Cheflife15 455 Posted May 6, 2022 I'm debating between a few difference rifles. My main priority is reliability. It'll be mostly for plinking but If zombies take over the world I'm sure I'll use it. I doubt I'll ever shoot beyond 100 yards. Looking for something in 5.56 Also what do I gain when I get to the 1500 range? M and p sport 2 Ruger ar 556 Iwi zion Any other suggestions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Peel 7,157 Posted May 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Cheflife15 said: It'll be mostly for plinking [...] I doubt I'll ever shoot beyond 100 yards. Just curious... any reason you're jumping right over .22lr? Barring a zombie invasion, it seems to fit your needs, no? The ammo would be a huge cost savings, and the money you save as you're plinking away could be put towards your next gun. (Because, as I'm sure you know, there's always a next gun). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted May 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said: Just curious... any reason you're jumping right over .22lr? Barring a zombie invasion, it seems to fit your needs, no? The ammo would be a huge cost savings, and the money you save as you're plinking away could be put towards your next gun. (Because, as I'm sure you know, there's always a next gun). Truthfully I don't find .22 enjoyable. I feel like the recoil and bang of larger calibers is more my style. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted May 7, 2022 Don't forget Dark Storm Industries https://www.dark-storm.com/dsi/ds-15/ds-15-moe-rifles/dark-storm-ds-15-moe-post-ban-5.56-rifle-black/ Stag Arms Sig M400 Wyndham Weaponry Rock River Arms Black Rain Ordinance Fission Diamondback DB15 Springfield SAINT Adam Arms Bushmaster XM15 DMPS LCAR A3 Even Del Ton or ATI... 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tony357 386 Posted May 7, 2022 Ruger® PC Carbine™ Autoloading Rifle Model 19122 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted May 7, 2022 2 hours ago, tony357 said: Ruger® PC Carbine™ Autoloading Rifle Model 19122 I have a few pccs but I updated the post to specifically look for something in 5.56. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,661 Posted May 7, 2022 What’s your definition of “reliable”? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon K 32 Posted May 7, 2022 OK, I'll bite. If your looking for a rifle to plink and to save your butt when you need too, then drop the $1000 max, although there are some options, and most of those are 7.62x39 piston guns, aka. AK47. Let's say you went plinking with your direct impingement AR based rifle and didn't get to clean it and the zombies come, yea it might still work for a while, but its going to gum up and start failing. Now change that to a piston driven AR15, like a SIG, it will work all day everyday, even if you haven't cleaned it for 10,000 rounds, dropped it in mud, water, sand, dirt, you name it. That's what you get when you up your price target... So either get a AK47 to stay inexpensive, or get a real AR15, not that thing that was made in the 60's.... Just my opinion. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted May 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Jon K said: get a AK47 to stay inexpensive When the price of actual AKs is higher than ARs now though... Unless you're getting a PSA AK, AK prices have skyrocketed - decent ones are over $1k now. Even the ZPAP M70's up around the $1k mark now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon K 32 Posted May 7, 2022 I'm not saying that they haven't been hit by the Biden economy, but Shooters has at least half a dozen different manufacturers less than the $1000 price point. Now they certainly aren't as good as my arsensal SAM7R, but we aren't talking about $2000+ AK's. Although i have some fine direct impingement AR15's, Stags mostly, I still wouldn't grab one if my life were dependent on it, over even a cheap AK47. Don't want to turn this into a AR versus AK chat, but the AK simply is a better weapon compared to a direct impingement AR. Add to that that the ammo is superior to a 5.56 Nato and there really isn't anything to discuss. At least below 150 yards. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted May 7, 2022 44 minutes ago, Jon K said: Don't want to turn this into a AR versus AK chat, but the AK simply is a better weapon compared to a direct impingement AR that's exactly what you're doing here. OP asked for something in 5.56 (and yes you could get AK's in 5.56) and gave examples of DI ARs. Your opinion on DI ARs is completely unfounded and unnecessary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon K 32 Posted May 7, 2022 Oh well, I knew you would get personal, thus why i hate to even give opinions. DI stinks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bomber 1,091 Posted May 7, 2022 19 hours ago, Cheflife15 said: I'm debating between a few difference rifles. My main priority is reliability. Any other suggestions. Colt 6920 M4 Carbine, can't get much more reliable than that. Steve at Monmouth Arms is an NJGF vendor and has one in stock: https://monmoutharms.com/product/colt-m4-carbine-cr6920/ No need to spend more, put the money towards ammo. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted May 7, 2022 23 hours ago, Cheflife15 said: Also what do I gain when I get to the 1500 range? https://www.primaryweapons.com/mk116-pro-rifle $1350 for a piston AR rifle. That's where my money would go. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted May 7, 2022 8 hours ago, High Exposure said: What’s your definition of “reliable”? I have cz pistols that have had zero malfunctions with thousands of rounds of different ammo run through them. I also had a hi point carbine which couldn't cycle a full a magazine without jamming. I'm looking for something like the cz. Can run lots if different brands of ammo and cycles properly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted May 7, 2022 These are supposedly the best. Bravo Company (BCM) Colt Daniel Defense (DD) Larue Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT) LWRC Noveske Yankee Hill Machine These are supposedly pretty darned good too. Anderson Aero Precision FNH Palmetto State Armory (PSA) Rainier Arms Ruger Sig Sauer Smith & Wesson Spike’s Don't overthink this decision. ARs are generally a very reliable platform. Put your money in a good barrel, upper receiver and trigger. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,731 Posted May 8, 2022 Piston ARs are a good idea, if you shoot full auto AND suppressed. You don’t do either in NJ. And you sure as hell don’t do them at the same time. DI is the way to go. My preferred flavor is Colt, but yours may differ. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted May 8, 2022 I think the colt looks awesome. But it seems the reviews the new one is getting are mixed. 22 minutes ago, Displaced Texan said: Piston ARs are a good idea, if you shoot full auto AND suppressed. You don’t do either in NJ. And you sure as hell don’t do them at the same time. DI is the way to go. My preferred flavor is Colt, but yours may differ. Can you tell me what Di stands for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,731 Posted May 8, 2022 DI= direct impingement. Normal gas system on AR rifles. The Colt 6920 is an excellent choice. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,661 Posted May 8, 2022 Arms Unlimited has genuine Colt 6920 uppers (complete with the BCG, CH, and BUIS) for $600. (You will need to shave the bayo lug down and swap the flash hider for something NJ legal) https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-AR15-16-inch-Upper-Receiver-Assembly-p/le6920ck.htm Another ~$100 for a lower, $60 for a quality LPK and $50-$80 for a quality receiver extension and Magpul Fixed Carbine stock. You can shave the lug yourself with a dremel, a cold blue pen, and some high temp black BBQ paint, but will likely have to have someone pin the new brake for you. Do all that and you are good to go for under $1k with a rifle that will serve you a very very long time. IMO, it’s a way better option than a complete carbine from any of the makers you or @Krdshrk listed, and is really about as good as it gets for a budget AR. if you want to buy a complet rifle,@Scorpio64’s list was right on - my only edit would be: • Add Modern Materiel (local NJ base AR manufacturer) • Bump FNH up to the higher level since they got the TDP from Colt • Drop Noveske - they are a boutique/niche company lately that is way overpriced and whose quality has dropped since their founder was killed in an MVA Any of those rifle manufacturers are good to go - but they will be more than $1k. Some After that it is: • mags • sling • vis light • optic In that order. Oh, yeah…. Piston ARs are dumb. AKs are fun and reliable, but are stupid expensive lately. There is no “standard” making parts and repair difficult unless you are an AK savant. I have the same Bulgarian Arsenal AK that @Jon has, and it runs great, but there is an AR in my “Break seal for EOTWAWKI” box. If I could have only 1 long gun for defense, plinking, hunting, zombies, it would be an AR. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,661 Posted May 8, 2022 11 hours ago, Jon K said: OK, I'll bite. If your looking for a rifle to plink and to save your butt when you need too, then drop the $1000 max, although there are some options, and most of those are 7.62x39 piston guns, aka. AK47. Let's say you went plinking with your direct impingement AR based rifle and didn't get to clean it and the zombies come, yea it might still work for a while, but its going to gum up and start failing. Now change that to a piston driven AR15, like a SIG, it will work all day everyday, even if you haven't cleaned it for 10,000 rounds, dropped it in mud, water, sand, dirt, you name it. That's what you get when you up your price target... So either get a AK47 to stay inexpensive, or get a real AR15, not that thing that was made in the 60's.... Just my opinion. This makes baby Jesus cry. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted May 8, 2022 8 minutes ago, High Exposure said: but they will be more than $1k. Ruger's AR556 can be had for under $1k. It's an excellent rifle. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted May 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, High Exposure said: This makes baby Jesus cry. You didn't play within the parameters. If the zombies come it's game on. Maglite suppressors and lightning links. Long stroke piston wins reliability. DI is better if you maintain it. More accurate for sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,661 Posted May 8, 2022 35 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said: Ruger's AR556 can be had for under $1k. It's an excellent rifle. I like Ruger as a company, but there is better value out there in the AR world IMO. Hell, you didn’t even include them in your “Supposedly the best” list (which is the part of your post I was referring to as being good to go but over $1k). Ruger was in your “lower” tier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,322 Posted May 8, 2022 1 minute ago, High Exposure said: I like Ruger as a company, but there is better value out there in the AR world IMO. Hell, you didn’t even include them in your “Supposedly the best” list (which is the part of your post I was referring to as being good to go but over $1k). Ruger was in your “lower” tier. So....What is the better value than Ruger? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,661 Posted May 8, 2022 43 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said: DI is better if you maintain it. More accurate for sure. I have seen many, Many, MANY more piston ARs fail than DI guns. And proprietary parts with no TDP suck. Piston guns don’t run cleaner or cooler than DI guns. The heat and dirt just go someplace else. On a piston gun, that someplace else was never designed to take the heat and dirt in the first place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,661 Posted May 8, 2022 1 minute ago, JohnnyB said: So....What is the better value than Ruger? I think the $600 Colt upper (That I linked to) on any quality mil-spec lower is a much better value. MM, BCM, FNH, Colt, LaRue, DD, LWRCI (their DI guns), LMT are all a better value, IMO. They may cost more, but you are getting a better product for your money. Best value always trumps lowest cost - Buy once, cry once. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,322 Posted May 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, High Exposure said: I think the $600 Colt upper (That I linked to) on any quality mil-spec lower is a much better value. MM, BCM, FNH, Colt, LaRue, DD, LWRCI (their DI guns), LMT are all a better value, IMO. They may cost more, but you are getting a better product for your money. Best value always trumps lowest cost - Buy once, cry once. I have the Colt upper on 2 of my builds! Thanks as always for your EXPERT advice! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorpio64 5,147 Posted May 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, High Exposure said: Ruger was in your “lower” tier. To be fair, I did not compile that list, I plucked it from a website where I more or less agreed with the list. I didn't even bother listing the lowest tier. A few years back when I was regularly on the Ruger forum, it was an instant hit, admittedly with a few hiccups, that Ruger ironed out. It's reliable, better than military accuracy and Ruger will fix it for free forever. I can't put Ruger in the same class as BCM, but I would not hesitate to depend on it for a moment. As a practical matter, there would be little difference in the hands of a marginally trained user. I am on board with building a lower and buying or building an upper. It can definitely save some money, but the experience of building and understanding how the rifle operates is more valuable. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheflife15 455 Posted May 8, 2022 As cool as building one is, that's for a later time. As of now I'm in a new career, getting married in 2 weeks, planning a honey moon, and looking at houses. The more i read about ruger the more I like it. One brand I haven't heard is Stag. I've seen stags at 4 gun stores today. No good? Also have seen the m and p volunteer, which I'm not sure why the price tag is so much higher then the m and p. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites