NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[Spdracr 25]

4 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

He read the entire document and it was verbatim the document we have seen signed by the ocean county judge

I didn't know his permit was signed by the ocean county Judge. Is that confirmed? 

 

Ocean and monmouth County Vicinage are separate. Judge Rochelle Gizinski is the one who signed that ocean county permit with restrictions. 

There is no confirmation Ocean County signed his permit. 

Gloucester/salem/Cumberland counties has one judge processing applications. 

[Combat Auto 174]

12 minutes ago, Spdracr said:

Why are lumping both counties with Daniel and his permit. He's from monmouth County. Not ocean county. 

He had been denied his permit when he applied back in 2020ish and he appealed it twice I think. So it's an assumption that they restricted him out of spit after bruen. 

Thanks for the info...I find the spite angle kinda incredulous personally now that the SC has ruled on this. And especially if they take their spite and share it with every wana-be permit holder in Monmouth...Would any rational person with a cushy judge seat take a risk to their job as such...And indeed the spite angle doesn't explain Ocean as you imply.

If it is applied to all persons in both counties (TBD), I think it is a more deep-routed belief system guided by their political Ideologies...Yea, and (maybe) they collaborated on an ideology, but not cross-county "spit", imo.

If my permit comes back restricted, I'll be Lawyering up immediately, no way they can get away with this for very long anyway.

[Lucky Lefty 112]

Just now, Spdracr said:

I didn't know his permit was signed by the ocean county Judge. Is that confirmed? 

Francisco is from monmouth. His permit is from monmouth. Signed by monmouth.

On his video, he reads the entire page of restrictions.

You can read the order from the photo posted from ocean county, and it matches exactly with what Daniel is reading. Essentially verifying that at the very least 1 person from monmouth and 1 person from ocean received the same exact order of restrictions, at virtually the same exact time.

Within the same video, Daniel acknowledges a comment from someone watching his live stream that the same order has been handed out in ocean county.

 

[NorthernYankee 94]

Just now, Lucky Lefty said:

Francisco is from monmouth. His permit is from monmouth. Signed by monmouth.

On his video, he reads the entire page of restrictions.

You can read the order from the photo posted from ocean county, and it matches exactly with what Daniel is reading. Essentially verifying that at the very least 1 person from monmouth and 1 person from ocean received the same exact order of restrictions, at virtually the same exact time.

Within the same video, Daniel acknowledges a comment from someone watching his live stream that the same order has been handed out in ocean county.

 

Daniel even mentions in the comments section of the YouTube video that he spoke to the person from ocean and that there is more to it but he can't divulge the information yet.

[Shortfuse 39]

I hear that Gazinski is doing both Ocean and Monmouth Unconfirmed

[Spdracr 25]

1 minute ago, Shortfuse said:

I hear that Gazinski is doing both Ocean and Monmouth Unconfirmed

According to the monmouth Vicinage she isn't assigned to monmouth so she shouldn't be. 

[Shortfuse 39]

Like I said UNCONFIRMED 

[Spdracr 25]

in all honesty. this thread is becoming nothing but a full blown assumption pool with people putting in their two cents. this is supposed to be a thread for different experiences from people who received their permits or any other CONFIRMED permits not some random picture posted on an unknown permit with zero information provided. 

[Combat Auto 174]

Would someone please post Daniels latest vid, only thing I can find from him was a vid from last December...Thanks Kindly!

[Lucky Lefty 112]

2 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

Thanks for the info...I find the spite angle kinda incredulous personally now that the SC has ruled on this. And especially if they take their spite and share it with every wana-be permit holder in Monmouth...Would any rational person with a cushy judge seat take a risk to their job as such...And indeed the spite angle doesn't explain Ocean as you imply.

If it is applied to all persons in both counties (TBD), I think it is a more deep-routed belief system guided by their political Ideologies...Yea, and (maybe) they collaborated on an ideology, but not cross-county "spit", imo.

If my permit comes back restricted, I'll be Lawyering up immediately, no way they can get away with for very long anyway.

This is why the speculation is that monmouth and ocean are in cahoots.

If Daniel were able to point out bias/discrimination for his unjust restrictions, the court would be caught with their pants down and get blown out of the water.

By now issuing the same restrictions, and even within a different county, they can claim there is no discrimination against Daniel Francisco because these restrictions are now being placed on "everyone".

The judges are taking a risk, but the statute allowing them complete discretion to limit the permit as they see fit, is lawfully allowing them to get away with these orders.

Until the law changes, they will find away to keep you from carrying.

Remember, we are dealing with PDs and courts that for decades have had zero problem using vague legislation to cripple your 2A rights. Bruen didn't change the law or make a new one, it just eliminated justifiable need.

Francisco case became personal in some aspects, and it's been a lengthy legal battle for him. Does anyone think the officials opposing and fighting so hard against him would just roll over and tap out?

When have we ever seen established authority bend the knee so easily?

[Combat Auto 174]

4 minutes ago, Shortfuse said:

I hear that Gazinski is doing both Ocean and Monmouth Unconfirmed

My PD says she is so overwhelmed, in Ocean already

[NorthernYankee 94]

2 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

Would someone please post Daniels latest vid, only thing I can find from him was a vid from last December...Thanks Kindly!

 

[Spdracr 25]

4 minutes ago, Shortfuse said:

Like I said UNCONFIRMED 

unconfirmed info is just useless. it causes more speculation and more panic especially since she issued that terrible permit that is floating around with no owner to back up its story. 

[Lucky Lefty 112]

1 minute ago, Combat Auto said:

My PD says she is so overwhelmed, in Ocean already

Which is ridiculous because all she needs is a rubber stamp.

There is no more need for her, or any other judge or prosecutor, to decide whether or not you are worthy of a permit.

Pass background check?

Mental health check?

Here's your permit.

That's how it should go

Frankly, if someone is deemed unsafe to carry a firearm, why would they be allowed to own them and purchase them?

If you have an FID, and have received pistol purchase permits, is that not proof enough that you also have the ability to carry? Or is there a threshold where you aren't enough of a crazy or criminal that you can own, but too much of a crazy or criminal to carry?

 

[Combat Auto 174]

4 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

This is why the speculation is that monmouth and ocean are in cahoots.

If Daniel were able to point out bias/discrimination for his unjust restrictions, the court would be caught with their pants down and get blown out of the water.

By now issuing the same restrictions, and even within a different county, they can claim there is no discrimination against Daniel Francisco because these restrictions are now being placed on "everyone".

The judges are taking a risk, but the statute allowing them complete discretion to limit the permit as they see fit, is lawfully allowing them to get away with these orders.

Until the law changes, they will find away to keep you from carrying.

Remember, we are dealing with PDs and courts that for decades have had zero problem using vague legislation to cripple your 2A rights. Bruen didn't change the law or make a new one, it just eliminated justifiable need.

Francisco case became personal in some aspects, and it's been a lengthy legal battle for him. Does anyone think the officials opposing and fighting so hard against him would just roll over and tap out?

When have we ever seen established authority bend the knee so easily?

I have received hugs and kisses from my PD all the way...Even the NJS Troopers are helping the qualification ranges understand the laws as far as the qual which are lower than what the pre-ruling infrastructure her maintained when 95% of their clientele are retired cops. Unfortunately many ranges are not listening to them on the hope of charging more and extra and selling additional classes.

I always suspected if we were to run into delays (in ocean anyway) it would likely be the Judge step.

This restricted vs non restricted thing is still not jiving with me...If they were issuing non-restricted before the SC ruling (and yes some restricted), they just can't justify from June on to forever giving everyone a restricted. Yea, they can do anything they want for now, but it isn't going to hold up in court post SC ruling, not without cause anyway (which we have yet to see). The man issue for me is the driving while carry restriction. No way on earth they will get away with  this if applied in universal manner on everyone...We need more samples at the moment to see if anyone is getting an unrestricted permit. And then the big question is, on what basis are the restricting those who get the restricted permit.

10 minutes ago, Lucky Lefty said:

Which is ridiculous because all she needs is a rubber stamp.

There is no more need for her, or any other judge or prosecutor, to decide whether or not you are worthy of a permit.

Pass background check?

Mental health check?

Here's your permit.

That's how it should go

Frankly, if someone is deemed unsafe to carry a firearm, why would they be allowed to own them and purchase them?

If you have an FID, and have received pistol purchase permits, is that not proof enough that you also have the ability to carry? Or is there a threshold where you aren't enough of a crazy or criminal that you can own, but too much of a crazy or criminal to carry?

 

Of course, no need for any judges any more...Ad hoc in case a PD refuses, then you need a judge.

[Lucky Lefty 112]

2 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

I have received hugs and kisses from my PD all the way...Even the NJS Troopers are helping the qualification ranges understand the laws as far as the qual which are lower than what the pre-ruling infrastructure her maintained when 95% of their clientele are retired cops. Unfortunately many ranges are not listening to them on the hope of charging more and extra and selling additional classes.

I always suspected if we were to run into delays (in ocean anyway) it would likely be the Judge step.

This restricted vs non restricted thing is still not jiving with me...If they were issuing non-restricted before the SC ruling (and yes some restricted), they just can't justify from June on to forever giving everyone a restricted. Yea, they can do anything they want for now, but it isn't going to hold up in court post SC ruling, not without cause anyway (which we have yet to see). The man issue for me is the driving while carry restriction. No way on earth they will get away with  this if applied in universal manner on everyone...We need more samples at the moment to see if anyone is getting an unrestricted permit. And then the big question is, on what basis are the restricting those who get the restricted permit.

4 days ago, a gentleman in Millville received his carry permit with zero restrictions. No attached court order. Nothing. 

Every county has been doing something different since the SC decision.

Just to clarify what you had said, NJ was issuing essentially zero permits prior to the bruen decision. There were ~2000 permits in total within the entire state that were solely RPO, security, judges, politicians.

Post bruen, for the average citizen, the permits have been issued with wildly varying restrictions and circumstances depending on where you live.

Since the last batch of permits issued in monmouth and ocean with the orders in question attached, nothing else has come out yet, at least publicly.

Other counties have continued to issue permits with either no restriction, or just specific firearm restrictions, so we are all patiently waiting for the next batch of monmouth/ocean permits to surface to see if they also have the list of restrictions, or not.

Upon speaking to a 2A attorney, I was informed that currently 15 of 21 counties have been issuing with restrictions, with each county doing whatever they want as they see fit.

In a nut shell, it's been a complete shit show.

[Bushmaster1313 61]

Still just crickets out of Middlesex

[Lucky Lefty 112]

Here is another confirmed set of permits out of ocean county with the same list of restrictions.

Gentleman states he and his wife received their permits via Manchester PD last week

[Combat Auto 174]

1 hour ago, NorthernYankee said:

 

Excellent vid thanks...He spends a lot of time on the driving restriction as just plain nutz and feels like we do it is the most formative restriction...He thinks it is a vendetta against him too. 

Parks and such hum, but a car is much different as it is an intrinsic part of daily life, no way in heck that will hold up post SC ruling...Hopefully, ANJRPC and co. are dealing with this now as it negates the permit quite a bit. And is very unsafe having to load up in public every place you stop your car.

 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

***DELETED***

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[TexasLTC 3]

Applied 8/2/22 at NJSP Woodstown, fingerprints 7/19

 

Emailed yesterday, replied back today. Officer said there are 32 application to process, I am one of the 32 applications. There are two applications in front of me. My fingerprints were received.

[exfed2002 4]

6 hours ago, RadioGunner said:

Wouldn’t surprise me as Texas allows defense of mere property with firearms. 

THAT IS NOT TRUE. Read the law,  meeting the requirements is almost impossible.

[ToddD 59]

Burlington county:

Alex (firearms guy for court) originally said no hearing. When I spoke to Judge cooks office last week they said a hearing is required for everyone and that letters went out and should be arriving soon. After that conversation Alex again told people no hearing required.

Just got my letter to appear today. 

Seems like Alex is wrong/misinformed. 

Unless there’s an issue with mine specifically …but the asst prosecutor told me via email they approved my app. 

At this point in time I assume it’s for everyone until I hear differently. 

[RadioGunner 218]

7 minutes ago, exfed2002 said:

THAT IS NOT TRUE. Read the law,  meeting the requirements is almost impossible.

I have read the law. It is narrow but not impossible.

https://www.dougmurphylaw.com/defense-of-property

 

[Combat Auto 174]

After watching the vid of David and thinking about it, unfortunately, I don't think they are singling him out. I think they are going to put the driving restriction on everyone. It is ideology over spite. Yea, I am sure (like doctors do) Judges all speak with each other know each other even play golf with each other, so yea there could have been collaboration of sorts on what restrictions they could put...Jeff may have just got lucky by getting there early before the judges realized how the can temper the SC ruling...

The only way to stop this now is another Lawsuit, not sure if a judge can be sued or the county has to be sued...But that driving restriction has to be dealt with in court.

Anyway, that is my opinion for now, I hope to heck I am wrong and David and the person from ocean are the exception. But it doesn't sound likely. We are jointly hosed for now.

Some posted that Nappin is working this and it will be resolved in the short term. Maybe that is why the permits are being held up right now. This would be nice, but I'd feel better if we heard this from Nappen, maybe in his seminar Sunday.

[galapoola 102]

41 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

Some posted that Nappin is working this and it will be resolved in the short term. Maybe that is why the permits are being held up right now. This would be nice, but I'd feel better if we heard this from Nappen, maybe in his seminar Sunday.

You would think that on its face it’s un-constitutional and a federal district judge could fast track a motion. Perhaps the most senior superior judge, one who oversees all the counties could put a stop to this practice. This is judicial misconduct and overreach. Finally, the acting attorney general who issued the directive could weigh in. The executive and judicial branches do not answer to one another however it was that directive from the executive branch that compelled the courts to no longer consider a letter of need. SCOTUS was very clear about sensitive place shenanigans, going so far as to name NYC as an example of what not to do. 
When my permit is issued, if I have the motor vehicle restriction, I’m going to speak with the chief of police in my town and see if he will instruct his department to not enforce that restriction. Most of my travel is within town so this could extend some relief while things get sorted out. We see sheriffs all across the nation standing up to tyranny, maybe it’s time to ask our PD’s to do the same.

[Jim Jones 108]

2 hours ago, Lucky Lefty said:

Here is another confirmed set of permits out of ocean county with the same list of restrictions.

Gentleman states he and his wife received their permits via Manchester PD last week

God I hope this isn’t true!

[JackDaWack 2,895]

3 hours ago, Lucky Lefty said:

This is why the speculation is that monmouth and ocean are in cahoots.

If Daniel were able to point out bias/discrimination for his unjust restrictions, the court would be caught with their pants down and get blown out of the water.

By now issuing the same restrictions, and even within a different county, they can claim there is no discrimination against Daniel Francisco because these restrictions are now being placed on "everyone".

The judges are taking a risk, but the statute allowing them complete discretion to limit the permit as they see fit, is lawfully allowing them to get away with these orders.

Until the law changes, they will find away to keep you from carrying.

Remember, we are dealing with PDs and courts that for decades have had zero problem using vague legislation to cripple your 2A rights. Bruen didn't change the law or make a new one, it just eliminated justifiable need.

Francisco case became personal in some aspects, and it's been a lengthy legal battle for him. Does anyone think the officials opposing and fighting so hard against him would just roll over and tap out?

When have we ever seen established authority bend the knee so easily?

I would correct you on one thing. NJ law doesn't actually permit the Judges to do anything post Bruen. 

Bruen states the permitting process must be objectionable, and can only restrict sensitive places... 

Right off the bat, if even one person gets different restrictions then another, "objectionable" is off the table. And a car on a public road is in no way a sensitive place. 

The legislation is not directing the outcome, Bruen is, or the judges lack of respect for Bruen. 

I'd honestly, if I were him, begin looking into suing for judicial misconduct and seeking to remove judicial immunity from the judge. It's a long shot, but something needs to happen. 

[brucin 923]

20 minutes ago, galapoola said:

SCOTUS was very clear about sensitive place shenanigans, going so far as to name NYC as an example of what not to do.

And yet the Concealed Carry Improvement Act was allowed to go into effect.

I had to unload and load my gun several times a day and this was up in the Adirondacks where it has always been relatively easy to get a permit.