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45Doll

The Ghost Gun Thread

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I definitely noticed "ghost gun" become the latest buzz word for at least the last year (like "high powered assault rifle" was around the AWB expiration). Pretty much every article on random gun-related crimes squeezes in "ghost gun" somewhere; they really mean "illegally acquired gun that cannot be traced back to the perpetrator."

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Their favorite is to define ghost gun as any firearm without a serial number.  But they won’t tell anyone that’s the definition they use.  Instead they let everyone assume it’s “homemade” firearms even tough their number includes stolen firearms with defaced serial numbers. 

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Here is a big example of "ghost gun" needlessly being highlighted. There was a shooting in the Bronx amongst teenagers, with two wounded and one girl killed.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/person-of-interest-questioned-in-deadly-shooting-of-bronx-honor-student/3638497/

An entire paragraph is spent on:

Quote

Police patrolling outside the apartment of the person of interest witnessed a black bag thrown out of his window. The two senior officials said officers searched the bag and found an unloaded black ghost gun.

Police were investigating whether the shooting suspect, who had no criminal record, was using a so-called “ghost gun” — homemade firearms that can be built with parts bought online and lack serial numbers normally used to trace them.

This reminds me of when regular people would actually repeat "high powered assault rifle" in normal conversation. So yes, the public is actively being trained to fear "ghost guns" just like they were for the AWB. It's honestly one of the scariest concepts in modern society.

Most articles mention "ghost guns", though NBC goes as far to make you hate law-abiding citizens. The person charged for this murder is a 17-year old boy who definitely cannot legally own a gun in NYC: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10702675/NYC-girl-16-killed-crossfire-near-Bronx-high-school-Friday-beautiful-soul.html

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15 hours ago, 1LtCAP said:

didn't civilian firearms only start being serialized in the mid/late 60's? i thought till that point only military stuff was serialized?

I know "someone" who has a few firearms from the 1950s and there are no serial numbers on them.

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3 hours ago, CMJeepster said:

I know "someone" who has a few firearms from the 1950s and there are no serial numbers on them.

U.S. military firearms began to serialize in the late 1800's. Quality firearms in America and Europe that were hand assembled one-at-a-time had serial numbers, dating back to the late 1800's or possibly earlier. Cheap .22's, parlor guns, "hardware-store" guns may not have had S/N's until 1968's GCA. Sometime in the late 1970's is when they began stamping those ugly warning labels on some U.S. guns. 

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Want to explain it in terms that liberal may understand?  Ask they if the federal governement should outlaw or strictly regulated:

Grow lights
Plant fertilizer
Pots for growing plants
Seed Starter Trays
Gardening tools 

All of the above ARE used in illegally growing marijuana.  Should everything and anything that could possible be used to grow and harvest marijuana be illegal?  You can change the assosicated supporting paraphernalia to any drug or activity that liberals enjoy.  It's all just as absurd.
 

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So, here goes: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/04/11/fact-sheet-the-biden-administration-cracks-down-on-ghost-guns-ensures-that-atf-has-the-leadership-it-needs-to-enforce-our-gun-laws/

A couple years ago, I didn't even know "ghost guns" existed yet apparently they're one of the biggest problems in this country. According to this, anything without a serial number must have one prior to sale.

Quote

Today, the President and Deputy Attorney General will also announce that the U.S. Department of Justice has issued a final rule to rein in the proliferation of “ghost guns” – unserialized, privately-made firearms that law enforcement are increasingly recovering at crime scenes in cities across the country. Last year alone, there were approximately 20,000 suspected ghost guns reported to ATF as having been recovered by law enforcement in criminal investigations – a ten-fold increase from 2016.[1]

...

This final rule bans the business of manufacturing the most accessible ghost guns, such as unserialized “buy build shoot” kits that individuals can buy online or at a store without a background check and can readily assemble into a working firearm in as little as 30 minutes with equipment they have at home.

It's funny that the citation link is broken. This page is a whole ton of BS, but even if you don't care about "ghost guns", pay mind to this:

Quote

Second, the final rule requires federally licensed firearms dealers to retain key records until they shut down their business or licensed activity. At that time, these dealers must transfer the records to ATF, just as they are currently required to do at the end of licensed activity. Previously, these dealers were permitted to destroy most records after 20 years...

I would like to see the actual text of the rule rather than press releases or news articles.

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Gun-banners hate ghost guns as they effectively negate most gun control schemes.

This will bubble up to SCOTUS fairly shortly - The right to keep and bear arms doesn't have a clause that they must be from "approved" manufacturers, and there's a long history and precedent of homemade firearms in the U.S. .

Computer controlled manufacturing is just going to get more precise, cheaper, smaller and faster as time goes on.  Pretty soon they'll be reduced to attempting to regulate raw materials and electricity; or maybe, at that point, they'll finally realize the real problem is the people pulling the triggers, not the source of their weapons.

1 hour ago, Lawnmower2021 said:

I would like to see the actual text of the rule rather than press releases or news articles

Here you go - it's not the "official" version yet as it's not yet published in the federal register:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/rulemaking/final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-frame-or-receiver-and-identification/download

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There may be just too many gun owners spread across the political spectrum for gun control to gain approval.

WH Gun Control Push Will Backfire on Democrats in Midterms (townhall.com)

And by the way, note that AG Garland claimed (elsewhere the day of Biden's announcement) there were 'tens of thousands' of ghost gun crimes they had to investigate.

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https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/ghost-gun-bust-reveals-arsenal-at-nyc-apartment-prosecutors/3658618/

Quote

An "arsenal" of ghost guns was discovered at the home of a Brooklyn man, accused of buying gun parts worth thousands and constructing the untraceable firearms.

The article suggests he had 80% lower kits shipped to him, but AFAIK that's not possible/legal in NY. I'm guessing whatever he did broke the law.

Quote

In addition to the 13 completed firearms, officials found rifle and pistol magazines, casings, bullet primers and gunpower "to build ammunition and various tools commonly used to build firearms."

Somehow I don't imagine most criminals using handloads. Sounds like a curious person more than a violent criminal, but the law's the law.

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On 4/15/2022 at 10:36 AM, 45Doll said:

There may be just too many gun owners spread across the political spectrum for gun control to gain approval.

WH Gun Control Push Will Backfire on Democrats in Midterms (townhall.com)

And by the way, note that AG Garland claimed (elsewhere the day of Biden's announcement) there were 'tens of thousands' of ghost gun crimes they had to investigate.

what they'll do is to say that the majority of americans want it. then they'll do what they want.

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"New “Ghost Run” regulations set to take effect today could help close a half-century-old loophole that made guns developed using 3D printers or assembled with homemade parts essentially invisible to law enforcement"

I didn't know that 3D printers have been around for 50 years

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13 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

From the link:

"Prior to this week’s update, realtors were relying on language written in 1968 and 1971 to determine what defined firearms."

:scratchhead:

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