xXxplosive 819 Posted July 2, 2022 one would think that the qual. test would be standardized for all.....I don't get. Someone just sent me this... Did you see the NYS new law they rammed through? 16 hpurs of classroom and practical trainings, 2 hours range qualification, businesses are considered a prohibited zone unless the owner posts signage allowing guns, but the best...you must provide user names for all social media accounts. Looks like more court time. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 2, 2022 The GFH course is 200 bucks for two handguns, right off the bat for a 30 minute range session, that includes little to no actually training I found it to be rather expensive. Ya know what though, I have no issues giving Ant my money, they guy has been fighting this fight since I met him back in 2010. The price will come down when more courses are available from others. Right now, I'm not keen on shopping around not knowing if the course will be accepted by the State. You need to recertify ever 2 years,, within 6 months of filing a new application. 4 minutes ago, xXxplosive said: one would think that the qual. test would be standardized for all.....I don't get. Someone just sent me this... Did you see the NYS new law they rammed through? 16 hpurs of classroom and practical trainings, 2 hours range qualification, businesses are considered a prohibited zone unless the owner posts signage allowing guns, but the best...you must provide user names for all social media accounts. Looks like more court time. I think you will see an injunction in the next week over all of this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted July 2, 2022 29 minutes ago, JackDaWack said: The GFH course is 200 bucks for two handguns, right off the bat for a 30 minute range session, that includes little to no actually training I found it to be rather expensive. Ya know what though, I have no issues giving Ant my money, they guy has been fighting this fight since I met him back in 2010. The price will come down when more courses are available from others. Right now, I'm not keen on shopping around not knowing if the course will be accepted by the State. You need to recertify ever 2 years,, within 6 months of filing a new application. I think you will see an injunction in the next week over all of this. Something to keep in mind is that this is for Qualification only, not a class. That means GFH is signing off that you are qualified to handle/operate a gun. That's a pretty significant responsibility/liability. IMO I just want to get in, do the qual, and get out. If I thought I needed training I'd sign up for a class of some kind, but I thought the point was to eliminate the need for hours of additional 'CCW training'? And the price of the course is $150 if you only have one gun. That's the same as RTSP. Reloaderz is $10 more an they use the much more difficult HQC-1 qual. I don't think you're going to find anything much cheaper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 819 Posted July 2, 2022 But the qual courses at the 2 facilities you mention differ..........GFH vs RTSP......what's acceptable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said: Something to keep in mind is that this is for Qualification only, not a class. That means GFH is signing off that you are qualified to handle/operate a gun. That's a pretty significant responsibility/liability. IMO I just want to get in, do the qual, and get out. If I thought I needed training I'd sign up for a class of some kind, but I thought the point was to eliminate the need for hours of additional 'CCW training'? And the price of the course is $150 if you only have one gun. That's the same as RTSP. Reloaderz is $10 more an they use the much more difficult HQC-1 qual. I don't think you're going to find anything much cheaper. I'm not arguing for/against training. Just that the margin at these prices is significant. A multi hour course, with direct instruction of increased value doesn't cost much more. I do expect prices to come down once competition sees an opportunity. A smaller one man operation could do this for half the price. 11 minutes ago, xXxplosive said: But the qual courses at the 2 facilities you mention differ..........GFH vs RTSP......what's acceptable. ???? No one knows. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 819 Posted July 2, 2022 Then what are they payin' money for.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, xXxplosive said: Then what are they payin' money for.............. Like I said, I have no issues paying for something that resembles the HCQ with minor differences, but retains the primary course of fire. I wouldnt take anything less than that. Keep in mind, NJ could pass a law that requires more training prior to anyone being approved, and they would have to start all over again. A lot of unknowns right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXxplosive 819 Posted July 2, 2022 why I'm waiting to see...............I would think anything that's acceptable to the state requirements would be uniform in structure and not this here and that there. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,882 Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, JackDaWack said: You need to recertify ever 2 years,, within 6 months of filing a new application. You need to qualify with the gun you intend to carry every 6 months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 2, 2022 40 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said: You need to qualify with the gun you intend to carry every 6 months. According to who? We are not held to the RPO, LEO and armed security standards. No where in the licensing requirements does it state such. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Stu 1,882 Posted July 2, 2022 23 minutes ago, JackDaWack said: According to who? We are not held to the RPO, LEO and armed security standards. No where in the licensing requirements does it state such. You know what, you could be right. I can't find it anywhere either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 2, 2022 18 minutes ago, samiam said: I suspect that individual instructors and ranges don't control the price for hte NRA CCW course, as that is $295 everywhere it's listed, including the official NRA site. This isn't the NRA CCW course, but in comparison, the NRA basics class is over 4 hours long and costs the same. Not sure how long the CCW course is. All I know is, my wish list for gifts has now become gift certificates to GFH lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveR 42 Posted July 13, 2022 On 7/2/2022 at 9:02 AM, JackDaWack said: GFH course of fire represents the HQC, and scoring method. Not sure what RTSP does but I would be worry of anything less than the standard string of shots from the HQC. Curious as to where this 50 shot qualification is shown on the state police web site? I guess all the firearm training facilities in NJ are going by what they use for, say security guards? But there are differences in RTSP ( holster draw and 15 yard max ) and GFH.( no holster and 25 yard max. ) They both cant be correct. All I can find is a 60 shot day and 40 shot night qualification. https://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/pdfs/dcj-firearms.pdf Seems a bit crazy everyone is rushing out to take training and qualification shooting without a clear statement from the state of NJ as to what exactly is required. Yes, training is good, proper training is better. Seems like allot of confusion as some say qualification every 6 months, like a PO, or possibly every 2 years with renewal? Training is 4hr NRA? 8hr NRA? Special class for NJ, kind of like Utah? Even GFH warns, nothing set in stone 'Disclaimer: The State Police seems to be adding and changing requirements daily. For the people who are willing to apply early and risk changes we cannot be held liable for any changes that occur after you qualify with us. You’ve been warned.' 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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DaveR 42 Posted July 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, samiam said: NRA CCW at FMJ: I was told to expect to be there for two full days (dunno the hours per day, but can't imagine to be less than four). NTM they want us to have 350 - 400 rounds and err toward the 400. With one instructor (even with assistants) and several students (sign-up sheets for each scheduled class looked to hold about 20 names), firing that much ammo will take a while. Talk about extending the current ammo shortage, And lightening your wallet. Best prices in my area are blazer aluminum at $16 and brass at $18 a box. I look online and prices are even higher. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 14, 2022 2 hours ago, samiam said: NRA CCW at FMJ: I was told to expect to be there for two full days (dunno the hours per day, but can't imagine to be less than four). NTM they want us to have 350 - 400 rounds and err toward the 400. With one instructor (even with assistants) and several students (sign-up sheets for each scheduled class looked to hold about 20 names), firing that much ammo will take a while. Seems like a bit much when I'm going for a 30 minute qualifier and 50 rounds per gun. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
124gr9mm 857 Posted July 14, 2022 37 minutes ago, JackDaWack said: Seems like a bit much when I'm going for a 30 minute qualifier and 50 rounds per gun. Indeed. I think people are conflating 'training' and 'qualification'. The course details provided thus far for GFH and RTSP are for qualification, not training. That means you go there, shoot the course of fire, and receive a pass or fail. If you go to either place to take the qualifier there's a presumption/expectation that you have the requisite 'training' to pass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GlennS87 65 Posted July 14, 2022 I took the NJ CCW class at ROC Training a couple of days ago and submitted my paperwork yesterday. Rocco told us that the NJSP removed the shooting qual altogether and left it up to instructor discretion. He feels this was done to actually make things more difficult as the person who signs off on you is accepting some legal liability if the CCW holder screws up. By removing the qual officially, it makes it so someone can't say well I passed the "state" test. He makes everyone take a modified HQC qual to pass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 14, 2022 1 hour ago, GlennS87 said: I took the NJ CCW class at ROC Training a couple of days ago and submitted my paperwork yesterday. Rocco told us that the NJSP removed the shooting qual altogether and left it up to instructor discretion. He feels this was done to actually make things more difficult as the person who signs off on you is accepting some legal liability if the CCW holder screws up. By removing the qual officially, it makes it so someone can't say well I passed the "state" test. He makes everyone take a modified HQC qual to pass. It's not up the the NJSP to remove any part of the permitting process. They could process permits without the shooting qual, but that would only be for people going through the NJSP. It's been reported already that judges are requiring you to qualify with the handgun you want to carry, so I see some conflicts here. There are a few ways to meet the statute, and one of them does not require a shooting qualification. Liability would be gross negligence, and following the states process as per statute, it would be difficult to show liability. The state would be as liable for approving the permit if they felt the criteria was insufficient. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fred2 367 Posted July 14, 2022 The entire permitting process is BS if you go by the Bruen ruling. What tests did they give the Minutemen, and what fees did they have to pay, prior to letting them join the militia? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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JackDaWack 2,894 Posted July 14, 2022 23 minutes ago, samiam said: Yeah. I bought 500 rounds so I would have some for plinking, too. I keep Hornady Critical Defense (and LeverRevolution) for home defense (and plan to use HCD for carry). I understand the "practice with what you will use" concept, and generally endorse it. But I was damned if I was going to buy 400 rounds HCD to blow through in two days of class. I'm not sure I could have found it in that quantity if I wanted to use it. I paid $26.25 per box for Fiocchi .38 Spl brass, FMJ from Ammo Supply Warehouse. Fairly sucky price, but there really wasn't much choice. Every local shop I checked within reasonable driving distance was completely out of stock on all .357 Mag & .38 Spl. At least ASW still ships to NJ and the shippng rate was reasonable. Also received it in 6 days, which isn't too bad. My wife and I have three revolvers and a lever gun here in .357 Mag, so any left over won't go to waste. I feel ya, for someone who reloads its a kick in the pants to buy inflated priced ammo. Right before the pandemic I bought a 1k case of federal HST for 400 bucks. I'm not comfortable carrying hollow point tho so it's only a home defense round. I plan on qualifying with my known handloads that have proven accuracy. Bulk plinking ammo isn't really that great out to 25 yards in a small ccw firearm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RadioGunner 218 Posted July 15, 2022 On 7/14/2022 at 12:38 PM, JackDaWack said: I plan on qualifying with my known handloads that have proven accuracy. Bulk plinking ammo isn't really that great out to 25 yards in a small ccw firearm. I had no problems with a 3.3" .45 with Winchester white box factory ammo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites