NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[Jim Jones 108]

15 minutes ago, Chriss84 said:

Any idea how the court contacts you? I’m in a pickle where the email address I used may not be accessible in the coming weeks. I took it as work email since it was next to the business information…of all times I may be switching companies. Hoping they are using phone or mail to send these court dates out.

Ugh! The lawyer at Evan Nappen’s office said it was likely you would find out via email.  They also said some PDs may send it to you digital and hard copies.

[Porkbone 0]

Just now, Jim Jones said:

Ugh! The lawyer at Evan Nappen’s office said it was likely you would find out via email.  They also said some PDs may send it to you digital and hard copies.

Ha! Lovely. I must have missed that podcast or blog post thanks for the info. Was that the approval or the court date if you recall?

 Guess I’m stopping by local PD in the morning to inquire about updating the email field if my app hasn’t been sent off to the court although it may have been. 
 

Alternatively was thinking about calling the superior court clerk office each Wednesday to see if my name was on the schedule yet for coming weeks. 
 

 

[NorthernYankee 94]

44 minutes ago, Jim Jones said:

Today is day 21 for me since completing all steps of the application. Day 8 of it being sent to the Superior court. I check my email 400x a day and answer all spam calls hoping it is my approval. This is going to be a very long 60 days!  Let’s go Trump 2024!

I am not sure that I agree with that interpretation of the statute but I hope I am wrong.

 

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2019/title-2c/section-2c-58-4/

 

Subsection c states

 

"If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing."

 

So to me that is just for the LPD approval because subsection refers to the superior courts duty as "issuance of the permit"

 

So to me the way it's written they could sit on it and are not held to any time limit. Again I hope that I am wrong.

 

 

 

 

[Jim Jones 108]

13 minutes ago, Chriss84 said:

Ha! Lovely. I must have missed that podcast or blog post thanks for the info. Was that the approval or the court date if you recall?

 Guess I’m stopping by local PD in the morning to inquire about updating the email field if my app hasn’t been sent off to the court although it may have been. 
 

Alternatively was thinking about calling the superior court clerk office each Wednesday to see if my name was on the schedule yet for coming weeks. 
 

 

It was neither. I have us lawshield and they connected me with David at evan’s office. He was very helpful.  They told me not to call the superior court because I was planning on doing the same. He was adamant not to bother the court and stressed to be patient. My local PD emailed me when I was approved and they forwarded it to the courts. Local pd has been awesome!  Supposedly if you get a court date that is a bad thing. It means you will most likely be declined. David also told me to date nobody has been declined by the court, all declined have been by local pd and it was mostly due to the course people have taken.  I hope this helps.

Llet’s go Trump!

1 minute ago, NorthernYankee said:

I am not sure that I agree with that interpretation of the statute but I hope I am wrong.

 

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2019/title-2c/section-2c-58-4/

 

Subsection c states

 

"If the application is not approved by the chief police officer or the superintendent within 60 days of filing, it shall be deemed to have been approved, unless the applicant agrees to an extension of time in writing."

 

So to me that is just for the LPD approval because subsection refers to the superior courts duty as "issuance of the permit"

 

So to me the way it's written they could sit on it and are not held to any time limit. Again I hope that I am wrong.

 

 

 

 

That was my interpretation as well. I asked David at Evan Nappen’s office and he stressed the 60 days includes the superior court part. The court can’t sit on them indefinitely.

[NorthernYankee 94]

2 minutes ago, Jim Jones said:

That was my interpretation as well. I asked David at Evan Nappen’s office and he stressed the 60 days includes the superior court part. The court can’t sit on them indefinitely.

I definitely hope that they are right.

[Porkbone 0]

1 minute ago, Jim Jones said:

It was neither. I have us lawshield and they connected me with David at evan’s office. He was very helpful.  They told me not to call the superior court because I was planning on doing the same. He was adamant not to bother the court and stressed to be patient. My local PD emailed me when I was approved and they forwarded it to the courts. Local pd has been awesome!  Supposedly if you get a court date that is a bad thing. It means you will most likely be declined. David also told me to date nobody has been declined by the court, all declined have been by local pd and it was mostly due to the course people have taken.  I hope this helps.

Llet’s go Trump!

That’s great to hear. I don’t anticipate a court date then since all else is in order. My local PD are great people and have been extremely helpful in this process. Suppose based on the info you gathered, even if the email bounces, I could get a copy from my local PD. 

[Jim Jones 108]

3 minutes ago, NorthernYankee said:

I definitely hope that they are right.

That’s exactly what I said to him. He told me he is right and I was wrong lol he wasn’t shy.

[CJack 138]

Anyone interested in timelines in Court should read this attachment.  Lot of good stuff in this NJ Court Directive, including directive NOT to faround with delays at prosecutors office.

Or search for DIRECTIVE #06-19

 

n190521f.pdf

[kc17 622]

8 hours ago, Jim Jones said:

....... David also told me to date nobody has been declined by the court, all declined have been by local pd and it was mostly due to the course people have taken.....

 

I'd be more interested to know what percentage the courts have approved. I've read some courts are sitting on applications awaiting guidance on further tactics to deny. 

 

8 hours ago, Chriss84 said:

Any idea how the court contacts you? I’m in a pickle where the email address I used may not be accessible in the coming weeks. I took it as work email since it was next to the business information…of all times I may be switching companies. Hoping they are using phone or mail to send these court dates out.

Obviously I have no idea how things work at your company, but at mine, when an employee leaves (for whatever reason) emails are fwd to the manager. This way customers still get a response from the company. I know this for a fact, because my manager complains about people using work addresses for personal use (mostly mailing lists, shopping, stuff like that) then he gets all the spam when they leave. I never understood why anyone would want to do any type of personal business on a company owned asset or company controlled communication method. Same with people that use a company owned and managed cell phone for personal use. No thanks.  

If you are leaving on good terms with your company and manager, it might not be as big of a deal. Of course, your manager would know, if they don't already. 

[Porkbone 0]

8 minutes ago, kc17 said:

 

I'd be more interested to know what percentage the courts have approved. I've read some courts are sitting on applications awaiting guidance on further tactics to deny. 

 

Obviously I have no idea how things work at your company, but at mine, when an employee leaves (for whatever reason) emails are fwd to the manager. This way customers still get a response from the company. I know this for a fact, because my manager complains about people using work addresses for personal use (mostly mailing lists, shopping, stuff like that) then he gets all the spam when they leave. I never understood why anyone would want to do any type of personal business on a company owned asset or company controlled communication method. Same with people that use a company owned and managed cell phone for personal use. No thanks.  

If you are leaving on good terms with your company and manager, it might not be as big of a deal. Of course, your manager would know, if they don't already. 

I hear you and agree. I took the email to be business email where it was positioned on the application near business phone/phone. 

[kc17 622]

8 minutes ago, Chriss84 said:

I hear you and agree. I took the email to be business email where it was positioned on the application near business phone/phone. 

I initially thought the same. But since it did not specifically say business and there was not another location for personal, I choose to put personal there. 

My later comments were more generalized. 

Best of luck, hope it works out for you. 

[Jim Jones 108]

2 hours ago, CJack said:

Anyone interested in timelines in Court should read this attachment.  Lot of good stuff in this NJ Court Directive, including directive NOT to faround with delays at prosecutors office.

Or search for DIRECTIVE #06-19

 

n190521f.pdf 971.68 kB · 24 downloads

Probably the most helpful piece of information I have received in this forum! Thank you! It also contradicts what Evan Nappen’s office told me, but I would have to believe this is more accurate.  Thank you for posting!

[Jim Jones 108]

2 hours ago, Chriss84 said:

I hear you and agree. I took the email to be business email where it was positioned on the application near business phone/phone. 

I made the exact same mistake! My company is so anti-2A I didn’t want them emailing there, but it is too late they already did.

[CJack 138]

23 minutes ago, Jim Jones said:

Probably the most helpful piece of information I have received in this forum! Thank you! It also contradicts what Evan Nappen’s office told me, but I would have to believe this is more accurate.  Thank you for posting!

Pretty sure his office is very well aware of this document. However, there is often discrepancy between what official documents say and how business is conducted in practice. So may be Nappan office is advising based on their experience on the ground.

 

[CapGuns&SnapsKid 33]

Someone in another NJ gun group said his CCW packet was sent back because in 89' he was driving on an suspended license and had to do 3x days of community service. The detective said he should have checked YES to question 17 (disorderly persons). So now he has to check yes and resend it, he contacted his lawyer and even the lawyer said that should not matter since it is a motor vehicle issue. Mind you he already has an FID card and purchased many firearms before. I told him to forward it to the ANJRCP Strikeforce.  

[CJack 138]

5 minutes ago, CapGuns&SnapsKid said:

Someone in another NJ gun group said his CCW packet was sent back because in 89' he was driving on an suspended license and had to do 3x days of community service. The detective said he should have checked YES to question 17 (disorderly persons). So now he has to check yes and resend it, he contacted his lawyer and even the lawyer said that should not matter since it is a motor vehicle issue. Mind you he already has an FID card and purchased many firearms before. I told him to forward it to the ANJRCP Strikeforce.  

Yeah, they are pulling all sorts of silly sh*t.  One of the guys involved in lawsuits (Chessman ? JFactor? ) claimed they dug up his "unapaid dog license fee" issue and made him pay before denying the application ..Lol. 

Bergen County Prosecutors Office sent a letter emphasizing "a thorough investigation in lieu of removed justifiable need" multiple times.  I wonder if they apply same level of scrutiny to Govt employees with gunz.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

4 minutes ago, CJack said:

I wonder if they apply same level of scrutiny to Govt employees with gunz.

We all know the answer to that one.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

31 minutes ago, CapGuns&SnapsKid said:

Someone in another NJ gun group said his CCW packet was sent back because in 89' he was driving on an suspended license and had to do 3x days of community service. The detective said he should have checked YES to question 17 (disorderly persons). So now he has to check yes and resend it, he contacted his lawyer and even the lawyer said that should not matter since it is a motor vehicle issue. Mind you he already has an FID card and purchased many firearms before. I told him to forward it to the ANJRCP Strikeforce.  

If he was given a court sentence, even for just 3 days of community service, that would indicate a conviction of a disorderly persons. 

I believe driving on a suspended license is a 4th degree crime, depending on the circumstances.

I'm not surprised they are being more stringent with carry permits. NJ law is more specific with prohibited persons from owning a firearm, he wouldn't be disqualified from owning a firearm as he's not considered a prohibited person. 

 

The dog license shit is rediculous though. 

[Mr.G 8]

Spin off-topic and question. Add more qualified handguns to your carry permit.  Possible (quickly)?

[CJack 138]

8 minutes ago, Mr.G said:

Spin off-topic and question. Add more qualified handguns to your carry permit.  Possible (quickly)?

did you already apply for the carry permit in Bergen County ? And where is that at ?  On your question, I am told that process may vary from County to County as it is the Judge that is putting those "restrictions" on the actual carry permit.   I have read about a direct account (probably here or on FB) of a carry permit holder reaching out to County Court to submit the additional quals and getting them them added to the permit.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

10 minutes ago, Mr.G said:

Spin off-topic and question. Add more qualified handguns to your carry permit.  Possible (quickly)?

Supposedly yes - once you have the PTC all they have to do is amend the restrictions to add on additional handguns.

[NorthernYankee 94]

Does anyone know what office the permits go through for your specific county?  I had reached out to the Gloucester County Surrogate Court Judge & NJ State Superior Court Deputy Clerk but they said that don't do the CCW permits so I am trying to figure out what office it goes through.

[Mr.G 8]

3 minutes ago, CJack said:

did you already apply for the carry permit in Bergen County ? And where is that at ?  On your question, I am told that process may vary from County to County as it is the Judge that is putting those "restrictions" on the actual carry permit.   I have read about a direct account (probably here or on FB) of a carry permit holder reaching out to County Court to submit the additional quals and getting them them added to the permit.

In the process of submitting..  But thinking one more step ahead. I know it's going to take a while, but my mind spins forward, always.

[CJack 138]

1 minute ago, NorthernYankee said:

Does anyone know what office the permits go through for your specific county?  I had reached out to the Gloucester County Surrogate Court Judge & NJ State Superior Court Deputy Clerk but they said that don't do the CCW permits so I am trying to figure out what office it goes through.

Call your County Superior Court main number and tell them you are trying to find out status of your Handgun Carry Permit. They shuld be able to tell you which specific Judge handles those. Typically its Criminal or Law Division.

[kc17 622]

28 minutes ago, Mr.G said:

Spin off-topic and question. Add more qualified handguns to your carry permit.  Possible (quickly)?

2C:58-4. Permits to carry handguns
a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by section 2C:39-5e. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit.

Typical "I am not a lawyer".

As per the current Statute, this whole thing of being able to only carry the gun you qualify with is not correct. As of right now, I only own one gun I would want to carry. I own others that I would carry if my primary were not available for some reason. Since I have not qualified yet, I've been debating taking the other(s) with me. That would require an additional cost and time. I have not decided if I'm going to or not yet. 

[NorthernYankee 94]

1 minute ago, kc17 said:

2C:58-4. Permits to carry handguns
a. Scope and duration of authority. Any person who holds a valid permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to this section shall be authorized to carry a handgun in all parts of this State, except as prohibited by section 2C:39-5e. One permit shall be sufficient for all handguns owned by the holder thereof, but the permit shall apply only to a handgun carried by the actual and legal holder of the permit.

Typical "I am not a lawyer".

As per the current Statute, this whole thing of being able to only carry the gun you qualify with is not correct. As of right now, I only own one gun I would want to carry. I own others that I would carry if my primary were not available for some reason. Since I have not qualified yet, I've been debating taking the other(s) with me. That would require an additional cost and time. I have not decided if I'm going to or not yet. 

Its going to come down to if they issue restricted permits where your firearms are listed on the permit.  My guess is that we we all get restricted permits.

[kc17 622]

2 minutes ago, NorthernYankee said:

Its going to come down to if they issue restricted permits where your firearms are listed on the permit.  My guess is that we we all get restricted permits.

I could see them doing that in the future. But the way I (a layman) read and understand the current Statute, there is no provision for that. Just like it does not state the method of carry, open or concealed. Both items would require a bill amending the Statute, based on my understanding.  

[NorthernYankee 94]

2 minutes ago, kc17 said:

I could see them doing that in the future. But the way I (a layman) read and understand the current Statute, there is no provision for that. Just like it does not state the method of carry, open or concealed. Both items would require a bill amending the Statute, based on my understanding.  

https://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

 

13:54-2.7 Issuance of a permit to carry a handgun

(a) Upon being satisfied of the sufficiency of the application and the fulfillment of the provisions of Chapter 58, Lawsof 1979, the judge shall issue a permit.

(b) The court may, at its discretion, issue a limited type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types ofhandguns he or she may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried.

[kc17 622]

3 minutes ago, NorthernYankee said:

https://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

 

13:54-2.7 Issuance of a permit to carry a handgun

(a) Upon being satisfied of the sufficiency of the application and the fulfillment of the provisions of Chapter 58, Lawsof 1979, the judge shall issue a permit.

(b) The court may, at its discretion, issue a limited type permit which would restrict the applicant as to the types ofhandguns he or she may carry and where and for what purposes such handguns may be carried.

Playing devil's advocate here, not attacking you or your findings. I know intent can be mistaken.

First, so what should legally happen when two Statutes contradict each other? I'm sure the Prosecutor would simply use the one against the gun owner. 

Second, that says "type of handguns", it does not specify the exact handgun. So the argument could be made any compact or any sub-compact or any semi-auto even. What about two handguns of the same make & model? 

In my case, I first purchased a SIG P365, then a P365XL, which I shoot much better. Since the FCU is the serialized component, I could easily convert the 365 into an XL and it would have the same serial number. So I'm thinking of qualifying with both of them. 

[CJack 138]

10 minutes ago, kc17 said:

Playing devil's advocate here, not attacking you or your findings. I know intent can be mistaken.

First, so what should legally happen when two Statutes contradict each other? I'm sure the Prosecutor would simply use the one against the gun owner. 

Second, that says "type of handguns", it does not specify the exact handgun. So the argument could be made any compact or any sub-compact or any semi-auto even. What about two handguns of the same make & model? 

In my case, I first purchased a SIG P365, then a P365XL, which I shoot much better. Since the FCU is the serialized component, I could easily convert the 365 into an XL and it would have the same serial number. So I'm thinking of qualifying with both of them. 

NJ has given Courts lot of discretion in this manner. Until such a point where either Courts remove themselves out of this process, law changes or lawsuits succeed, its best to qualify with the handguns you want to carry.