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NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

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9 minutes ago, samiam said:

I had a price for the NRA CCW class from two different ranges of $295 (Including live fire) for a two-day class. I had the (possibly mistaken) idea that NRA was dictating the tuition for that class. I was also told to bring 350 - 400 rounds of ammo. Did the prices you were given include ammo, or a discount on same?

I heard the FARS rumor, and thought about waiting for NJ to streamline the process. I also thought of waiting to see if some of what I think to be the more ridiculous requirements might soon become the subject of injunctions, either at the behest of our civilian advocacy organizations, or as a side-effect of the lawsuit current being pursued by LEOSA against NJ regarding requirements imposed on RPOs. I decided that, since I'm over 70, have non-resident CHP in four states already, and never really expected to have a chance to do this in NJ, that I did not want to wait. 

The CCW class was several hours of classroom training with the live fire qualification at the end, which was 50 rounds in total.  The basic pistol safety class was several hours of classroom time with a simple safety live fire check at the end of 20 rounds.  

Now the holster draw class I took was around 300 rounds all in all...

None of this counts the around 1000 rounds of preparation practice over the past couple weeks.   

I wasn't counting the cost of ammo.  

I know I overpaid for the notary, but I didn't want the paperwork sitting my desk another day.  It's a time suck and honestly driving all over the place has a cost of time as it prevents folks from taking care of their other priorities for work or whatever as this all has to be done during business hours.   

I agree there is a lot of ambiguity, which is why more is better if there is a question or concern.  There should be standardized forms for training instructors to train against and sign.  

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We are really overthinking this qualification thing.   It's really simple.  NJAC 13:45-2.4 sets the standard.  There are three ways to qualify. I'll list them out of order...

(1) take a course that's the same as the one police take at the academy - that's not available so we can't do this one.
(3) Pass a test on the state's laws about use of force by an instructor of the police academy or NRA instructor. - there is no such course so we can't do this one.
(2) Shoot a qualifier and submit your scores with a NRA or other instructor.  This is the only one we can use since it's the only one that exists so we will do this one.

And there is no specific required course of fire.  So go shoot something that seems reasonable and submit your scores.  It will be hard for the state to reject any course of fire since they have no idea what's acceptable and what isn't.  Make yours look kind of like everyone else's and the permit approvers will just assume it's the correct one.  If someone does complain, ask for the standard they are using to decide that - there isn't one.

Living in NJ has made us so afraid of making a mistake that we've filled 20 pages of what-ifs on this topic.

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1 hour ago, maintenanceguy said:

We are really overthinking this qualification thing.   It's really simple.  NJAC 13:45-2.4 sets the standard.  There are three ways to qualify. I'll list them out of order...

(1) take a course that's the same as the one police take at the academy - that's not available so we can't do this one.
(3) Pass a test on the state's laws about use of force by an instructor of the police academy or NRA instructor. - there is no such course so we can't do this one.
(2) Shoot a qualifier and submit your scores with a NRA or other instructor.  This is the only one we can use since it's the only one that exists so we will do this one.

And there is no specific required course of fire.  So go shoot something that seems reasonable and submit your scores.  It will be hard for the state to reject any course of fire since they have no idea what's acceptable and what isn't.  Make yours look kind of like everyone else's and the permit approvers will just assume it's the correct one.  If someone does complain, ask for the standard they are using to decide that - there isn't one.

Living in NJ has made us so afraid of making a mistake that we've filled 20 pages of what-ifs on this topic.

A, B, C, D..............ya missed one.

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For me it wasn't about which qual "guarantees" or which one makes me Bond 007. I was looking for cheapest qual at the time that can get me the signed piece of paper. Thats it. Nothing more, nothing less.  When dust settles, pretty sure quals going to be "free'" with some range membership or may be someone will sign off qual for real cheap like $40 bucks.

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19 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

I'm so glad it's going to be free......this is the 2nd of the Bill Of Rights..........wrap your head around it.

Guy, you promised earlier not to keep repeating your stuff in this thread. I get it. I appreciate if  you can leave this thread for sharing experiences with current process and open a new thread where we all can discuss whats really wrong with NJ until cows come home.

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2 hours ago, maintenanceguy said:

We are really overthinking this qualification thing.   It's really simple.  NJAC 13:45-2.4 sets the standard.  There are three ways to qualify. I'll list them out of order...

(1) take a course that's the same as the one police take at the academy - that's not available so we can't do this one.
(3) Pass a test on the state's laws about use of force by an instructor of the police academy or NRA instructor. - there is no such course so we can't do this one.
(2) Shoot a qualifier and submit your scores with a NRA or other instructor.  This is the only one we can use since it's the only one that exists so we will do this one.

And there is no specific required course of fire.  So go shoot something that seems reasonable and submit your scores.  It will be hard for the state to reject any course of fire since they have no idea what's acceptable and what isn't.  Make yours look kind of like everyone else's and the permit approvers will just assume it's the correct one.  If someone does complain, ask for the standard they are using to decide that - there isn't one.

Living in NJ has made us so afraid of making a mistake that we've filled 20 pages of what-ifs on this topic.

 

1 hour ago, xXxplosive said:

A, B, C, D..............ya missed one.

The administrative code lists only 3 and numbers them 1 through 3.  The NJSP Firearms Investigation Guide lists a 4th (a course or test in the safe handling of a handgun) and they use letters A through D instead of numbers.  But that 4th one doesn't show up in the actual law.  I don't know where the NJSP they got that 4th one from. 

I'm avoiding that 4th one since it's not really what the law requires.  But, based on the NJSP's guidance, there will probably be PDs that accept it.  The Superior Court may know the actual law and not do what the NJSP tells them to do so I'm staying away just in case the courts reject applications that use their NRA Basic Handgun Course.

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2 hours ago, samiam said:

I may have misunderstood, were you quoting the price for the NRA CCW class alone, or both Basic Safety and CCW classes combined? I had the NRA Basic Handgun and Safety class back in 2016. 

I agree it's a big black hole for time. I'm retired, but I still have other stuff to get done. A nearby Postnet does both passport photos and notary work, I'm hoping to get both done there without paying an outrageous sum. 

CCW course was around $150 and Basic Pistol Safety was around $160.   Holster draw was around $85 or $90 I think.  The price for the CCW course included the qualification.   

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As a notary I’m not allowed to charge more than $2.50 per act so a maximum of $7.50 per application. Technically I’m a bank notary but I’m not customer facing (we don’t have branches in the US). Some retail bank notaries are particular about what they will notarize and you are correct that some may not notarize firearm applications. It’s up to them. 

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1 minute ago, xXxplosive said:

wow....most notary's I know are friends and they do it free..........the numbers I see being tossed around for NRA Instructor fees, Range time, etc. are horrendous....omo.

Why do you say so?

Don't you pay just as much for your right to Free Speech?

What about how much you paid for your Voting Permit?

 

 

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1 minute ago, Fred2 said:

Why do you say so?

Don't you pay just as much for your right to Free Speech?

What about how much you paid for your Voting Permit?

 

 

don't get me started.....I promised I wouldn't............ya know how I feel about the 2nd.

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1 hour ago, xXxplosive said:

wow....most notary's I know are friends and they do it free..........the numbers I see being tossed around for NRA Instructor fees, Range time, etc. are horrendous....omo.

I will do it for free for my friends who I personally know.

If your friends will do it for you for free, have at it.

For the general public I do not offer free services. Not for nothing, it does cost money to get the commission, stamp, raised seal, logbook and my time. The miniscule, state mandated fees can recover that if I do maybe 20 or so. I think I've done about a dozen firearm related ones. Still haven't recovered my cost.

Therefore it is fair to ask for the small, state limited payment. 

Of course if you want to wait for constitutional carry, that is YOUR choice. 

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"Of course if you want to wait for constitutional carry, that is YOUR choice". ......I'm not takin' the bait.....I promised.

 

So a friend who just returned from a range tells me he questioned about the Qual. tests offered at the various ranges without a standard....Instructor tells him it's up to the individual range and the NJSP are deferring to the ranges......IMO, this should be interesting when the first incident goes to court and the prosecutor starts questioning about qualifications.......Oh yeah......omo.

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I wonder how long it’ll take until the cost of exercising our 2nd Amendment right is challenged in court for creating a financial hardship. Essentially limiting the right to only those of financial means is clearly unconstitutional. I suppose the State is off the hook for now since they haven’t officially supported the avenue of attaining a NJ CCW, but it’s something that I hope attorneys are planning to keep an eye on.
 

What some of these ranges are pricing their quals at is prohibitive. GFH includes the photos and notary which, in my humble opinion, is classy and should be provided by more places.

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22 hours ago, maintenanceguy said:

 

The administrative code lists only 3 and numbers them 1 through 3.  The NJSP Firearms Investigation Guide lists a 4th (a course or test in the safe handling of a handgun) and they use letters A through D instead of numbers.  But that 4th one doesn't show up in the actual law.  I don't know where the NJSP they got that 4th one from. 

I'm avoiding that 4th one since it's not really what the law requires.  But, based on the NJSP's guidance, there will probably be PDs that accept it.  The Superior Court may know the actual law and not do what the NJSP tells them to do so I'm staying away just in case the courts reject applications that use their NRA Basic Handgun Course.

 

1 hour ago, samiam said:

The Adminstrative Code is NOT the "actual law". The "actual law" is Statute 2C:38-4 in the NJ Code of Criminal Justice.

2021 New Jersey Revised Statutes Title 2C - The New Jersey Code of Criminal Justice Section 2C:58-4 - Permits to carry handguns.

The administrative code is treated by the courts as the law.  If there is a conflict between the statute and administrative code, the statutes rule.  But, in the absence of a conflict, the courts, the police, and the agencies and departments consider it to be the law.  If everyone treats it as the law, it's the law.

I believe the only valid use of the administrative code is for the various agencies to explain how they will be complying with the statue but it's not used that way and the courts allow it.

So, I don't like it either but the administrative code is the law. 

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1 hour ago, JibbaJabba said:

I wonder how long it’ll take until the cost of exercising our 2nd Amendment right is challenged in court for creating a financial hardship. Essentially limiting the right to only those of financial means is clearly unconstitutional. I suppose the State is off the hook for now since they haven’t officially supported the avenue of attaining a NJ CCW, but it’s something that I hope attorneys are planning to keep an eye on.
 

What some of these ranges are pricing their quals at is prohibitive. GFH includes the photos and notary which, in my humble opinion, is classy and should be provided by more places.

There was a NY case challenging the fees some years ago. I believe cert was denied 

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Can applicants for concealed carry please state what happened to your application?  Were you approved for concealed carry or denied?  If denied, what was the reason why denied?  And am I correct no formal training certificate required?  Reason for wanting actual experiences is b/c too much conflicts on the requirements.  Thanks

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9 minutes ago, Frank Thomas said:

Can applicants for concealed carry please state what happened to your application?  Were you approved for concealed carry or denied?  If denied, what was the reason why denied?  And am I correct no formal training certificate required?  Reason for wanting actual experiences is b/c too much conflicts on the requirements.  Thanks

:)

welcome_to_the_jc27bb.0.jpg

 

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On 7/12/2022 at 4:21 PM, always_an_eagle said:

It was a busy day yesterday so I didn't have any time to post here but, yesterday on July 11st 10 AM, I became the second person in Watchung Boro to submit their CCW packet after the Supreme Court ruling. I made an appointment to come in before hand with the Sgt. in charged of firearm applicants before hand. The appointment was approximatly 15 minutes long, where we gone over each document to make sure it was all right. He went over my notorized letter of proof of ownership of the handguns I qualified with the serial numbers on the RTSP qualification certificate serial numbers. I also submitted a certificate of the RTSP intro to ccw 2 hour course of proof that I can safely handle firearms and know how they operate also. The Sgt. went over the process explaining that the CCW process on the police's end is the same as an FID card/ pistol permit and once the Chief of police approves it (I apply twice a year for 6 pistol permits since December 2019, no issues with getting approved) it will go to the Suprior Court in Somerset County. He said that since Watchung is a smaller town compared to Bridgewater, Franklin or Hillsborogh that he should be able to process the CCW applications at a faster rate compared to the rest of the county but there is still a learning curve at this and that there will still be alot of applicants applying. Also that the Superior Court and the Somerset County Prosecutors Office are still working on the details on processing the influex of applicants for the county. But he said he had enough information to get started on my application which is good!

I was issued a case number by Watchung Police which is similar to what I see with their criminal complants, its not the case number that has been going around like on RTSP website with applicant's last name and date of applicantion. Its an unique number that is issued inhouse by your agency. I already made the appointment with Identigo before I submitted my application so I was able to call and redo the case number, kept the same time and location for my application this Saturday.

Overall, with everything totalled up with the application to obtain a NJ CCW, not counting the price of ammuniton like critical defense, holsters nor firearms its quite a bit:

  • $50 money order to the Treasury

  • $185 for qualifications for two guns at RTSP

  • $99 intro to CCW at RTSP

  • $16 for the 1.5 X 1.5 inch photos at CVS

  • $96 for Identigo fingerprinting in Staten Island

Total is $446. My boss is a notary so he was able to notarize my documents for the CCW.

I wanted to apply as soon as possible once the Supreme Court got rid of justifiable need. I know friends who want to apply but want to wait but I figure why wait now? I waited long enough and the state legislators are currently in summer recess now, once get back from their break they could be pulling a New York on us and make it harder for us.

 

I posted this on reddit on r/NJguns but I finally submitted everything!

Damn. My permit cost $20 and they only take cash:) Good luck!!

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