NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[exfed2002 4]

12 hours ago, Lostboy said:

. You can't use a firearm to defend property in NJ anyway. 

You can't do it anywhere.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

9 minutes ago, exfed2002 said:

You can't do it anywhere.

You can in free America.  Texas for example.

[Bushmaster1313 61]

51 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

You can in free America.  Texas for example.

I read that in some states from the outside you can shoot someone breaking into your house and in Texas you can shoot a burglar breaking into your neighbor’s house. 
^^^ I do not know if the above is true. 

[RadioGunner 218]

1 minute ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

I read that in some states from the outside you can shoot someone breaking into your house and in Texas you can shoot a burglar breaking into your neighbor’s house. 
^^^ I do not know if the above is true. 

Wouldn’t surprise me as Texas allows defense of mere property with firearms. 

[GlockityGlockGlock 21]

any updates from sussex county?

 

@RadioGunner?

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

1 hour ago, Krdshrk said:

You can in free America.  Texas for example.

 

25 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

Wouldn’t surprise me as Texas allows defense of mere property with firearms. 

IIRC, it is only after dark.

[Kdin1 11]

Just remember in TAX Jersey the victim has NO rights and ALL rights go to the person doing the crime.

[YankeeSC 1,204]

4 hours ago, Combat Auto said:

but if thug is pointing a gun at you

If you're waiting for them to point it at you, you've waited too long to act.

[Lostboy 105]

16 minutes ago, YankeeSC said:

If you're waiting for them to point it at you, you've waited too long to act.

Which goes right along with the loading outside of your car in a parking lot. The great state of grey areas, where you just never know what crime you may be committing. 

[Combat Auto 174]

19 minutes ago, YankeeSC said:

If you're waiting for them to point it at you, you've waited too long to act.

But if you point a gun at someone just because he is walking by your car you might be going jail...This is not like Hollywood, you better be sure you can prove a legitimate SD threat before you whip it out. In the moves it is usually an obvious decision, in real life not so much...A smart thug will wait till you are stuck in traffic and not pull his gun out until he is right next to you. Or it may turn out he had no gun and was just crossing the street...You better know what you are doing out there.

[Lostboy 105]

14 hours ago, 45Doll said:

When I am in my car and someone approaches with a gun drawn...

They don't intend to shoot my car. They don't intend to shoot my money. They intend to shoot me.

So I have every right to preempt them.

Agreed, but they have to be pointing a gun or knife at you. It will still be on you to prove it. This woman that was abducted and murdered while jogging in Tennessee, I have to wonder if that happened here and she shot that piece of shit how it would have gone down. He was technically unarmed? By the time he grabbed her she would have had to draw and fire her weapon. Then she has to prove that he intended to abduct her. The whole "he was a good boy" argument starts to come out from the shitty family. I'm sure he has some mother reminiscent of Bonnie Watson Coleman. Idk the answer, I'm just thinking about it all. 

[Combat Auto 174]

In NJ anyway, you will not do well with deploying your gun in a pre-emptive manner because you "think" someone is a thug...You better know so based on what he is doing...Walking by your car door, walking on you property without making any additional threat (right or wrong) doesn't qualify. Not in nj.

[Lostboy 105]

7 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

But if you point a gun at someone just because he is walking by your car you might be going jail...This is not like Hollywood, you better be sure you can prove a legitimate SD threat before you whip it out. In the moves it is usually an obvious decision, in real life not so much...A smart thug will wait till you are stuck in traffic and not pull his gun out until he is right next to you. Or it may turn out he had no gun and was just crossing the street...You better know what you are doing out there.

Exactly my point below. 

[Combat Auto 174]

Smart thugs and even most of the stupid ones don't "open"-carry (gun/knife/Billy-stick, etc.), would be nice but they don't want to make it too easy for their victims.

This goes full circle back to the debate of what distance does Granny need to qualify for her pistol permit...25 yards? One would have to think long and hard of where civilians can prove a deadly threat at that distance. Mass shooter, sure, but statistically that is so rare. Some other very rare event, sure...But it is usually right in you face when thug jumps you. Hard statistics show something like 20 feet and under cover 95% (or so) of non cop SD incidents. If you have a 20 feet "warning" consider yourself lucky, most are a lot closer than that.

Remember distance is your friend in SD, for a thug who is after you, it is just the opposite, they want to be able to smell your breath if they can before they make their move/show their evil intentions.

[Rob0115 1,105]

17 hours ago, MrAceJD said:

Why does it sound like Monmouth County is attempting to set the high bar on restrictions (assuming all this is accurate)?   Shouldn't the goal be consistency across the State?  Afterall, it's a STATE permit...

Where are you hearing or reading this?

[CMJeepster 2,777]

3 minutes ago, Rob0115 said:

Where are you hearing or reading this?

Earlier in this thread.  I believe that it turned out to be false, but someone here will confirm it once their friend gets theirs soon.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Grima Squeakersen 482]

***DELETED***

[10X 3,296]

There has been a bit of discussion of the required  'passport photos' in this thread.   I generated my own, as have a few others.

Get a good, clear picture against a light-colored featureless background.  Follow all of the other guidelines for a passport photo; don't smile, no hat, etc.

I edited mine into a square format right in the photo app.  I also lightened the background a little, but if you stand in front of a light enough wall to begin with, that isn't necessary.  Leave enough background around you to allow for further cropping, and be sure to save high-resolution images at each step.

I used Preview to edit the size to 1.5" square; GraphicConverter or most any other image editor will also work, either by letting you specify the size, or by putting rulers on screen so you can drag to the size you want.   This may not have been a necessary step.

I couldn't find any way to use the Walmart photo app to print one or more 1.5" images on a larger print, but if you use the Walgreens photo app, and select a collage print, 4" x 4" size, and select the collage layout that allows you to insert 4 same-size photos on the same print, it works great.   When I picked up the print, each of the four images was 1.8" square, so I probably could have used the larger, square photos  (skipping the edit to 1.5" sq) and they would have scaled them down to that same size.  Simple enough to cut them down to 1.5" when cutting them from the collage print.

My all-in cost for four 1.5" passport photos?   53 cents.

 

 

 

[Lucky Lefty 112]

43 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

Earlier in this thread.  I believe that it turned out to be false, but someone here will confirm it once their friend gets theirs soon.

Nothing has turned out to be false.

On Sunday, Evan Nappen put out his latest podcast episode talking about the order in question here.

No mention of it being a work permit, he acknowledged the validity of the orders that we have seen, and he did not mention anything specifically that was being done but did say it's is in the works to be challenged.

So far we have seen the order come from ocean and monmouth County, while other counties continue to issue completely unrestricted permits.

My educated guess/specualtion/assumption is that monmouth and ocean county have a personal issue with Daniel Francisco, and in an attempt to render his permit useless without blatantly displaying discrimination against him, they pulled this order out of nowhere and are applying it to everyone in ocean/monmouth going forward.

There also now seems to be a delay in any other permits that have been issued from these 2 counties in the past 2 weeks. It seemed they were beginning to churn them out, then this order popped up, and now I haven't heard anything about anyone else receiving their permit.

Perhaps this could be related to the powers that be possiblybtaking a weeks vacation for labor day? Or could there be some commotion in the background with courts and pds trying to CYA and figure out how keep all of their hoops on fire for us.

 

[Spdracr 25]

7 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

Nothing has turned out to be false.

On Sunday, Evan Nappen put out his latest podcast episode talking about the order in question here.

No mention of it being a work permit, he acknowledged the validity of the orders that we have seen, and he did not mention anything specifically that was being done but did say it's is in the works to be challenged.

So far we have seen the order come from ocean and monmouth County, while other counties continue to issue completely unrestricted permits.

My educated guess/specualtion/assumption is that monmouth and ocean county have a personal issue with Daniel Francisco, and in an attempt to render his permit useless without blatantly displaying discrimination against him, they pulled this order out of nowhere and are applying it to everyone in ocean/monmouth going forward.

There also now seems to be a delay in any other permits that have been issued from these 2 counties in the past 2 weeks. It seemed they were beginning to churn them out, then this order popped up, and now I haven't heard anything about anyone else receiving their permit.

Perhaps this could be related to the powers that be possiblybtaking a weeks vacation for labor day? Or could there be some commotion in the background with courts and pds trying to CYA and figure out how keep all of their hoops on fire for us.

 

Daniel is in monmouth County. The ocean county is not associated with him. It was believed to be someone else but not sure who. 

[exfed2002 4]

4 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

You can in free America.  Texas for example.

You better read the intricacies of that TX law before you end up in jail.

[Lucky Lefty 112]

4 minutes ago, Spdracr said:

Daniel is in monmouth County. The ocean county is not associated with him. It was believed to be someone else but not sure who. 

Which is why I said monmouth and ocean when I mentioned Daniel Francisco. The person asking the original question appeared to not be aware this was happening within both counties, not ocean OR monmouth.

Hard to say they are not associated when the order appeared simultaneously when Francisco received his permit.

This is also why l prefaced that blurb with "my educated guess/speculation/assumption..."

After several permits across the state are issued without this order, and then at the same exact time, permits from monmouth and ocean are issued with exact identical orders, while other counties remain unrestricted, its hard to think they are not related in some capacity. Francisco himself may have nothing to do with ocean, but the officials making the decisions certainly appear to be involved with and/or influencing the decision made in those 2 counties.

[Spdracr 25]

13 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

Which is why I said monmouth and ocean when I mentioned Daniel Francisco. The person asking the original question appeared to not be aware this was happening within both counties, not ocean OR monmouth.

Hard to say they are not associated when the order appeared simultaneously when Francisco received his permit.

This is also why l prefaced that blurb with "my educated guess/speculation/assumption..."

After several permits across the state are issued without this order, and then at the same exact time, permits from monmouth and ocean are issued with exact identical orders, while other counties remain unrestricted, its hard to think they are not related in some capacity. Francisco himself may have nothing to do with ocean, but the officials making the decisions certainly appear to be involved with and/or influencing the decision made in those 2 counties.

Daniel's court order is four pages. The other order seemed to be one page with the judge's signature on the first page and no indication of subsequent pages 

[Combat Auto 174]

24 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

Nothing has turned out to be false.

On Sunday, Evan Nappen put out his latest podcast episode talking about the order in question here.

No mention of it being a work permit, he acknowledged the validity of the orders that we have seen, and he did not mention anything specifically that was being done but did say it's is in the works to be challenged.

So far we have seen the order come from ocean and monmouth County, while other counties continue to issue completely unrestricted permits.

My educated guess/specualtion/assumption is that monmouth and ocean county have a personal issue with Daniel Francisco, and in an attempt to render his permit useless without blatantly displaying discrimination against him, they pulled this order out of nowhere and are applying it to everyone in ocean/monmouth going forward.

There also now seems to be a delay in any other permits that have been issued from these 2 counties in the past 2 weeks. It seemed they were beginning to churn them out, then this order popped up, and now I haven't heard anything about anyone else receiving their permit.

Perhaps this could be related to the powers that be possiblybtaking a weeks vacation for labor day? Or could there be some commotion in the background with courts and pds trying to CYA and figure out how keep all of their hoops on fire for us.

 

Great post meaning the job you did in encapsulation and postulation, not what they are doing to us...

What did Mr. Francisco do to piss these 2 counties off?

[Spdracr 25]

2 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

Great post meaning the job you did in encapsulation and postulation, not what they are doing to us...

What did Mr. Francisco do to piss these 2 counties off?

Why are lumping both counties with Daniel and his permit. He's from monmouth County. Not ocean county. 

He had been denied his permit when he applied back in 2020ish and he appealed it twice I think. So it's an assumption that they restricted him out of spit after bruen. 

[Lucky Lefty 112]

1 minute ago, Spdracr said:

Daniel's court order is for pages. The other order seemed to be one page with the judge's signature on the first page and no indication of subsequent pages 

Which shows that the court is going above and beyond against Daniel in issuing his permit.

Regardless of how many pages they gave him, what's important to take away is the most important page, which lists the restrictions placed upon his permit, is literally identical to the order of restrictions handed out in ocean county. Which were issued at the same exact time.

 

 

[Spdracr 25]

Just now, Lucky Lefty said:

Which shows that the court is going above and beyond against Daniel in issuing his permit.

Regardless of how many pages they gave him, what's important to take away is the most important page, which lists the restrictions placed upon his permit, is literally identical to the order of restrictions handed out in ocean county. Which were issued at the same exact time.

 

 

How do you know its identical? He never showed a picture of it, did he? He read it in summation while he talked about it. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

35 minutes ago, 10X said:

There has been a bit of discussion of the required  'passport photos' in this thread.   I generated my own, as have a few others.

Get a good, clear picture against a light-colored featureless background.  Follow all of the other guidelines for a passport photo; don't smile, no hat, etc.

I edited mine into a square format right in the photo app.  I also lightened the background a little, but if you stand in front of a light enough wall to begin with, that isn't necessary.  Leave enough background around you to allow for further cropping, and be sure to save high-resolution images at each step.

I used Preview to edit the size to 1.5" square; GraphicConverter or most any other image editor will also work, either by letting you specify the size, or by putting rulers on screen so you can drag to the size you want.   This may not have been a necessary step.

I couldn't find any way to use the Walmart photo app to print one or more 1.5" images on a larger print, but if you use the Walgreens photo app, and select a collage print, 4" x 4" size, and select the collage layout that allows you to insert 4 same-size photos on the same print, it works great.   When I picked up the print, each of the four images was 1.8" square, so I probably could have used the larger, square photos  (skipping the edit to 1.5" sq) and they would have scaled them down to that same size.  Simple enough to cut them down to 1.5" when cutting them from the collage print.

My all-in cost for four 1.5" passport photos?   53 cents.

 

 

 

You can resize the photo in a lot of apps, I found the easiest was to take a good picture and resize it to 144pixels squared... thats 1.5 inches and worked great. 

[Lucky Lefty 112]

Just now, Spdracr said:

How do you know its identical? He never showed a picture of it, did he? He read it in summation while he talked about it. 

He read the entire document and it was verbatim the document we have seen signed by the ocean county judge