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If Braces are Banned

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Everyone is getting wrapped around the axle on this unnecessarily.

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Along with the overall length and VFG requirements, to be classified as an other firearm it simply can’t have a stock. Nowhere does it say that it has to have a brace.

@PK90, @Krdshrk, @Mr.Stu, @JackDaWackare right and giving good advice. Don’t be ruled by fear. If the time comes, make your decisions based on knowledge.

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8 minutes ago, ESB said:

It looks like the SB MIni Hex is still a brace and would probably suffer the same fate as the SB3.  Basically looking for non-brace attachments for the end of the buffer tube.  

What is it that you want this device to do?

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23 hours ago, ESB said:
 

Exactly.  If it becomes an issue, I plan on keeping the Other and removing the brace.  I'd like to know what options there are to replace the stock in that event.  That was the whole point of this thread.  

The only item posted was this:

https://blackcollararms.com/product/aps/

 

Any other items?  

https://gearheadworks.com/tailhook/

ATF approved. Brace swings open to brace the firearm against your arm. 

gun1.jpg

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10 hours ago, Porthole said:

It is a brace, but does not have 'features' of a rifle brace and it is non adjustable

Did you read the links and follow the ATF's examples using the 4999 form?

It's all about the points.

An other is over 26" 

POINTS DO NOT APPLY. 

An other is NOT a PISTOL. It's NOT designed to be fired ONE HANDED. 

That just about makes everything the ATF has published as proposed rules changes completely moot to OTHERS. 

If that's not enough to convince you, nothing will. 

Most stabilizing braces are not specifically designed to make only pistols easier to fire, and thus are not designed specifically for one handed operation. The SBA3 for example was designed for ANY weapon with an milspec tube, where the individual doesn't want a stock, and wants an accessory that can offer stability. 

So the rules mention that over 26" with a brace is a no go for one handed operation... that leaves Others pretty much excluded from any rule changes. 

How often do you shoot a pistol one handed anyway? 

The ATF's entire proposed rule is an extremely weak one when considering statutory language with respect to others and pistols, as they argue when a brace can be beneficial or not has absolutely nothing to do with one handed operation of a weapon just because it's designed to be fired with one hand. They also are attempting to lump every brace created with this reasoning of one handed operation. It also applies a check box process of intent, when every lawyer on earth knows proving intent is difficult and creating a made up form is not proof of anything. 

Example:

1) adding a vfg is pretty obvious you intended to use it as a secondary grip location. 

2) Adding a brace to literally anything only shows intent to increase the firearms stablity. 

If the atf wants to pen a letter making others with braces NFA regulated, I plan on replacing the A5 extension with a carbine and filing for an AOW.

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On 2/27/2022 at 3:44 PM, Porthole said:

Maybe the thread title and subject should have been more to the point, 'the ATF's NPR regarding pistols that meet certain requirements and are equipped with a stabilizing brace'.

I moved out of Jersey 2 years ago, and even though just a short move to the next state down, there is a world of difference.

Perfectly legal here to have an AR platform in various calibers with 30 round (or larger) magazines filled with hollow points with a stabilizing brace, folding or non folding and to purchase as many as I want in a single day with nothing more than a drivers license and of course the background check. I can carry it in my car on the seat or dash with no CC, can even open carry if desired. And a CCDW only took about 4 weeks.

Come August 2022 if everything becomes final, the SBA3 brace on a for example, an AR9 pistol, the SBA3 will need to be removed or reclassify the pistol. As mentioned above the SB mini brace will keep the pistol a pistol and not a SBR since it is not adjustable..

I thought the OP was direct in their question, and have framed my responses as such. 

 

I see no reason for the OP to even ask about Pistols, they're illegal in NJ prior to the ATFs proposed rule change 

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3 hours ago, Porthole said:

 

I thought the OP's post was not direct with the way he phrased his question.

The ATF is not proposing a ban.

The proposal stems from the use of certain forms of stabilizing braces on firearms intended to be fired with one hand, such as AR type/style pistols.

OP was asking how Others would be affected regarding the ban of braces(on certain weapons)

Yea sure it could have been worded better but the information he was looking for was easy enough to answer. Except.... you started your opinions in this thread with applying the point system to an other regarding the VFG. 

 

AND the new rules mention two handed smooth bore weapons over 26"... such as the tac14 and shockwave, any brace would be a no go. 

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13 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

stupid question? does this mean only the troy others are ok, or are other others ok too based on this?

Waiting to see what their breakdown is but I believe it will cover all others... I may be optimistic

3 hours ago, Xtors said:

Perhaps a dumb question but what would happen if an A4 is brought out of state?

Nothing...

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13 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

stupid question? does this mean only the troy others are ok, or are other others ok too based on this?

I would assume this would apply to all manufactured Others not just the A4.  In the NJSP letter stating the A4 is legal, it also mentions some other "Others."  I would assume those would also be legal, since they are very similar.  I would also hope that properly built home built Others would also be legal.  

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

stupid question? does this mean only the troy others are ok, or are other others ok too based on this?

13 hours ago, Xtors said:

Perhaps a dumb question but what would happen if an A4 is brought out of state?

An “Other Firearm” is based on a Federal definition describing a configuration of certain parts that meet a very specific set of criteria - for a “Short Barrel Firearm/SBF”  - most notably, and as covered above ad nauseam:
• A receiver that was never transferred as an “other” and not a rifle, pistol, machine gun, AOW, or SBR, and has never had a stock installed - Note: you can not convert an existing rifle to an SBF and the requirement is to not have a stock, NOT to install a brace.
• A minimum length of 26” at its shortest possible length - that means bare receiver extension with brace removed, and, if so equipped, with any folding mechanism folded. 
• The presence of a forward vertical grip indicating the firearm was designed to be fired using two hands.

Manufacturer/Brand does not matter as long as the firearm conforms to the above.

An “Other Firearm” or “SBF” is NOT an SBR or AOW and does not require:
• Federal registration and approval
• Engraving of the lower
• Permission to bring to another state
• Tax Stamps, fees, or other paperwork

Edited by High Exposure
Cleaned up some language for clarity
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FWIW I reached out to the manufacturer of my other (ACI) who echoes the sentiment that worst case, in the unlikely event this ever comes to light, you can just replace the brace with something compliant.

So, yeah. The risk category here for others is mildly inconvenient.

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