gun safety rule# 1 alec baldwin

[raz-0 1,037]

3 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

Brandon Lee was killed by a bullet fragment during a scene in which blanks were supposed to be fired from a .44 Magnum 

In an earlier special-effects scene, a .44-caliber bullet was fired from the same gun. That bullet broke apart, leaving a piece lodged in the barrel. No one properly checked or cleaned the gun before placing it in storage, and it was pulled out for Lee’s scene because it contained dummy rounds.

During Lee’s scene, the fragment fired out of the barrel.

 

Brandon lee died because the set was run like shit. They were asking the armorer to do stupid stuff for stupid long hours and he walked. They decided to amateur hour making dummy rounds form commercial ammo with a set of pliers. They left the dummy rounds with live primers. This caused a squib, and the bullet lodged in the barrel. Then the blank cause the bullet to get shot just like a real cartridge. 

It seems that the union camera crew walked off the set the morning before this shit went down on Rust, and one of the reasons they walked walked was the gun safety on the set. So the DP was behind the camera because the camera operator said screw you and your bullshit. 

The more I hear about this, the more I think Alec needs to be held responsible. Being the guy who pulled the trigger AND the guy effectively responsible for managing the picture as a whole. Or at least one of them, and on set to know how out of hand things were getting. 

[1LtCAP 3,272]

i don't dislike the guy.

 fact is that if he wasn't famous, he'd be sitting int he greybar motel right now. there is no excuse for him to not be. it wasn't an accident. it was negligence.

[kc17 539]

1 hour ago, Mr.Stu said:

He is only a murderer if he intended to kill the victim.

Guilty of homicide, for sure. Not necessarily murder.

Consider if you shot and killed someone in self defense. You would have caused the death of that someone, but it would not have been murder.

There are other degrees of homicide between a justified killing and murder, too.

Point taken and I agree, I used the wrong noun. 

I still say he bears responsibility in the death of a woman and should be treated like any other random person would be and face the consequences of his actions. 

[gleninjersey 1,738]

4 hours ago, High Exposure said:

It’s the prop masters job to “handle” the firearms. It’s the actors job to do as they are “directed” with the firearms.

The actor is the one holding the firearm, pointing it and pulling trigger.  

I don't care if Jerry Miculek is the prop master.  If anyone hands me a firearm then I'm checking it.  PERIOD.

Learn how to properly handle a firearm if a good part of your living comes from pretending you are shooting firearms.

[High Exposure 4,791]

No. That’s like blaming a NASCAR driver for a crash during a race that kills someone or a boxer the kills someone in the ring. 

The actors are being instructed by a director where to point and when to shoot. Everyone is on board:
it’s in the script
the insurance riders
it’s been rehearsed and practiced
reviews by safety and stunt people
agrees to by contract lawyers
it is possibly even a second or third take

The actor is trusting that the prop-masters/armorers/safety people have all done their job correctly. 

He didn’t just pick a gun off the table at someone’s home and point it and shoot it at someone. He didn’t swap the armorers load out with live ammo, or use his own gun. This was a professional action agreed upon by all parties involved. Hell, the victims were behind a camera placed and designed to catch the gun firing for crying out loud. They knew he was firing a gun and stayed there because it was supposed to be safe.

*** Granted - these are assumptions based in what has been reported so far. This could be totally wrong if this was an unscripted independent act.

[SW9racer 259]

So were they filming a scene where the camera and crew were downrange, which blanks should have been safe, or was he throwing one of his tantrums waving around the pistol and fired the banks at close range, which would be lethal ?

[High Exposure 4,791]

2 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

He is only a murderer if he intended to kill the victim.

Guilty of homicide, for sure. Not necessarily murder.

Consider if you shot and killed someone in self defense. You would have caused the death of that someone, but it would not have been murder.

There are other degrees of homicide between a justified killing and murder, too.

Manslaughter.

Homicide is a cause of death (as compared to natural causes, etc…) 

Manslaughter or murder are when it is caused by another.

Manslaughter is negligent, murder is purposeful. Both have degrees based on aggravating or mitigating factors.

1 hour ago, SW9racer said:

So were they filming a scene where the camera and crew were downrange, which blanks should have been safe, or was he throwing one of his tantrums waving around the pistol and fired the banks at close range, which could lethal ?

Who knows?
Tantrum - he bears full responsibility.
Doing his job - as directed - is a different story, IMO.

[Krdshrk 3,027]

You gotta wonder - would something like this have happened if say, Keanu Reeves was the actor...

[High Exposure 4,791]

If it is a freak accident, it can happen to anyone.

Better question:

If this happened to Keanu Reeves would we be so happy to celebrate this tragedy at his expense and so eager to see him headed to the gallows?

[raz-0 1,037]

1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

If it is a freak accident, it can happen to anyone.

Better question:

If this happened to Keanu Reeves would we be so happy to celebrate this tragedy at his expense and so eager to see him headed to the gallows?

It depends. If he were just the dumb actor, unqualified to be responsible for safety, then no, not really. If he were the producer and effectively responsible for not having a proper armorer on set and fostering a on atmosphere where corners are being cut? 

Quite possibly. Baldwin was the producer and the set had problems.  

 

[Displaced Texan 8,045]

I don’t think this incident will make AB any less of a douchebag when it comes to LEO shoots, or firearm owners. 
 

I think it will strengthen his push against both. 

[45Doll 3,572]

1 hour ago, Krdshrk said:

You gotta wonder - would something like this have happened if say, Keanu Reeves was the actor...

So the question would be does Keanu Reeves check the firearms (props or otherwise) he's handed before he 'shoots' them, or not?

Having seen him shoot on video I suspect he's well aware of gun safety protocols. And I'd be interested in knowing.

[Displaced Texan 8,045]

“Ryan, some  things don’t react well to bullets”…”

                                              Capt Marko Ramius

[gleninjersey 1,738]

2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

If it is a freak accident, it can happen to anyone.

Better question:

If this happened to Keanu Reeves would we be so happy to celebrate this tragedy at his expense and so eager to see him headed to the gallows?

I'm not celebrating.  I actually feel bad for him despite the disdain I have for most of his political stances.  He's still a human being who was directly involved in something horrific which lead to someone losing their life.  It has to be horrible gut wrenching experience.

It can still be a learning point.  The point being even if you are vehemently anti-gun, you should still take some responsibilty for knowing how to safely operate the tool you are being handed.  EVEN if you hate that tool.  It's ultimately your finger on the trigger.

As far as the race car analogy.  The driver isn't intentionally directing the race car at people.  They are out of harms way.  And I'm pretty sure prior to a race the driver looks the car over.  Checks the tires.  Makes sure the steering wheel feels right.  Checks for any obvious problems BEFORE they jump into the car and drive it.  I'm sure they are so not only for their own safety but also the other drivers safety, the pit crews safety, the fans safety, etc.  I highly doubt on race day that they simply show up, jump in the drivers seat and go. 

The difference between an actor like Alec Baldwin and Keanu Reeves is Keanu took the time to learn about firearms.  Could a similiar tragedy happen to someone like Keanu?  Possibly.  But at least he would have taken steps to try to mitigate that happening.  Let's hope he, and no other actors, never have to find out.  Maybe if more actors took a firearm safety course it would help reduce accidents like this?

 

[kc17 539]

If the allegations in this article are true, it further reduces the "accident" theory. Negligence all around. Some people were concerned enough over the lack of safety and proper equipment they walked away hours before. 

This article also has the most information I've seen so far, too much to copy & paste here. 

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

 

[1LtCAP 3,272]

i know i'm sounding stupid....but prop gun. should only fire blanks. makes sense. what kind of movies are gonna fire live rounds?

[Kevin125 4,573]

I’m thinking......he is as guilty as Derek Chauvin.

[Kevin125 4,573]

On 10/22/2021 at 9:48 PM, 1LtCAP said:

i know i'm sounding stupid....but prop gun. should only fire blanks. makes sense. what kind of movies are gonna fire live rounds?

Unless they manufacture “prop” guns with special chambers that can not fit a round with a bullet, I suspect they are capable of firing live rounds.  But if its possible to have metal fragments lodged in the barrel, someone needs to design new prop firearms. Or do really complex CGI.

[15636215 228]

16 hours ago, oldguysrule649 said:

Wow, lots of facts missing and many questions.  For starters, since when is a movie “prop” gun able to fire live rounds?  

I am retired from IATSE local 21 newark. worked 34 years. We used Real firearms on the shows that require firearms. Most were donated, Papermill theater before fire in 82 or so. Had colt pythons, 03a3s, some levers. Who knew who owned them. Used blanks, But REAL firearms. ATF only got involved with a license when there was explosives used. Pyros for concerts was NUTS!!!

[15636215 228]

7 hours ago, raz-0 said:

It depends. If he were just the dumb actor, unqualified to be responsible for safety, then no, not really. If he were the producer and effectively responsible for not having a proper armorer on set and fostering a on atmosphere where corners are being cut? 

Quite possibly. Baldwin was the producer and the set had problems.  

 

He was, and  the crew had walked. He is fucked!!

[1LtCAP 3,272]

now here's a 'nother question. if this were someone not famous.......you or me......would we still be walking free right now?

[oldguysrule649 332]

1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

now here's a 'nother question. if this were someone not famous.......you or me......would we still be walking free right now?

I seriously doubt it.  The NJ anti-2A judicial train would be accelerating down the tracks heading straight for me.

[45Doll 3,572]

No, let's not be kind to Alec - American Thinker

[kc17 539]

The argument against him being responsible I see the most is he followed protocols based on "how it's done on set". "It's always done that way, other people are responsible, the actor is not expected to be responsible or know the safety rules." Just because "that's how it's done" doesn't mean it's the right way or how it should be. La Costra Nostra has their own rules they've followed for decades, does that make what they do right? 

Another thing I find infuriating is how Hollywood perpetuates the poor handling of firearms. How often do you see an actor immediately put his/her finger on the trigger? I've recently started re-watching The Sopranos (could you tell with the LCN reference above); in one episode Tony removes a revolver from someone's jacket and immediately has his finger on the trigger waving it around. I think he even cocked the hammer. He had no intention of firing it. 

I have zero sympathy for Baldwin. I have some sympathy for the people he shot, even though they put themselves in harms way. I am most upset that anytime people do stupid things with guns, it's bad for responsible owners. 

[Shocker 108]

Idk if this source is any more trustworthy than any other but it says the assistant director who handed AB the gun actually called out “cold gun!” When it wasnt  

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59024820

 

…unless AB slipped him some cash to be the fall guy 

[kc17 539]

I've seen that in other sources as well. Doesn't change my opinion. One person pointed a gun at other people and pulled the trigger. I have not seen anything contradicting that.  

[Bomber 747]

4 hours ago, Shocker said:

Idk if this source is any more trustworthy than any other but it says the assistant director who handed AB the gun actually called out “cold gun!” When it wasnt  

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59024820

Predictably the media are covering for Baldwin.

They describe it as a shooting "involving" Alec Baldwin and are trying to blame an assistant director.

If this had "involved" a conservative republican actor they'd be calling for murder charges.

[124gr9mm 456]

3 hours ago, kc17 said:

Another thing I find infuriating is how Hollywood perpetuates the poor handling of firearms. How often do you see an actor immediately put his/her finger on the trigger? I've recently started re-watching The Sopranos (could you tell with the LCN reference above); in one episode Tony removes a revolver from someone's jacket and immediately has his finger on the trigger waving it around. I think he even cocked the hammer. He had no intention of firing it. 

Interesting.

Do you think there should be any guns used in movies?

John Wick

Saving Private Ryan

Kindergarten Cop

Lethal Weapon

Etc, etc, etc...

Just trying to understand where you're coming from.

If you're angry that guns were used in any of those movies I applaud you for your consistency.  In all of those movies guns were handled in a way where other actors and people on set were flagged, fingers were on triggers, etc...

[Underdog 1,546]

Any Anti-Gun Actors and support people with those views should NOT particpate in any movies that use firearms, even prop guns.  REAL firearms and ammunition should not be used, especially by spoiled, dumb-ass, liberal, hypocrital actors. 

Something about the Baldwin story just doesn't add up, however, a charge of wreckless manslaughter comes to mind.   Wasn't the first incidence and some say that the firearm belonged to Baldwin personally.  

[Underdog 1,546]

On 10/22/2021 at 6:00 PM, High Exposure said:

If it is a freak accident, it can happen to anyone.

Better question:

If this happened to Keanu Reeves would we be so happy to celebrate this tragedy at his expense and so eager to see him headed to the gallows?

Baldwin was ONE of the directors, and in charge of making the area safe by that virtue.  It was reported that this was NOT the first firearm incident on that set.  That would tend to lead to a negligent homicide.  The one that provided the "cleared" weapon to him should also be considered for this as well.  

And you are right, if it was Alec's brother, I would have felt bad for him.  Do you think Alec Baldwin would be calling for mercy if someone else had done it?  Imagine if the Trumpster accidentally pulled the trigger.  I bet he would have been fired.   

The story isn't complete.  We don't have all the facts, and the media by and large cannot be trusted to provide all of the facts OR even get to the bottom of all of this.  However, ONLY the jury that should be setup would be in a position to make that decision.  

 

This lesson that this does point out and reinforce is that one second of carelessness or complacence can be distastrous.  One person hurt, One Person dead, A son without a mother, a husband without a wife, and I presume parents without a child and siblings without a sister, etc.  And a man, no matter what a piece he is, no matter whether he is criminally or personally held responsibile, jail time or all of his wealth, etc. he will have to live with the fact that he has taken someone else's life.   Sadness as with any of these types of stories.   

Some might find Jon Schneider's commentary interesting.