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14 minutes ago, siderman said:

Forum probly got too off topic. Let's be honest, it's heavy on politics,  culture wars,  pandemic,  pepper stuff.....some folk may not want to see all that on their gun forum.

I'm as guilty as anyone. But on the subject of gun control, as I state in my periodic gun club update, 'gun control does not occur in a vacuum'. So, the entire political climate must be monitored and discussed, because the issue of gun control will be determined in that climate. All the techniques surrounding the handling of COVID-19 will be used to suppress our 2A rights.

I can hardly wait to hear what the 'wise Latina' will come up with deciding gun control cases brought to the court.

'100,000 children were killed by gun violence last year!"

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47 minutes ago, siderman said:

Forum probly got too off topic. Let's be honest, it's heavy on politics,  culture wars,  pandemic,  pepper stuff.....some folk may not want to see all that on their gun forum.

No, with all due respect... I don't think it's the mix of topics! It's largely because there's too much vitriol and just plain silliness even on the threads about serious gun topics, and I know this for a fact, because I see the complaints that roll into my mailbox - and that's a common theme. And though I can't speak to Bob's situation directly, I've personally questioned a handful of members who once actively participated and no longer do so, so I think I have a sense for what generates drop-offs.

So, the next time that you see a moderator admonish someone on a thread to "stop with the personal attacks" - or - if you suspect/know we put someone in a time-out (because they refused to meet those requests to lay off the attacks), please understand, THAT'S why we do those things! For the most part, people want their time on here to be enjoyable. And for most personality types, "enjoyable" means sharing information about their past-time, using that info to help people new to the shooting sports, learning a new thing or two themselves, arranging the occasional get-together, enjoying a sense of community, etc. If they don't like politics, they can avoid the 1A Lounge, but they should still be able to enjoy ALL of the other forums!!! What they don't want is to be chided, needled, or attacked. And if they post a thread about a serious topic, they also don't want it hijacked with a bunch of dumb, off-topic responses rolling in. I have heard this repeatedly over the years. And not from "snowflakes" either!... from normal, rational adults. There's a lesson in there for all of us... if we're mature enough to accept it. 

Again, I'm in no position to speak for him directly... but I will say that someone like Pizza Bob is a wealth of information, and a great guy in terms of reaching out to new gun owners. It irks me to no end when posters like him drift away. 

New Year's Resolution - let's all do better! :)

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16 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

So, the next time that you see a moderator admonish someone on a thread to "stop with the personal attacks" - or - if you suspect/know we put someone in a time-out (because they refused to meet those requests to lay off the attacks), please understand, THAT'S why we do those things!

Honest question, how many members have been chased away because of said admonishment or lecturing, when middle age men get chastised or lectured for having everyday, "normal" guy banter?

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3 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Honest question, how many members have been chased away because of said admonishment or lecturing, when middle age men get chastised or lectured for having everyday, "normal" guy banter?

I personally know of at least a dozen former posters who admitted they simply got turned off by the tone and thus stopped participating here for the reasons I stated. They were very knowledgeable, too - they really brought something to the table!  That's a loss!

I've also had a few members - brand-new gun owners - who left for similar reasons. That's a loss, also. 

How do I know this for a fact? Because I see the complaints that come in, and because on occasion, I randomly follow-up and ask. For context, as a former recruiter, I use to think that "exit interviews" were heavily under-utilized. I knew that if companies spent more time keeping their current employees engaged and satisfied, they'd have less expense recruiting replacements when they walked out the door. Same principle applies here. 

More to the point, the 2A community is quite literally locked into a battle for its survival! We can't afford to drive ANYONE away. We should be pulling them into the fold. You even have "looky-loos" who read through these forums before they buy a gun (I know, because I was one of them). We don't want to turn people off. It's a strategic error.

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29 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I've also had a few members - brand-new gun owners - who left for similar reasons. That's a loss, also. 

It's their loss. New members get treated very well here compared to the pummeling I've seen other sites.

Questions are answered quickly by knowledgeable people.

I wish a site like this existed when I first applied for my FID.

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3 hours ago, Bomber said:

It's their loss. I maintain that it's our loss. I feel strongly about that. Anyone turned off... anyone left with a bad taste in their mouth... is bad for the 2A at-large. New members get treated very well here compared to the pummeling I've seen other sites. Well, my tolerance is low for personal attacks... and it approaches "zero" for attacks on new members for the reasons I already cited. So, I must say, that statement doesn't make me feel any better... that we're not as horrible as other places is not a ringing endorsement, lol. In fact, I'm sorry to hear that new members are being "pummeled" on any sites (most particularly if those are gun sites you're referring to? ... again, for the reasons I mentioned). There are a lot of new gun owners right now, with others perhaps in the "thinking about it" stage. We should all we can to make people feel welcome - both new folks and experienced. This is the time for this community to pull together. 

Questions are answered quickly by knowledgeable people.  

I wish a site like this existed when I first applied for my FID.

Totally agree with the statements above!! This is very knowledgeable community that chimes in quickly with helpful information. I'm always impressed by that! I think it's generally a great resource... :) but one that on occasion goes awry. :( And that's when moderators step in... and some of you get very angry at us! C'est la vie. ;)

 

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4 hours ago, siderman said:

Forum probly got too off topic. Let's be honest, it's heavy on politics,  culture wars,  pandemic,  pepper stuff.....some folk may not want to see all that on their gun forum.

Yeah, but most of that is contained in the 1A Lounge, which comes with a disclaimer, and requires a SECOND login to access. Nobody is forced to go there, and lurkers can't access it or even see it.

So, if a reader takes the time to get in the 1A Lounge, after seeing all the disclaimers, they really don't have a leg to stand on and reason to complain.... They were warned..... 

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Since we've veered off topic a bit, I admit I have expressed dissatisfaction with unethical behavior towards the 2A. If it seems to have a political bent it's because our politicians seem to be responsible for most of that behavior. I also lurked as a guest for awhile, and found out early on that I would need a thick skin in dealing with this 'eclectic' group, what other site has a gazillion threads of porkoll vs. ham posts eventhough anyone with one iota of intelligence knows it's porkroll. And now Siderman goes and throws 'pepper stuff' into the mix, it's long hots for the win by the way. I agree that we should be gentle with newbies, except for the smug, arrogant ones, and personal attacks should never be tolerated. However, like much in life, I try to separate the wheat from the chaff and see this site for the wealth of information and support I have received over the years. But I still miss guys like Bob (and the photos of his gorgeous weekly acquisitions).

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On 1/10/2022 at 3:48 PM, Sniper said:

Yeah, but most of that is contained in the 1A Lounge, which comes with a disclaimer, and requires a SECOND login to access. Nobody is forced to go there, and lurkers can't access it or even see it.

So, if a reader takes the time to get in the 1A Lounge, after seeing all the disclaimers, they really don't have a leg to stand on and reason to complain.... They were warned..... 

And, because of the politiicized world we live in, firearms and politics are irrevocably linked and 2nd Amendment supporters are never left alone.  There is a general comraderie with a persecuted group that can also see sometimes more clearly  the tyranny surfacing in other (all) areas such as the questionable vaccine/bioweapons or perhaps censorship, etc.   Still, there is plenty for everyone on here that is strictly firearms related.   It is refreshing that the dialogue isn't completely controlled here.  I give kudos to Maks and his staff.   Not to step on Krdshks toes, but Mrs. P, you are the best mod ever!

Hope Pizza Bob is OK.  

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