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JackDaWack

CCW resources for NJ

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 I'd like a place for people to go without having to sift through 430+ post about the SCOTUS issue that was decided. 

This is not a discussion on the SCOTUS opinion. Do not interject those opinions here, do them in the national discussion. This is ONLY for NJ residents to have a place to discuss resources and the application process for receiving your CCW.

If you are applying, or plan to, it would be helpful for the folks here in NJ to know the process. 

I was most interested in understanding which firearms training people have done or know of which satisfies the current statute. This could be helpful for many people planning to apply, and could be done while awaiting a formal decision to start the application process. 

It would be great if a place like GunforHire had something for us up here in NNJ.

 

Mods: this could be better placed in the CCW subforum, but it said no "law" discussion. It wasn't clear...

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1 hour ago, DirtyDigz said:

This post by @Mr.Stu is extremely relevant:
 

 

 

The application is mainly procedural, and (redacted). You do need to get 2 sets of  physical fingerprints on those atf/fbi cards.

The big question is how to get the training (part 1) or qualification (part 2 or 3) of the statute satisfied. 

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36 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

The application is mainly procedural, and done online now if I recall. You do need to get 2 sets of  physical fingerprints on those atf/fbi cards.

The big question is how to get the training (part 1) or qualification (part 2 or 3) of the statute satisfied. 

The application is not online - you still need to submit the paper form in triplicate. When I applied through NJSP back in 2017 they sent me to Morphotrack again for the fingerprints. I was told at that time that that would initiate the national background check too.

I got my quals done with Robert Bajor who is listed on the NJSP web site. He gave me a completed RPO form which I do not know will be accepted for non RPO applications. He did say that if I needed it in a different format, he would be happy to sign that too.

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9 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

The application is not online - you still need to submit the paper form in triplicate. When I applied through NJSP back in 2017 they sent me to Morphotrack again for the fingerprints. I was told at that time that that would initiate the national background check too.

I got my quals done with Robert Bajor who is listed on the NJSP web site. He gave me a completed RPO form which I do not know will be accepted for non RPO applications. He did say that if I needed it in a different format, he would be happy to sign that too.

I was just double checking when you responded, yes FARS doesn't have CCW option so it's paper application. 

I originally assumed they would do fingerprints electronically, but it said 2 sets. Not sure what's better considering the fee morphotrack charges..

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I posted this elsewhere, but I think it got lost.

I would advise patience here. This is brand new.
 

NY’s justifiable need clause was cast out as unconstitutional. Great.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that NJ’s was as well. While the meat of the laws in both states are similar, the details are different. it may require a similar SCOTUS case with NJ, or it may not.

As of now, nothing in NJ has changed and I imagine the AG and DCJ are determining the next steps for our state.

Don’t rush. We have all been patient for years. A few more weeks to let the dust settle and see what’s on the horizon won’t hurt. Remember, a denial is forever. It would be a huge waste of time and money to get denied now, and have to deal with that at every step going forward, when you are so close.

Like the man said, “Patience is a virtue.”

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4 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

I posted it elsewhere, but I think it got lost.

I would advice patience here. This is brand new. NY’s justifiable need clause was cast out as unconstitutional. Great.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that NJ’s was as well. While the meat of the laws in both states are similar, the details are different. it may require a similar SCOTUS case with NJ, or it may not.

As of now, nothing in NJ has changed and I imagine the AG and DCJ are determining the next steps for our state.

Don’t rush. We have all been patient for years. A few more weeks to let the dust settle and see what’s on the horizon won’t hurt. Remember, a denial is forever. It would be a huge waste of time and money to get denied now, and have to deal with that at every step going forward, when you are so close.

Like the man said, “Patience is a virtue.”

hmm you have a point :unsure: 

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29 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

I posted it elsewhere, but I think it got lost.

I would advice patience here. This is brand new. NY’s justifiable need clause was cast out as unconstitutional. Great.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that NJ’s was as well. While the meat of the laws in both states are similar, the details are different. it may require a similar SCOTUS case with NJ, or it may not.

As of now, nothing in NJ has changed and I imagine the AG and DCJ are determining the next steps for our state.

Don’t rush. We have all been patient for years. A few more weeks to let the dust settle and see what’s on the horizon won’t hurt. Remember, a denial is forever. It would be a huge waste of time and money to get denied now, and have to deal with that at every step going forward, when you are so close.

Like the man said, “Patience is a virtue.”

Since I was already denied in 2018, for me it is just checking yes instead of no for 1 question and filling in 4 more boxes. No big deal.

I'm going to submit ASAP as the background check is likely to be stretched out to the maximum 60 days, or more anyway. Maybe in 2 months TPTB will have figured out they don't have any wriggle room left.

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34 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

I posted it elsewhere, but I think it got lost.

I would advice patience here. This is brand new. NY’s justifiable need clause was cast out as unconstitutional. Great.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that NJ’s was as well. While the meat of the laws in both states are similar, the details are different. it may require a similar SCOTUS case with NJ, or it may not.

As of now, nothing in NJ has changed and I imagine the AG and DCJ are determining the next steps for our state.

Don’t rush. We have all been patient for years. A few more weeks to let the dust settle and see what’s on the horizon won’t hurt. Remember, a denial is forever. It would be a huge waste of time and money to get denied now, and have to deal with that at every step going forward, when you are so close.

Like the man said, “Patience is a virtue.”

What he said. Please hold. 

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Just now, gunforhire said:

What he said. Please hold. 

As Dan Schmutter said on your show. A superior court judge who gets one of these applications across his desk will be in a bind. I am perfectly happy to make them squirm after denying us our rights for decades.

In my view they have to have been deliberately ignorant to fail to understand the plain language in the 2nd Amendment to keep denying people over and over again, no matter how many times it was explained in legal briefs. I'd be just fine if they were thrown in jail for breaking their oath to uphold the Constitution.

The 2nd Amendment didn't change today. It was just made undeniably clear that JN has been illegal all along. Any further denying of our rights is inexcusable.

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1 minute ago, Mr.Stu said:

As Dan Schmutter said on your show. A superior court judge who gets one of these applications across his desk will be in a bind. I am perfectly happy to make them squirm after denying us our rights for decades.

In my view they have to have been deliberately ignorant to fail to understand the plain language in the 2nd Amendment to keep denying people over and over again, no matter how many times it was explained in legal briefs. I'd be just fine if they were thrown in jail for breaking their oath to uphold the Constitution.

The 2nd Amendment didn't change today. It was just made undeniably clear that JN has been illegal all along. Any further denying of our rights is inexcusable.

Taping with Dan tomorrow. We will have better intel Sunday. 

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Since these changes are happening, can we have a "pinned" section, preferably at the top of the main page here with that information?  I know I will be looking and that seems like a good place to start.  I realize that New Jersey will fight as much as possible to avoid a permit/license system like Pennsylvania has, so I assume there will be lots of details...to try to confuse and scare away us ordinary citizens.

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I recently renewed my carry permit for the 17th time (yes, that's 34 years).  

Each time I have had to provide a recent qualification with the sidearm to be carried.   I have also had to provide a new set of fingerprints (the ones in your SBI file don't count).  The electronic ones are fine, but your local PD will need to assign you the investigation number in order to schedule it.

I suspect the SP will need to update the application form, once the SCOTUS ruling is sorted out. 

 

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1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

I posted it elsewhere, but I think it got lost.

I would advice patience here. This is brand new. NY’s justifiable need clause was cast out as unconstitutional. Great.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that NJ’s was as well. While the meat of the laws in both states are similar, the details are different. it may require a similar SCOTUS case with NJ, or it may not.

As of now, nothing in NJ has changed and I imagine the AG and DCJ are determining the next steps for our state.

Don’t rush. We have all been patient for years. A few more weeks to let the dust settle and see what’s on the horizon won’t hurt. Remember, a denial is forever. It would be a huge waste of time and money to get denied now, and have to deal with that at every step going forward, when you are so close.

Like the man said, “Patience is a virtue.”

While the argument was with regard to the NY state law, Alito did us a huge favor and wrote that opinion to be FAR reaching. It's clear NJs law is in violation. I can be patient, which is why I wanted a thread that has advice like this and others on how to proceed. As always your Input is appreciated. 

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Let's keep this on topic tho, I don't want it to delve into the courts opinion.  

We need to force this change around here and it starts with people following the prescribed process as it stands. 

10 minutes ago, KurtC said:

I recently renewed my carry permit for the 17th time (yes, that's 34 years).  

Each time I have had to provide a recent qualification with the sidearm to be carried.   I have also had to provide a new set of fingerprints (the ones in your SBI file don't count).  The electronic ones are fine, but your local PD will need to assign you the investigation number in order to schedule it.

I suspect the SP will need to update the application form, once the SCOTUS ruling is sorted out. 

 

Are you willing to share where or with whom you do your qualifications?

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I respect what Anthony is saying, but I'm torn here. Would it not be better to apply now when everything is up in the air and NJ has yet to place objective requirements to the CCW process? The thing is we know what the requirements are at the moment excluding "need". Anyway, what a day! :victory: 

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28 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

Let's keep this on topic tho, I don't want it to delve into the courts opinion.  

We need to force this change around here and it starts with people following the prescribed process as it stands. 

Are you willing to share where or with whom you do your qualifications?

I just checked with him.  He's traveling most of the time as an expert witness and just doesn't have the time to take on new clients. (He's also getting long in the tooth).

Pretty much anyone doing RPO quals can run you through a course of fire.  The problem is getting to the level of proficiency that you can just show up and run through. 

Most folks will need a defensive handgunning course first. 

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I am pretty sure someone (like Anthony) has this all figured out already.  Patience all.  I will take bets that if it becomes a true reality and these permits are being issued then GUNFORHIRE will offer everything you need to get it done.  I cant wait and have full faith in Anthony to tell us when to come down and get it done.

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3 minutes ago, Tunaman said:

I am pretty sure someone (like Anthony) has this all figured out already.  Patience all.  I will take bets that if it becomes a true reality and these permits are being issued then GUNFORHIRE will offer everything you need to get it done.  I cant wait and have full faith in Anthony to tell us when to come down and get it done.

Thank you. I’m a week or so we will know clearer. I hope. For now if anyone says that know what you need or ask for money to start the process.  It’s a scam. 
 

ant. 

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56 minutes ago, marlintag said:

I respect what Anthony is saying, but I'm torn here. Would it not be better to apply now when everything is up in the air and NJ has yet to place objective requirements to the CCW process? The thing is we know what the requirements are at the moment excluding "need". Anyway, what a day! :victory: 

That’s where you are wrong. Nothing is up in the air. Effectively, nothing has changed in NJ - yet.

It will, but that takes some time.

If you apply today you will be denied, just as if you applied yesterday. You may eventually win in a lawsuit, but that will take time and money.

No one, not Police Chiefs, not County Prosecutors, not Judges have been given any guidance with which to change current standing directives.

In the absence of a new set of rules to guide the process of applying for a CCW in NJ, the old process still stands - and - under the old process, you will be denied.

This is too new.

No one knows anything.

Take a breath and wait. 

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3 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

That’s where you are wrong. Nothing is up in the air. Effectively, nothing has changed in NJ - yet.

It will, but that takes some time.

If you apply today you will be denied, just as of you applied yesterday. You may eventually win in a lawsuit, but that will take time and money.

No one, not Police Chiefs, not County Prosecutors, not Judges have been given any guidance with which to change current standing directives.

In the absence of a new set of rules to guide the process of applying for a CCW in NJ, the old process still stands - and - under the old process, you will be denied.

This is too new.

No one knows anything.

Take a breath and wait. 

What he said!  My entire day, instead of celebrating has been this!  LOL. 

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14 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

That’s where you are wrong. Nothing is up in the air. Effectively, nothing has changed in NJ - yet.

It will, but that takes some time.

If you apply today you will be denied, just as of you applied yesterday. You may eventually win in a lawsuit, but that will take time and money.

No one, not Police Chiefs, not County Prosecutors, not Judges have been given any guidance with which to change current standing directives.

In the absence of a new set of rules to guide the process of applying for a CCW in NJ, the old process still stands - and - under the old process, you will be denied.

This is too new.

No one knows anything.

Take a breath and wait. 

I like you HE and respect all the good advice and experience you have shared over the years here. However, I have to take exception here.

What NJ has been telling Police Chiefs to do (deny on grounds of lack of JN), telling Superior Court Judges to do (deny on grounds of lack of JN), telling Appeal court Judges to do (deny on grounds of lack of JN), and telling the NJ Supreme Court to do (deny on grounds of lack of JN) has just been shown to be unconstitutional from the day it was written - the 2nd Amendment was never changed in all that time so it's meaning has not changed in all that time. There have been countless attempts to explain the plain language of the 2nd Amendment to all these people for decades, but they have persisted in pushing their illegal scheme.

Now I am really struggling to understand why the people of New Jersey should patiently wait for the same people who have been enforcing their illegal scheme to come up with a new scheme, when the simplest and most expedient solution is for them to: Just. Stop. Doing. It.

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Look, I get the hurry up and wait idea here. However, the Ball IS rolling. 

 

Again, let's keep the thread on topic this is about the process. You guys have the platform in the SCOTUS thread to discuss the legality and issues that lie there.

The warning has been laid out here that a denial is still entirely possible... its up to the individual at this point to make the decision if it's worth the risk. 

I for one, want to start putting together an application, find a person or place to get me qualified so the day I hear good news I'm walking in the door to the PD. Better sooner than later we build up an easy process for everyone here to reference so we can streamline ccw applicants. 

 

For now, lets keep the thread clear so we can update with actual CCW resources as they become available and info from people applying. 

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 was gonna apply beginning of week. i think i'm gonna wait a little. gonna check the links in the other thread for the course of fire, and see if i can do that. take more defensive training, etc. then apply when they've had time to have their act together.

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43 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

I like you HE and respect all the good advice and experience you have shared over the years here. However, I have to take exception here.

What NJ has been telling Police Chiefs to do (deny on grounds of lack of JN), telling Superior Court Judges to do (deny on grounds of lack of JN), telling Appeal court Judges to do (deny on grounds of lack of JN), and telling the NJ Supreme Court to do (deny on grounds of lack of JN) has just been shown to be unconstitutional from the day it was written - the 2nd Amendment was never changed in all that time so it's meaning has not changed in all that time. There have been countless attempts to explain the plain language of the 2nd Amendment to all these people for decades, but they have persisted in pushing their illegal scheme.

Now I am really struggling to understand why the people of New Jersey should patiently wait for the same people who have been enforcing their illegal scheme to come up with a new scheme, when the simplest and most expedient solution is for them to: Just. Stop. Doing. It.

Feeling is mutual Stu. You’re a good egg and I’m happy to know you.

Ultimately, You do you. We will each make our own decisions on what comes next.  Big boy rules apply.

I’m not trying to be a party pooper, I just don’t want anyone to make anything harder on themselves by rushing in.

Understand - I don’t disagree with where you are coming from. I’m saying, nothing has changed in NJ in a practical sense.

You're stating the denial of CCW permits based on Justifiable Need was unconstitutional from then beginning. I don’t disagree. They were, however, still being denied and they will still be denied until the authority contained in this SCOTUS decision makes it down to the people of NJ in a useful sense that the politicians and judges can not refute. Like it or not, that does not happen over night - hell, this is such a new decision that it hasn’t even been overnight yet!

I am preaching patience from a practical viewpoint - not a legal one.

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