raz-0 1,259 Posted June 23, 2022 The Bruen decision has me thinking of what would be good to mess up NJ's web of crap laws. My #1 would be suing not over the purchase permits themselves, but over all the fees associated with it as an infringement on civil rights. The suit would attach damages, which would include all legal fees, and for NJ to return all associated fees to those who had been affected by them or their estate. If it needs doing for public safety, let the public pay for it via tax money, not individual fees. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted June 23, 2022 I believe there's already a justifiable need lawsuit by Mark Cheeseman & Jay Factor. ANJRPC/CNJFO/SAF/NJ2AS/etc. have been backing it. The new SCOTUS ruling however does say "That said, because any permitting scheme can be put toward abusive ends, we do not rule out constitutional challenges to shall-issue regimes where, for example, lengthy wait times in processing license applications or exorbitant fees deny ordinary citizens their right to public carry." - I don't know if this could be used against the time frame for NJ FID's/PP's. It may also be able to be used to fight against any ridiculous increases in FID/Permitting costs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,777 Posted June 24, 2022 @gunforhire can probably address this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gunforhire 826 Posted June 24, 2022 There is a Murphy and AG presser today. All the 2A lawyers are plotting and planning. Thomas wrote a BRILLIANT decision and we are on track. Just cool down for a week or so. Way too many unknowns yet. Ant 1 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,259 Posted June 24, 2022 I'm not asking where the lawsuits at. I know that more or less. I'm asking for people to throw some ideas out there no matter how wild. Some fun speculation that might spark some ideas but probably won't. And maybe shoot some holes in said wild speculation because it might be educational. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,259 Posted June 24, 2022 Another idea. Thomas stated clearly arms are not just guns. So I wonder if we could wipe out the list of just straight up prohibited weapons. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M1152 713 Posted June 24, 2022 probably could have been its own thread but figured I drop it here... GOV. MURPHY TASKS ALL NJ AGENCIES WITH FINDING WAYS TO THWART BRUEN https://www.anjrpc.org/page/MurphyAnnouncesPlansToThwartBruen 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fred2 367 Posted June 24, 2022 Now we have to push for a Stand Your Ground law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diamondd817 826 Posted June 24, 2022 NJ AWB Mag Limits 1 Gun a Month Purchase Permits References, Contacting Your Employer "All Guns Are Illegal"/ exceptions NFA/Tax Stamp/MG's Hollowpoints 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CJack 138 Posted June 26, 2022 As I read the SCOTUS decision, I came across "common use" multiple times. NJ State has its agents roadm around all day and protect Politicians with all sorts of "Assault Weapons" and "High Capacity Magazines". Time to sue on that "Common Use" basis. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyDigz 1,811 Posted June 27, 2022 What about NJ’s law/legal structure that makes carrying any weapon (not just guns), specifically for the purpose of self defense, a crime? Per Nappen: Quote Under current New Jersey case law (See State v. Montalvo), pre-emptively arming oneself with a weapon for use OUTSIDE the home is NOT a court recognized “lawful use” under N.J.S. 2C:39-5d. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fslater 62 Posted July 1, 2022 This is a copy and paste of I thread I started but seemed to have gotten buried in the list without being much seen. Its in regard to 30 day must issue or deny statute that is routinely (to say the least) ignored. The whole premise of NJ being able to ignore the time table they themselves made law, is grounded in some camden judge ruling in the interest of public safety a permit or initial ID card does not have to meet this time table until their investigation is complete (give issuing authority carte blanche as when they decide to get around to looking at or doing anything what so ever with your application) In today's NY CCW ruling Supreme court justice Clarence Thomas wrote in the majority opinion: ""In keeping with Heller, we hold that when the Second Amendment's plain text covers an individual's conduct, the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct. To justify its regulation, the government may not simply posit that the regulation promotes an important interest. Does this SUPREME COURT RULING/opinion not directly apply to and negate the precedent set by this camden judge and replace it with the above as precedent? i.e. Statute says must issue or deny within 30 days, issuing authority must issue or deny within 30 days. the government may not simply posit that the regulation promotes an important interest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,259 Posted July 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, fslater said: This is a copy and paste of I thread I started but seemed to have gotten buried in the list without being much seen. Its in regard to 30 day must issue or deny statute that is routinely (to say the least) ignored. The whole premise of NJ being able to ignore the time table they themselves made law, is grounded in some camden judge ruling in the interest of public safety a permit or initial ID card does not have to meet this time table until their investigation is complete (give issuing authority carte blanche as when they decide to get around to looking at or doing anything what so ever with your application) In today's NY CCW ruling Supreme court justice Clarence Thomas wrote in the majority opinion: ""In keeping with Heller, we hold that when the Second Amendment's plain text covers an individual's conduct, the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct. To justify its regulation, the government may not simply posit that the regulation promotes an important interest. Does this SUPREME COURT RULING/opinion not negate the precedent set by this camden judge and replace it with the above as precedent? i.e. Statute says must issue or deny within 30 days, issuing authority must issue or deny within 30 days Does it negate it? Absolutely not, as it was not the question before the court, nor was it fundamentally similar to the question before the court. Does it provide a foundation for challenging it? Yes, definitely. Although your quoted portion is just the kneecapping of means balancing. The elimination of that means that the state can't argue that the state having in interest mitigates any infringement. they ahve to be able to argue by text, history, and tradition that a permitting process or similar analogue was something that existed at the initial signing off on the second amendment, or at the time of reformation after the civil war. That way the people signing off on it could have conceived of said law as a legitimate limitation on the right as they understood it at that time. He specifically calls out intentional delays to attempt to stifle the right as unconstitutional in his ruling. Because of that, there is grounds to argue that even the 30 day limit is invalid since instant background checks are available. The random delays up to and past a year are not only clearly a delaying tactic, but results in unequal treatment under the law. Significantly so. AND we documented the shit out of it. AND there's a shit ton of state testimony to hang them with about how and why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CJack 138 Posted July 1, 2022 10 minutes ago, fslater said: This is a copy and paste of I thread I started but seemed to have gotten buried in the list without being much seen. Its in regard to 30 day must issue or deny statute that is routinely (to say the least) ignored. The whole premise of NJ being able to ignore the time table they themselves made law, is grounded in some camden judge ruling in the interest of public safety a permit or initial ID card does not have to meet this time table until their investigation is complete (give issuing authority carte blanche as when they decide to get around to looking at or doing anything what so ever with your application) In today's NY CCW ruling Supreme court justice Clarence Thomas wrote in the majority opinion: ""In keeping with Heller, we hold that when the Second Amendment's plain text covers an individual's conduct, the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct. To justify its regulation, the government may not simply posit that the regulation promotes an important interest. Does this SUPREME COURT RULING/opinion not directly apply to and negate the precedent set by this camden judge and replace it with the above as precedent? i.e. Statute says must issue or deny within 30 days, issuing authority must issue or deny within 30 days. the government may not simply posit that the regulation promotes an important interest. It (the Heller and latest SCOTUS ruling) applies to this and million other shenanigans NJ Political, Bureaucratic and Judicial branches pull all day every day. Question is, who is going to kick them in the rear and make them follow ? Non stop lawsuits have to follow, which means WE (the collective 2A supporters) have to keep feeding money (which is not necessarily bad thing), but we cannot sit around, we need to keep the momentum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 482 Posted July 6, 2022 ***DELETED*** 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CJack 138 Posted July 7, 2022 On the topic, its VERY important for People in free states to buy, buy, buy every type of firearm out there and buy them frequently.. SCOTUS is focusing on "Commonly Used" and NJ is trying to take advantage of it by banning 50 cal and hoping SCOTUS will say things like that are not "common" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 482 Posted July 8, 2022 ***DELETED*** 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,296 Posted July 8, 2022 On 6/26/2022 at 6:01 PM, CJack said: As I read the SCOTUS decision, I came across "common use" multiple times. FINALLY, we can own slingshots!! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,262 Posted July 9, 2022 On 7/6/2022 at 11:10 AM, samiam said: As I have mentioned in other threads, I would love to see someone go after the NJ requirement(s) to list the make, model, and serial number of every handgun to be carried, that qualifications need to be done and recorded with each handgun specified, and that only the handgun(s) cited may be legally carried. Bob's Little Sport Shop · As of July 6, 2022 as per the NJSP 2C:58-4: The Applicant simpy needs to qualify with ONE HANGUN OWNED BY THE APPLICANT. THE APPLICANT CAN CARRY ANY HANDGUN ACQUIRED AFTER THE PERMIT TO CARRY IS ISSUED AND DO NOT HAVE TO RETRAIN WITH THAT NEW HANDGUN. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,731 Posted July 9, 2022 18 hours ago, 1LtCAP said: Bob's Little Sport Shop · As of July 6, 2022 as per the NJSP 2C:58-4: The Applicant simpy needs to qualify with ONE HANGUN OWNED BY THE APPLICANT. THE APPLICANT CAN CARRY ANY HANDGUN ACQUIRED AFTER THE PERMIT TO CARRY IS ISSUED AND DO NOT HAVE TO RETRAIN WITH THAT NEW HANDGUN. Ole Bob must be hating this decision….I know he was very anti-CCW. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 482 Posted July 9, 2022 ***DELETED*** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grima Squeakersen 482 Posted July 10, 2022 ***DELETED*** 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMJeepster 2,777 Posted July 10, 2022 3 hours ago, samiam said: AND BB guns? YOU'LL SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites