of the other gov't. alphabet groups to protect you and your family?

this is my worry/

[JohnnyB 4,325]

34 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

this is my worry/

No need to worry.....The democrat party will be screwed royally in November and deservedly so!

We are coming back!

[45Doll 5,877]

11 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

We are coming back!

I admire your confidence, but I remain very skeptical for the following reasons:

- Even if Republicans take the Senate and House, Biden will still be president. (Unless...)

- A Republican Senate and House guarantees nothing truly constructive. See Trump's first two years. There will still be too many RINOs to actually reverse course on anything.

- To truly 'come back' as a country, at least the top five management layers of every federal department and agency would have to be purged to get rid of the entrenched progressives who are really running things. Starting with the FBI, Justice, IRS, Education, Defense and DHS.

- The alien invasion at the southern border will continue unrestricted. IMO we have already had our populous polluted with enough non-US-oriented foreigners to guarantee a never ending incoming stream of dependent aliens (plus relatives and friends) who are not interested in preserving the United States as conceived.

I could go on, but I won't. Time will tell.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

Monday, allegedly:  Supreme Court to announce rulings Monday | Watch (msn.com)

[raz-0 1,259]

28 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

Monday, allegedly:  Supreme Court to announce rulings Monday | Watch (msn.com)

Click bait. nobody knows. What we do know it they have a ton of backlog and have scheduled both Monday and Wednesday this week. Presumably we will see that continue to the end of the session. But claiming the big ones are dropping next gets clicks, so clicks they will farm. 

i will still bet money it’s nysrpa it’s last day of the session.  

[Displaced Texan 11,742]

3 hours ago, 45Doll said:

I admire your confidence, but I remain very skeptical for the following reasons:

- Even if Republicans take the Senate and House, Biden will still be president. (Unless...)

- A Republican Senate and House guarantees nothing truly constructive. See Trump's first two years. There will still be too many RINOs to actually reverse course on anything.

- To truly 'come back' as a country, at least the top five management layers of every federal department and agency would have to be purged to get rid of the entrenched progressives who are really running things. Starting with the FBI, Justice, IRS, Education, Defense and DHS.

- The alien invasion at the southern border will continue unrestricted. IMO we have already had our populous polluted with enough non-US-oriented foreigners to guarantee a never ending incoming stream of dependent aliens (plus relatives and friends) who are not interested in preserving the United States as conceived.

I could go on, but I won't. Time will tell.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. 
 

When the GOP had control of the house and senate, they didn’t do a whole hell of a lot with it. 
 

I am a pessimist when it comes to this…but I hope I’m proven wrong.