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H2oVento

Time to move out of NJ... wish I could

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Guns are but one factor to leave NJ - sadly I was supposed to be typing this from West of the Ashley at this time this year, sadly that is not the case.

However, that has been a blessing for family reasons at this time - it is a matter of time, shooting for next fall.

Until then, keep shooting, keep buying guns, keep buying ammo - stick it up their arses - and snub your finger at them whenever you can.

They pass a law that the gun has to be locked up etc. - ok come enforce it - I will have an unlocked lockbox in my nightstrand and a loaded pistol under my pillow - as always.

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1 hour ago, Xtors said:

That was a great call... and nice dig! I hadn't heard that about Heller. That's good to know. I am also surprised none of action alerts I received on this didn't mention this unconstitutional angle.

Thanks.  Most shit “they” come up with will have holes poked it it.

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It is ironic and frustrating how people get significantly "criminalized" in this state when it comes to the second amendment, while marijuana has been significantly decriminalized.  I don't  have all the details at the moment, but my wife was at a meeting with law enforcement and a county prosecutor, where they were explaining how difficult it is now to charge someone with intent to sell, after they get their "warning" the first time they are caught.

It's time to leave.

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On 12/14/2021 at 9:41 AM, 45Doll said:

“We have among the lowest gun-crime realities of any American state. That’s what we’re committed to. We have no issue with law-abiding Second Amendment folks. That’s not our objective. And I think the packages we’ve already seen passed, as well as this prospective package, all continue to get at making our state responsibly, sensibly, and reasonably the strongest gun-safety state in America.” Phil Murphy

Yeah, rIght. Unless you're in one of the five outstanding counties. Then it's the wild west. And the report on this leaves out all the significant and ridiculous details.

N.J. lawmakers move to toughen state’s already strict gun laws - nj.com

And this one.

Eight new proposed gun laws endorsed by Assembly committees (nj1015.com)

I find it funny that Murphy referred to NJ as an American State. 

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Not sure what if anything we can do at this point aside from pack up and leave NJ. 

They're obviously not going to stop until there's a complete, defacto ban of the 2A in NJ. This is direct lash-back from the huge surge in gun ownership during 2020 and 2021. 

 

The NY pistol case may not save us either, either NJ will ignore it or it'll take another decade to play out in the courts IF it's favorable and applicable. Heller? Again, NJ will prosecute first and go from there. 

 

I think we'll start seeing these signs when entering NJ from PA at the rate we're going. :

 

you-are-leaving-the-american-sector-delphimages-photo-creations.jpg

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18 minutes ago, NotGeorgeSPatton said:

you-are-leaving-the-american-sector-delphimages-photo-creations.jpg

I will look for this as I cross the Delaware into America this afternoon!

Of course I'm keeping my PA gun club and any other firearm people I know in PA alert to what's going on here. Gun Control Fever is more contagious than Omicron!

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All kidding aside, I think NJ is trying to ignore this:

From heller:

In sum, we hold that the District’s ban on handgun possession in the home violates the Second Amendment , as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful firearm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate self-defense. Assuming that Heller is not disqualified from the exercise of Second Amendment rights, the District must permit him to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home.

 

Listened to Nappen's podcast, as usual he's right. 

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30 minutes ago, NotGeorgeSPatton said:

All kidding aside, I think NJ is trying to ignore this:

From heller:

In sum, we hold that the District’s ban on handgun possession in the home violates the Second Amendment , as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful firearm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate self-defense. Assuming that Heller is not disqualified from the exercise of Second Amendment rights, the District must permit him to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home.

 

Listened to Nappen's podcast, as usual he's right. 

That's exactly what I said on the radio yesterday.

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2 hours ago, 45Doll said:

I will look for this as I cross the Delaware into America this afternoon!

Of course I'm keeping my PA gun club and any other firearm people I know in PA alert to what's going on here. Gun Control Fever is more contagious than Omicron!

Not to mention, the PA advertising logo, "you've got a friend in Pennsylvania" certainly takes on new meaning for any NJ bill banning internet ammo sales. Having a trusted PA friend (or two!) is something any Joisey gun owner wants right about now. This is starting to feel a lot like prepping... you need a Plan A (plenty of ammo in storage), Plan B (reloading) , Plan C (a PA friend), Plan D (move the hell out even if it's at a $$ loss), etc., merely to get basic target-shooting supplies as a law-abiding person. (Meanwhile, criminals are set free within mere hours to prey on their next victim). Wow. Left is right, up is down, day is night... in this nuttiest of nutty states. :facepalm:

As for the safe storage bill, as others have stated, how would that even be implemented? Just playing this scenario out from an enforcement angle... I suppose it would some kind of add-on charge?... If, god forbid, someone broke into a person's house and the owner was forced to shoot the intruder, I suppose the police could ask: where's the gun safe? AND, where's the ammo safe? And if you couldn't prove you had both, there could be charges? Is that the only possible scenario at play for enforcing this crazy bill? 

Hypothetically, (not that I'm recommending this, mind you!...but just trying to noodle this situation through so we all understand it fully...), let's suppose this hypothetical homeowner has a safe (always a good idea IMO). But, he/she also thinks it's decidedly UNSAFE to place too many hurdles in front of them getting the firearm into an operable state under exigent circumstances, soooo... hmmm... the owner also kept a small el cheapo metal box (let's call it an "ammo lockbox") somewhere near the gun safe, but unlocked, flipped open, and with a cheap open padlock casually flung next to it... how the hell would the investigators know any better if: a) the ammo lockbox was always in that state (open/empty, 24x7) and the owner actually pulled a fully-loaded gun out of the gun safe... or... b) the owner had opened the ammo lockbox only minutes before (during the break-in)? This would be unprovable one way or the other unless the cops were actually in the house when the break-in actually happened.  Am I understanding this correctly? It's not only unconstitutional, but it's also dangerous to victims, AND with the smallest steps, the law could never be proven/enforced? :unsure: 

Bravo, NJ!!!

 

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16 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

As for the safe storage bill, as others have stated, how would that even be implemented?

Police: What happened?

Homeowner: The deceased broke into my house, threatened me with his gun, and I shot him.

Police: I see the opened storage boxes next to your bed and the keys on the floor. What happened?

Homeowner: I want a lawyer.

The first time the homeowner's account is heard, if it is heard, will be the homeowner in court. And no one will be positioned to dispute it.

 

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9 minutes ago, Lawnmower2021 said:

Yes in the worst it is a perverse way to punish people for defending themselves.
The DA will go "Oh, you had all the time in the world to unlock the maze to your weapon... so your life was not in danger"

The prosecutor can't bring the defendant to the stand. Testifying is up to the defendant and his lawyers.

"You are free to speculate. I couldn't possibly comment."

Ian Richardson, House of Cards

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3 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

the owner also kept a small el cheapo metal box (let's call it an "ammo lockbox") somewhere near the gun safe, but unlocked, flipped open, and with a cheap open padlock casually flung next to it... how the hell would the investigators know any better

Yep, there will be plenty of time, AFTER you shoot the perp, to go unlock your safe and unlock your ammo, BEFORE the LEOs arrive.

In reality, how many people actually keep their home defense "equipment" readily available, versus just keeping them all locked up in the big safe in their closet?

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15 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Yep, there will be plenty of time, AFTER you shoot the perp, to go unlock your safe and unlock your ammo, BEFORE the LEOs arrive.

In reality, how many people actually keep their home defense "equipment" readily available, versus just keeping them all locked up in the big safe in their closet?

I actually believe many people keep their guns locked up and feel completely safe!  What they are not taking into consideration is that getting to and opening that safe may take them 15 seconds under normal circumstances but suddenly being woken up in a state of fear and extreme stress, they will NOT react nearly as fast as they could normally.

When I sleep, my weapon is always 2 feet from me, loaded and ready to go and so it will remain, regardless of the wishes of a stupid gopher!

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3 hours ago, 45Doll said:

Police: What happened?

Homeowner: I want a lawyer.

Police: I see the opened storage boxes next to your bed and the keys on the floor. What happened?

Homeowner: I want a lawyer.

The first time the homeowner's account is heard, if it is heard, will be the homeowner in court. And no one will be positioned to dispute it.

 

FIFY

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11 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Not to mention, the PA advertising logo, "you've got a friend in Pennsylvania" certainly takes on new meaning for any NJ bill banning internet ammo sales. Having a trusted PA friend (or two!) is something any Joisey gun owner wants right about now. This is starting to feel a lot like prepping... you need a Plan A (plenty of ammo in storage), Plan B (reloading) , Plan C (a PA friend), Plan D (move the hell out even if it's at a $$ loss), etc., merely to get basic target-shooting supplies as a law-abiding person. (Meanwhile, criminals are set free within mere hours to prey on their next victim). Wow. Left is right, up is down, day is night... in this nuttiest of nutty states. :facepalm:

As for the safe storage bill, as others have stated, how would that even be implemented? Just playing this scenario out from an enforcement angle... I suppose it would some kind of add-on charge?... If, god forbid, someone broke into a person's house and the owner was forced to shoot the intruder, I suppose the police could ask: where's the gun safe? AND, where's the ammo safe? And if you couldn't prove you had both, there could be charges? Is that the only possible scenario at play for enforcing this crazy bill? 

Hypothetically, (not that I'm recommending this, mind you!...but just trying to noodle this situation through so we all understand it fully...), let's suppose this hypothetical homeowner has a safe (always a good idea IMO). But, he/she also thinks it's decidedly UNSAFE to place too many hurdles in front of them getting the firearm into an operable state under exigent circumstances, soooo... hmmm... the owner also kept a small el cheapo metal box (let's call it an "ammo lockbox") somewhere near the gun safe, but unlocked, flipped open, and with a cheap open padlock casually flung next to it... how the hell would the investigators know any better if: a) the ammo lockbox was always in that state (open/empty, 24x7) and the owner actually pulled a fully-loaded gun out of the gun safe... or... b) the owner had opened the ammo lockbox only minutes before (during the break-in)? This would be unprovable one way or the other unless the cops were actually in the house when the break-in actually happened.  Am I understanding this correctly? It's not only unconstitutional, but it's also dangerous to victims, AND with the smallest steps, the law could never be proven/enforced? :unsure: 

Bravo, NJ!!!

 

It's literally unenforceable -

 

11 hours ago, 45Doll said:

Police: What happened?

Homeowner: The deceased broke into my house, threatened me with his gun, and I shot him.

Police: I see the opened storage boxes next to your bed and the keys on the floor. What happened?

Homeowner: I want a lawyer.

The first time the homeowner's account is heard, if it is heard, will be the homeowner in court. And no one will be positioned to dispute it.

 

^^^^^  this.  Sadly, don't talk to the cops.

8 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

I actually believe many people keep their guns locked up and feel completely safe!  What they are not taking into consideration is that getting to and opening that safe may take them 15 seconds under normal circumstances but suddenly being woken up in a state of fear and extreme stress, they will NOT react nearly as fast as they could normally.

When I sleep, my weapon is always 2 feet from me, loaded and ready to go and so it will remain, regardless of the wishes of a stupid gopher!

12g next to the bed, right now 9mm under the pillow spare mags light and headphones nightstand.

Chair by the woodstove, 45acp with mag tucked in the remote holder.  Table in front of couch that has flip up top storage hi power and mag.

Home office desktop, 357 586.

And or what's carried on me when home, doing yard work,, hanging out etc.

I'll store my.guns how I want, thank you very much...now piss off.  

 

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I think a lot of people, gun owners included, neglect how much cognitive effort it takes to actually reach the gun in an emergency.

~10-15 years ago I thought it was a bit overboard to have the gun on/near you at all times at home. But... I mean, it's like a fire extinguisher. If you can't get it when you need it, it's just a range toy or conversation piece.

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1 hour ago, Lawnmower2021 said:

~10-15 years ago I thought it was a bit overboard to have the gun on/near you at all times at home. But... I mean, it's like a fire extinguisher. If you can't get it when you need it, it's just a range toy or conversation piece.

Exactly!!

Which is why I also have fire extinguishers strategically placed all around my house.

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12 hours ago, brucin said:

FIFY

I take your point, and I agree; less is better.

However, most strategies recommended by firearm legal experts advise conveying relevant facts (not actions, thoughts, motives, reasons etc.) pertinent to the scenario. I realize my scenario may have done just that. My point was that after stating the obvious, shut your mouth. Obviously, every scenario is different. I think the main point is self-restraint and not nervously breaking into a blab fest. The jury should hear one and only one version of what happened: yours.

And by the way, don't plead the 5th. it's "I want an attorney."

"Everything you say can be used against you in court."

The corollary you never hear: "Nothing you say in your favor will be used in court, because it's up to the prosecutor to introduce it."

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