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Concealed Carry Handguns

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4 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

That's more to do with operator error, than a gun issue.

Relying on a manual safety to save you from incorrect gun/holster manipulation is not the answer, IMO.

I'm not looking for an easy way to obsolve myself from training or responsibility. I'm the kind of person who locks his car door twice then tries the handle to make it sure it's locked. Maybe it's OCD, paranoia, call ot whatever you will. I feel safer with a safefy engaged when I'm flagging my privates.

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If it is something you are concerned with, holstering a hammer fired gun while carrying CCW can be considered “safer” even without a safety. With hammer fired guns, your thumb rides the hammer as you reholster. If anything makes the trigger move - like something in the trigger guard - you feel it instantly in the movement of the hammer and can stop and fix it before you get the loud noise.

There is something called “The Striker Control Device” that they make for Glocks that simulates this safety feature. It works pretty well and is a great option if you are uncomfortable carrying a Glock AIWB. It is an expensive little piece of kit, but what price peace of mind? :rolleyes:

I have one but I’ve only used it in a class setting (some instructors will not let you attend a CCW class with an AIWB Glock without one).

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4 hours ago, MartyZ said:

I feel safer with a safefy engaged when I'm flagging my privates.

Indeed.

My carry pistol has a manual safety as well.  I like my Glock(s), but I'm more comfortable with a manual safety being there while tucked away IWB.

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1 minute ago, 124gr9mm said:

Indeed.

My carry pistol has a manual safety as well.  I like my Glock(s), but I'm more comfortable with a manual safety being there while tucked away IWB.

Meh. Been carrying a Glock or a Zev AIWB for 3+ years now. 
 

Is your dick pulling the trigger? If the gun is in a good holster not sure it makes any difference. 

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Well I’m waiting on my permit but my plan is

Winter / Fall

glock 19 gen 5 w/ Bravo concealment torsion iwb holster with wing or a Kusiack leather American holster. Both are extremely comfortable 

Summer / Spring

springfield hellcat - same holsters

 

Ammo for both is

Underwood 90 grain +p Xtreme Defender

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2 hours ago, Alex V said:

If the gun is in a good holster not sure it makes any difference. 

Exactly.

Doesn't make a difference.

Some guns are made with external safeties, some aren't.

Pick the one that works best for you.  Carrying (or not) a Glock isn't a badge of honor.

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1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:

Exactly.

Doesn't make a difference.

Some guns are made with external safeties, some aren't.

Pick the one that works best for you.  Carrying (or not) a Glock isn't a badge of honor.

Too many people make the thumb safety some kind of magic totem. 
 

It isn’t. 

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19 minutes ago, Alex V said:

Too many people make the thumb safety some kind of magic totem. 
 

It isn’t. 

Some people make striker fired pistols out to be the best thing since sliced bread.

They're Not.

Everyone has their own opinions and preferences.

Too many people on this board feel obligated to belittle the opinions of others and push their own opinions. Sounds an awful lot like another group of people we all know <_<

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What type of maintenance do you guys do besides cleaning? 

Any replacement of springs? How many rounds should go through a gun until it's considered not as reliable.  

I have over 5000 through my cz shadow and I've had zero issues but I like to train with the gun I will be hopefully carrying.

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Follow the manufacturers’ recommended intervals for preventative maintenance. Have spare parts on hand before you need them. For me magazine and recoil springs are changed the most religiously.

My carry guns are cleaned and inspected for function after they are shot. I’ll also occasionally inspect for function and lube if I haven’t shot them in a while.

Training, competition, and recreational guns are wiped down and lubed after shooting and cleaned when I feel like it. Usually these go a few thousand rounds between cleaning. 

Everything is stripped and inspected once a year.

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4 hours ago, Alex V said:

Meh. Been carrying a Glock or a Zev AIWB for 3+ years now. 
 

Is your dick pulling the trigger? If the gun is in a good holster not sure it makes any difference. 

I just got a PHLster Enigma holster as I wear a lot of sweat pants and shorts without belt loops now (especially after my surgery last year).  Been carrying around the house with the holster on (AIWB) with my Glock 48 and I gotta say - I'm getting more and more comfortable with it.  It's a great holster with no way of pulling the trigger when it's holstered.  

Remember - you don't have to re-holster quickly - take your time.  Dry fire practice helps a lot too - practice that draw and re-holster and you'll get a lot more comfortable with it.

 

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9 hours ago, MartyZ said:

Some people make striker fired pistols out to be the best thing since sliced bread.

They're Not.

Everyone has their own opinions and preferences.

Too many people on this board feel obligated to belittle the opinions of others and push their own opinions. Sounds an awful lot like another group of people we all know <_<

The point is that they are no less safe than those with a manually operated safeties. Safe operation relies on the switch between the ears, not the one on the slide. 
 

Pot meet kettle when you poo poo the carrying of striker fired guns. 

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14 minutes ago, Alex V said:

The point is that they are no less safe than those with a manually operated safeties. Safe operation relies on the switch between the ears, not the one on the slide. 
 

Pot meet kettle when you poo poo the carrying of striker fired guns. 

The switch between the ears is not perfect. Even the most trained and disciplined people make mistakes in a high stress situation. Adding a manual safety is just extra protection from a momentary brain fart imo.

I just thought of another scenario where a manual safety might be useful. If god forbit the bad guy pulls your gun out of your holster during a scuffle. That manual safety might just save your life.

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17 minutes ago, MartyZ said:

I just thought of another scenario where a manual safety might be useful. If god forbit the bad guy pulls your gun out of your holster during a scuffle. That manual safety might just save your life.

Glocks and the like have become so prevalent that the manual safety is quickly becoming the manual transmission of anti-theft devices.

Kinda.

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11 hours ago, Cheflife15 said:

What type of maintenance do you guys do besides cleaning? 

Any replacement of springs? How many rounds should go through a gun until it's considered not as reliable.  

I have over 5000 through my cz shadow and I've had zero issues but I like to train with the gun I will be hopefully carrying.

Once we start carrying the new maintenance item will be cleaning the holster crud regularly. Most guns we’ve been shooting, clean and back in the safe. Now they’ll be spending time holstered. 

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11 hours ago, Cheflife15 said:

What type of maintenance do you guys do besides cleaning? 

Any replacement of springs? How many rounds should go through a gun until it's considered not as reliable.  

I have over 5000 through my cz shadow and I've had zero issues but I like to train with the gun I will be hopefully carrying.

Once we start carrying the new maintenance item will be cleaning the holster crud regularly. Most guns we’ve been shooting, clean and back in the safe. Now they’ll be spending time holstered. 

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3 hours ago, MartyZ said:

The switch between the ears is not perfect. Even the most trained and disciplined people make mistakes in a high stress situation. Adding a manual safety is just extra protection from a momentary brain fart imo.

I just thought of another scenario where a manual safety might be useful. If god forbit the bad guy pulls your gun out of your holster during a scuffle. That manual safety might just save your life.

Okay, so who’s to say you’re going to remember to flip that safety when you need to draw?

 

It works both ways. 
 

I just don’t see how in your pants, in a good holster, the manual safety is doing anything to protect your twig and berries over a striker fired gun. In the holster it’s doing literally nothing. 
 

the original post I replied to made it seem like a manual safety is somehow helping the gun not shoot your nuts off. 

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1 hour ago, Alex V said:

Okay, so who’s to say you’re going to remember to flip that safety when you need to draw?

 

It works both ways. 
 

I just don’t see how in your pants, in a good holster, the manual safety is doing anything to protect your twig and berries over a striker fired gun. In the holster it’s doing literally nothing. 
 

the original post I replied to made it seem like a manual safety is somehow helping the gun not shoot your nuts off. 

Truth^^^

Up until recently I was a big advocate for 1911 carry. This was until I took pistol classes and saw fellow students forgetting to turn their safety's off on the draw, or the grip safety interfering with their firing grip which would often affect their accuracy. The manual safety is on a defensive carry gun is an intentional obstacle you're placing on yourself, one that could cost you your life. My carry gun does not and will not have a safety. If those of you feel uneasy about appendix carry, you can apply a large foam wedge to the backside of your holster which will tilt the gun away from your body, it works for me. :B:):

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Deactivating the safety, or forgetting to is the result of insufficient training and practice.

I compete with striker fired guns without manual safeties (Glock, P320, XD/XDm) and guns with manual safeties (1911, BHP, CZ75). I have no issue making the gun go bang when I want it to from the draw.

If you don't handle your gun regularly, yes you could fluff the safety. You could also get a bad grip, not have your sights aligned at the end of the draw stroke, all sorts of things. I have even seen a gun get pulled from the holster and tossed across the range as a competitor swept his concealment garment out of the way - his hand never touched the gun and he earned himself a DQ.

Words from top tier guys - "You might practice until you get it right. We practice until we can't get it wrong."

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2 hours ago, Alex V said:

Okay, so who’s to say you’re going to remember to flip that safety when you need to draw?

 

It works both ways. 
 

I just don’t see how in your pants, in a good holster, the manual safety is doing anything to protect your twig and berries over a striker fired gun. In the holster it’s doing literally nothing. 
 

the original post I replied to made it seem like a manual safety is somehow helping the gun not shoot your nuts off. 

Keep in mind I carry a Glock AIWB daily with no additional safety features and am comfortable doing so.

That being said, your idea of what protections a manual safety provides is a little off.

A manual safety is not for when the gun is fully seated in the holster.

The most “dangerous” moment for self inflicted damage when carrying a handgun AIWB is the final push to “click” the gun back into the holsters retention.

A manual safety is for the instant the gun “clicks” out of holster retention until the moment it “clicks” back in.

A manual safety is for every moment the weapon is un-holstered and not pointed at something you are willing to kill or destroy. It is for every moment you don’t have a a safe background or clear foreground.

Think of how a safety is used on an AR. It’s the same for a handgun. If so equipped, the safety on any firearm stays engaged until you have an acceptable sight picture on a legitimate target and you have made a conscious decision to fire.

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1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

Keep in mind I carry a Glock AIWB daily with no additional safety features and am comfortable doing so.

That being said, your idea of what protections a manual safety provides is a little off.

A manual safety is not for when the gun is fully seated in the holster.

The most “dangerous” moment for self inflicted damage when carrying a handgun AIWB is the final push to “click” the gun back into the holsters retention.

A manual safety is for the instant the gun “clicks” out of holster retention until the moment it “clicks” back in.

A manual safety is for every moment the weapon is un-holstered and not pointed at something you are willing to kill or destroy. It is for every moment you don’t have a a safe background or clear foreground.

Think of how a safety is used on an AR. It’s the same for a handgun. If so equipped, the safety on any firearm stays engaged until you have an acceptable sight picture on a legitimate target and you have made a conscious decision to fire.

Again, I’m not arguing the benefits or detriments of having a safety on the pistol for “all the other times”. The original comment I was talking about made it seem like having the safety there did something magical once the pistol is already in the holster. 
 

As for the “the final click”; if you cleared your holster prior to re-holstering it’s not a concern. There is never a need to holster as fast as you need to draw. Look down, clear your garment, insert the gun slowly. We all know this. 
 

Saying you need a manual safety to holster safely is like saying; “im going to be negligent when holstering do I need a mechanical device to make sure I won’t blow by balls off”. In which case, maybe just open carry? Don’t carry at all? I dunno. 
 

I don’t think I agree with the AR analogy since it’s never holstered where the trigger can’t be accessed. You sling your rifle, trigger is out in the open to catch on anything. Pistol, in a holster, not so much. 
 

like I said, I’m ONLY talking about the comment which made it seem like a holstered gun is safer with a manual safety. Once it’s in the holster, there is no difference, at least to me. And getting to the holster is just personal responsibility. 

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11 hours ago, MartyZ said:

I just thought of another scenario where a manual safety might be useful. If god forbit the bad guy pulls your gun out of your holster during a scuffle. That manual safety might just save your life.

That train of thought is a fallacy - Same as carrying a gun without a round chambered.  When you need it, the seconds count...

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7 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

That train of thought is a fallacy - Same as carrying a gun without a round chambered.  When you need it, the seconds count...

Not true.

It may not be a common occurrence, but I know for a fact that the engaged safety on a S&W 4013 saved the life of a co-worker when someone took his gun, put it to his chest, pulled the trigger, and got a dead trigger instead of a bang.

Not chambering a round is the stupidest thing you can do when carrying a gun. Engaging a manual safety, if the pistol if so equipped, is appropriate. Carrying an unloaded gun is borderline suicidal. You can’t compare that Israeli garbage technique to using a manual safety appropriately.

The manipulation of most pistol safeties adds zero time to a draw. I also guarantee I can draw and fire my 1911 (scoring an a zone hit) as fast if not faster than you can any striker fired gun.

Tell some of these Tier 1 guys still carrying 1911s or these GM Competition shooters with their 1911 and 2011 pattern guns, all with manual safeties, that they are slow. They will burn you down on a shot timer.

Ultimately, I don’t know if any of this really matters in the grand scheme of things, as my personal CCW choices reflect, but they are choices to be made in the real world and should be considered when choosing a gun you are comfortable betting your life on AND when deciding what skills and TTPs you are going to train.

 

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3 hours ago, Alex V said:

I don’t think I agree with the AR analogy since it’s never holstered where the trigger can’t be accessed. You sling your rifle, trigger is out in the open to catch on anything. Pistol, in a holster, not so much. 

I was talking about when the gun is out of the holster.

You don’t manipulate a safety only when coming from or going to a holster.

There is a lot of time between drawing and holstering and it does 

You don’t automatically disengage a safety on a pistol so equipped just because you completed a draw-stroke. You take off the safety when you have a proper sight picture and you have made a conscious decision to fire. After firing and being satisfied with your intervention, you re-engage the safety, even if you may not want to put the gun away. You may even have to manipulate the safety multiple times - turning it off and on again as you negotiate terrain or cover different threat areas and you don’t have an identified target or a justified threat.

Safety manipulation is always an enabler, and never a detractor.

You know, like an AR.

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8 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

If you don't handle your gun regularly, yes you could fluff the safety. You could also get a bad grip, not have your sights aligned at the end of the draw stroke, all sorts of things. I have even seen a gun get pulled from the holster and tossed across the range as a competitor swept his concealment garment out of the way - his hand never touched the gun and he earned himself a DQ.

I think this has turned into a good discussion.

Ultimately i think a lot comes down to personal preference and practice.

As above, practice is the great equalizer.  I work from home a lot, so i'm constantly dry firing and practicing drawing while on conference calls.

Helps to pass the time and build muscle memory...

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27 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

I think this has turned into a good discussion.

Ultimately i think a lot comes down to personal preference and practice.

As above, practice is the great equalizer.  I work from home a lot, so i'm constantly dry firing and practicing drawing while on conference calls.

Helps to pass the time and build muscle memory...

Just make sure sure the camera is not on, lol. I'm on teams calls all day, half of them with the camera on.

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8 hours ago, MartyZ said:

Just make sure sure the camera is not on, lol. I'm on teams calls all day, half of them with the camera on.

LOL!!!

Yes, my rule is that I have to get up and practice NEXT to my desk, not right in front of it!!

I've seen too many 'embarrassing' YouTube videos where people get caught on camera...

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Deactivating the safety, or forgetting to is the result of insufficient training and practice.

I compete with striker fired guns without manual safeties (Glock, P320, XD/XDm) and guns with manual safeties (1911, BHP, CZ75). I have no issue making the gun go bang when I want it to from the draw.

I often switch back and forth between striker guns and single-action/safety ones. The biggest issue I have is exactly the opposite from "forgetting" to switch off the safety. More often, my thumb automatically searches for the safety to rest on and ride.  

Usually takes a few draws to resolve.

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