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CCW resources for NJ

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7 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

So if someone calls LE if you are printing or accidently expose your firearm while reaching for something on the top shelf, what happens then?

Do you want the appropriate reaction? Or the overreaction? 

This will be dependent on who answers the call, or which cop shows up. 

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2 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said:

How large/small is the target you're shooting for the test?

The HQC1, HQC2 & HNQC call for an FBI Q target. It approximates an average sized head & torso. Any shot within the outline counts as a hit. Basically the hit zone is huge! It is not really a good test of combat effectiveness.

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Just now, Mr.Stu said:

The HQC1, HQC2 & HNQC call for an FBI Q target. It approximates an average sized head & torso. Any shot within the outline counts as a hit. Basically the hit zone is huge! It is not really a good test of combat effectiveness.

Yeah I saw that after. It's an easy test to be honest

I still think that's just cause some of us actually shoot often. The average person can't hit paper at 15 yards

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2 minutes ago, Cheflife15 said:

Yeah I saw that after. It's an easy test to be honest

I still think that's just cause some of us actually shoot often. The average person can't hit paper at 15 yards

I know a retired NYPD guy that cant hit anything with his J Frame Smith - and claims he cant, lol - dunno, I hit all my targets at 15yds with mine - YMMV - :) 

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If you're going to carry you'd better be up to speed on self-defense law and practice. And how to conduct yourself in the event you are involved in a shooting. The actual shooting event may not be the worst part of the total experience, especially in New Jersey!

See my post from 2018 with a reading list to educate yourself on these topics. Others on the forum have also noted these books.

 

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11 minutes ago, 45Doll said:

If you're going to carry you'd better be up to speed on self-defense law and practice. And how to conduct yourself in the event you are involved in a shooting. The actual shooting event may not be the worst part of the total experience, especially in New Jersey!

See my post from 2018 with a reading list to educate yourself on these topics. Others on the forum have also noted these books.

 

The Law of Self Defense by Andrew Branca is a very good book on the legal requirements for a successful self defense claim.

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21 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

The HQC1, HQC2 & HNQC call for an FBI Q target. It approximates an average sized head & torso. Any shot within the outline counts as a hit. Basically the hit zone is huge! It is not really a good test of combat effectiveness.

I did some practice on one of those last night and it's definitely a forgiving target, even at 25 yards.

 

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The FBI Q target represents the vital areas of the body where a hit is most likely to stop a threat.  It sort of looks like a bowing pin.    The standard one is hit or miss.   There are variations with circles in the head and chest that may be worth more points and ones on a larger silhouette where hits outside the bowling pin are worth lesser points.

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4 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

I did some practice on one of those last night and it's definitely a forgiving target.

 

For more realistic training and practice, I suggest using a USPSA/IPSC target and be honest with yourself about hits in the A-zone on the body. Head shots are not in modern TTPs.

USPSA (22470) | GunFun Shooting Targets

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44 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

For more realistic training and practice, I suggest using a USPSA/IPSC target and be honest with yourself about hits in the A-zone on the body. Head shots are not in modern TTPs.

I was just practicing with the Q target to get familiar with it...

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2 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

The HQC1, HQC2 & HNQC call for an FBI Q target. It approximates an average sized head & torso. Any shot within the outline counts as a hit. Basically the hit zone is huge! It is not really a good test of combat effectiveness.

 

2 hours ago, KurtC said:

The FBI Q target represents the vital areas of the body where a hit is most likely to stop a threat.  It sort of looks like a bowing pin.    The standard one is hit or miss.   There are variations with circles in the head and chest that may be worth more points and ones on a larger silhouette where hits outside the bowling pin are worth lesser points.

 

I spoke to my neighbor last night who is a retired Corrections Officer, yep he did say that it is a silhouette type target (and that years ago they used the more stringent oval with points increasing closer to the X...He also told me the max shot is 50 feet (also shorter than years ago). And he said as long as you hit the target you get 1 point...These make it a relatively easy shoot, but he did caveat that it can change from year to year and even btwn different Qual-Officers who are running the test.

He also said, and I was surprised at this, that he has to qualify 2X a year, I figured once a year...Can anyone confirm it is also 2X a year or not for those who are not retired cops?

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5 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

 

 

I spoke to my neighbor last night who is a retired Corrections Officer, yep he did say that it is a silhouette type target (and that years ago they used the more stringent oval with points increasing closer to the X...He also told me the max shot is 50 feet (also shorter than years ago). And he said as long as you hit the target you get 1 point...These make it a relatively easy shoot, but he did caveat that it can change from year to year and even btwn different Qual-Officers who are running the test.

He also said, and I was surprised at this, that he has to qualify 2X a year, I figured once a year...Can anyone confirm it is also 2X a year or not for those who are not retired cops?

So isn't the fact that qual-officers have the ability to modify the test, even in the smallest ways, constitute an objective requirement and against the Bruen ruling?

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7 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

So isn't the fact that qual-officers have the ability to modify the test, even in the smallest ways, constitute an objective requirement and against the Bruen ruling?

No.  The Bruen ruling only eliminated having to show need.

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15 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

He also said, and I was surprised at this, that he has to qualify 2X a year, I figured once a year...Can anyone confirm it is also 2X a year or not for those who are not retired cops?

From a retired LEO that I know and trust:

"I actually had to go online today to submit my RPO application to carry.  That is one of the things that will change for NJ next year because of the ruling.  NJ was charging retired officers yearly to carry and making them qualify twice per year.  Now it’s once a year and no fee because the state was basically violating the H.R. 218 law that Bush passed when he was in office."

Z:\ENGROSS\H218.EH (govinfo.gov)

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14 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

 

 

I spoke to my neighbor last night who is a retired Corrections Officer, yep he did say that it is a silhouette type target (and that years ago they used the more stringent oval with points increasing closer to the X...He also told me the max shot is 50 feet (also shorter than years ago). And he said as long as you hit the target you get 1 point...These make it a relatively easy shoot, but he did caveat that it can change from year to year and even btwn different Qual-Officers who are running the test.

He also said, and I was surprised at this, that he has to qualify 2X a year, I figured once a year...Can anyone confirm it is also 2X a year or not for those who are not retired cops?

For the civilian permit, you only need to qualify when you apply or renewal, which is every 2 years.

If you decide to carry a different handgun, qualify on your own and keep a copy for your records.  You will need it prove proficiency with that particular sidearm in the event of a shooting.

If the qual is 60 rounds, the standard Q target is 5 points or 0, hit or miss.  Divide your total point by three.  If it is the Q target with the inner circles and the outside border.  The circles are 5, the bowling pin is 4 and the border is 3.  Outside the border is 0.  Add up and divide by 3. 

 

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10 minutes ago, KurtC said:

For the civilian permit, you only need to qualify when you apply or renewal, which is every 2 years.

If you decide to carry a different handgun, qualify on your own and keep a copy for your records.  You will need it prove proficiency with that particular sidearm in the event of a shooting.

If the qual is 60 rounds, the standard Q target is 5 points or 0, hit or miss.  Divide your total point by three.  If it is the Q target with the inner circles and the outside border.  The circles are 5, the bowling pin is 4 and the border is 3.  Outside the border is 0.  Add up and divide by 3. 

 

Thanks for the information! What is the passing score on the 2 scenarios you presented?

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Every  qual I have used has been 80% minimum.  You usually get two chances.  If you pass on the first round, ask if you can use a different handgun for the second.  Make sure they put both handguns on your paperwork.

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5 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

The HQC1, HQC2 & HNQC call for an FBI Q target. It approximates an average sized head & torso. Any shot within the outline counts as a hit. Basically the hit zone is huge! It is not really a good test of combat effectiveness.

Yes. This is what the Q Targets look like. Scoring is simple - in the white is a hit, in the gray is a miss. 

UwYjYRS.jpg 

The head was a HQC2 (50 rounds, 25 yards and in to 1 yd) and HNQC (40 rounds,15 yards and in to 1yd with a handheld light) for 2 RDS equipped pistols - G19 and G48. (180 rounds total)

The body is a HQC2 and HNQC for 6 guns including a G34, G17, G48, 2” j frame, 1911, and a Ruger LCP .380. The Ruger was the hardest to qual with and account for the low belly hits at the 25. (540 rounds total)

Keep in mind there is a support hand shooting at 5 yards where you have to fire two or three pairs (2 pairs for HQC2, 3 pairs for HQC1) with your support hand.

Like Stu said, it is not much of a challenge and it isn’t training. It’s merely a test of the most basic of marksmanship and manipulation skills. Being able to ace this does not mean you are a steely eyed gunslinger. Only that you likely won’t shoot yourself in the hand or foot.

For actual training - B8, IPSC/IDPA, VTAC, MSP, or any target with a smaller scoreable area (A box or smaller) is a must if working pure accuracy. Look online and there are lots of free targets and drills online.

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High Exposure

Being able to ace this does not mean you are a steely eyed gunslinger. Only that you likely won’t shoot yourself in the hand or foot."

 

Well said and I agree 100%. I am sure I couold pass right now if asked to, but want some more training before I apply

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4 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

It’s merely a test of the most basic of marksmanship and manipulation skills. Being able to ace this does not mean you are a steely eyed gunslinger. Only that you likely won’t shoot yourself in the hand or foot.

Equally, if you are nervous about being able to pass this, and believe there is a high probability that you will fail, you should seriously consider getting more training and practice before getting strapped and going forth. I have no personal experience other than simunitions training (which really does carry a pain penalty), but it is well known that under high stress your actions will default to your base performance.

I do not support government mandated training requirements, but as a community, we should be advocating responsible gun handling and 'policing our own'.

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1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

Yes. This is what the Q Targets look like. Scoring is simple - in the white is a hit, in the gray is a miss. 

UwYjYRS.jpg 

The head was a HQC2 (50 rounds, 25 yards and in to 1 yd) and HNQC (40 rounds,15 yards and in to 1yd with a handheld light) for 2 RDS equipped pistols - G19 and G48. (180 rounds total)

The body is a HQC2 and HNQC for 6 guns including a G34, G17, G48, 2” j frame, 1911, and a Ruger LCP .380. The Ruger was the hardest to qual with and account for the low belly hits at the 25. (540 rounds total)

Keep in mind there is a support hand shooting at 5 yards where you have to fire two or three pairs (2 pairs for HQC2, 3 pairs for HQC1) with your support hand.

Like Stu said, it is not much of a challenge and it isn’t training. It’s merely a test of the most basic of marksmanship and manipulation skills. Being able to ace this does not mean you are a steely eyed gunslinger. Only that you likely won’t shoot yourself in the hand or foot.

For actual training - B8, IPSC/IDPA, VTAC, MSP, or any target with a smaller scoreable area (A box or smaller) is a must if working pure accuracy. Look online and there are lots of free targets and drills online.

I "get" the target, but could you clarify, is this a police qualification (the high round count, the many guns, and weapon light)? What does HQc2 and HNQC stand for?

Thanks in advance.

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9 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

I "get" the target, but could you clarify, is this a police qualification (the high round count, the many guns, and weapon light)? What does HQc2 and HNQC stand for?

Thanks in advance.

HQC = Handgun Qualification Course (of fire)

There are 2 versions, hence HQC1 & HQC2.

HNQC = Handgun Night Qualification Course (of fire)

This is the low-light course of fire.

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9 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

If you're still there by the time the cops show up (you don't need to run away, but if you're done with what you're doing carry on with your day), keep your hands visible and don't make furtive movements. When the cops approach and make contact they will most likely ask about the gun. Explain to them that you have a NJ carry permit and where the pistol is located on your body - still keeping your hands visible - and after they ask to see your permit slowly reach into your pocket/whatever and retrieve it.

My personal opinion on if they ask to secure your weapon for "officer safety" is to ask them to leave it safely in the holster where the trigger is covered and it is most safe. Guns that are not being handled are least likely to go off by accident.

It is also wise to keep your permit in a pocket on the opposite side of your body that you carry on. I carry at 4 o'clock right side and my permits are always in my left front pocket. That way I never have to go near my firearm in case of a police encounter.

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11 hours ago, gunforhire said:

Well we are posting more classes daily for the NJ CCW course/qualification. 
https://gunforhire.com/nj-ccw-permit/

Thanks Anthony.

Have things settled down, or are the state police (and others) still making changes every day?

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18 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

HQC = Handgun Qualification Course (of fire)

There are 2 versions, hence HQC1 & HQC2.

HNQC = Handgun Night Qualification Course (of fire)

This is the low-light course of fire.

 

Can anyone confirm that it is acceptable to the State'NJ that a person living in another state can be used as a reference on the carry permit application?

Thanks in Advance.

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7 hours ago, Combat Auto said:

 

Can anyone confirm that it is acceptable to the State'NJ that a person living in another state can be used as a reference on the carry permit application?

Thanks in Advance.

I've used references from Delaware for my FID card and for multiple handgun purchase permits since I live in Salem County and used to work just over the bridge.  Never had a problem with it.  I would think they would accept the same for CCW but the only way to be sure would be to ask what ever department you are applying through. 

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9 hours ago, Regular Guy said:

I've used references from Delaware for my FID card and for multiple handgun purchase permits since I live in Salem County and used to work just over the bridge.  Never had a problem with it.  I would think they would accept the same for CCW but the only way to be sure would be to ask what ever department you are applying through. 

Thanks...Sounds right...Two close friends living near me moved last year, another died either of phenonium or COVID 2 years ago...I may have to use a friend from Staten Island for reference 3...I have other friends who just don't "get" 2A so I'd rather not ask them (they been brainwashed).

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