NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[Grima Squeakersen 478]

***DELETED***

[RadioGunner 218]

Those who called the court, where did you call? Money order cashed 8/22, no word from NJSP yet. 

[g17owner 137]

Just now, RadioGunner said:

Those who called the court, where did you call? Money order cashed 8/22, no word from NJSP yet. 

I looked up the superior court of my county (morris) and then selected options til I got a human and asked to be transferred to the gun guy.

[GlockityGlockGlock 21]

42 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

Those who called the court, where did you call? Money order cashed 8/22, no word from NJSP yet. 

sussex is 862-397-5700 opt 1 then 2 then 3 then 4

[Bushmaster1313 61]

57 minutes ago, samiam said:

Good luck with buttering up some conceited bureaucrat who already considers such treatment his or her vested entitlement, won't take any special note of it, and quite possibly isn't above shining on an overly deferential subject with a diversionary line of crap solely intended to get rid of them as quickly as possible. I'm sure that not all Superior Court staff are like that, but I'm pretty certain there are a good number of people like that in there (I've occasionally spoken to one or another who meets that description on other issues). Whether or not I prefaced my letter with a phone call would depend on my analysis of the specific circumstances. I fully intend to be civil and polite (as is deserved by anyone I need to deal with who hasn't overtly tried to screw me), but I have no intention of kissing ass. These are public empoyees with a job to do we are discussing, not candidates for sainthood.

ADDED: I also might ask that since there is no longer any justification for the court to do any more than rubber-stamp approve an application that has been previously approved, what can possibly take an extended period of time?

The Police Department gets 60 days and the Court gets 30 days. So if I was an overworked and moderately paid Judge trying to do the right thing and the applicant pestering me was within 90 days of the application being complete I would ask myself: “This job is tough enough as is, why is this person giving me a hard time.”

[always_an_eagle 165]

Update on my CCW. It is somewhere in the Somerset County Court systems. I keep calling the investigator for my PD but all I get is the voicemail.When I usually apply for my pistol permits, I am approved so I don't see an issue with the PD. From what I been hearing on r/NJguns from other somerset county redditers and on the Somerset County CCW facebook group, the hold up is in the courts. Apparently, they are awaiting guidance from the state, specific guidiance I am not so sure. It seems to me that other counties have figured out what to do. I tried to call the somerset county criminal case management clerk Rhonda Scott but went to her voicemail. I just hope there is no additonal restrictions like Ocean and Monmouth county is doing. It looks like Somerset county is anti ccw.

[marlintag 223]

Another update in Middlesex County

Apologies for the long email and punctuation errors but, this was written in haste as I'm kind of busy at the moment. Those in Middlesex County and possibly other counties will want to take what I write note for note. I missed a phone call that appeared as "NJ Judiciary" in the inbound phone call log. I naturally assumed this was the Superior Court regarding my missing application, so I called them back. The individual who picked up was not the correct contact, so they transferred me to same individual i spoke to on Friday regarding my missing application. Before I was transferred though, the person who initially picked up the phone mumbled something under their breath which to me sounded like "it doesn't matter ", I could be entirely wrong, but it is hard to make out garbled messages correctly. The person I spoke to regarding my application stated the following.

1. My application was received today in the court even though my PD told me they shipped it out weeks ago!

2. There have been no carry applications signed off by the judge in Middlesex County. 

3. When it's ready for I pick up I will receive a phone call. (with the understanding that the phone call would come from the court)

So, what I have learned from this experience? Well, it doesn't take weeks in transit to send a manilla envelope a few miles to New Brunswick using USPS or any other carrier! The PD's are "fudging" the dates in which your applications are sent, or the applications sent are in some dark vault deep within the bowels of court for weeks before being logged in by court personnel!!! Secondly, the judge has not signed off any applications so even if your money order is cashed it won't matter without a judge's signature. Thirdly, I believe once Middlesex starts issuing permits, we will likely have to pick up our permits from the courthouse and not the PD. Based on my conversation with the clerk, it does sound like they are at least processing the applications, but the issue remains that the assignment judge is not signing off on them. I really wish that Strikeforce would take note of what's happening in Middlesex County, at some point action will need to be taken. The clock is now ticking on my application....

 

[Blairsden 17]

Update to Morris County.  (Mendham)

7/7(?):  Dropped completed packet to Detective @ July 7

7/20:   Identogo appointment, confirmed with local PD by email

8/30:   Money order cashed (Permit and court order signed on 8/30)

9/08:   Received call from, and picked up permit from local PD

             PD noted that it is a "Carry Permit", (either concealed and open)

             "No Restrictions", "See Court Order"

             Court Order includes the Model and Serial #'s

Signed by The Honorable Michael E. Hubner, J.S.C.

 

[Mr.Stu 1,913]

11 minutes ago, Blairsden said:

Update to Morris County.  (Mendham)

7/7(?):  Dropped completed packet to Detective @ July 7

7/20:   Identogo appointment, confirmed with local PD by email

8/30:   Money order cashed (Permit and court order signed on 8/30)

9/08:   Received call from, and picked up permit from local PD

             PD noted that it is a "Carry Permit", (either concealed and open)

             "No Restrictions", "See Court Order"

             Court Order includes the Model and Serial #'s

Signed by The Honorable Michael E. Hubner, J.S.C.

 

What does the court order say about the serial numbers? Are you limited to carrying just those? 

[g17owner 137]

16 minutes ago, Blairsden said:

Update to Morris County.  (Mendham)

7/7(?):  Dropped completed packet to Detective @ July 7

7/20:   Identogo appointment, confirmed with local PD by email

8/30:   Money order cashed (Permit and court order signed on 8/30)

9/08:   Received call from, and picked up permit from local PD

             PD noted that it is a "Carry Permit", (either concealed and open)

             "No Restrictions", "See Court Order"

             Court Order includes the Model and Serial #'s

Signed by The Honorable Michael E. Hubner, J.S.C.

 

Awesome, congrats! See you at Kings!

[Combat Auto 174]

1 hour ago, always_an_eagle said:

Update on my CCW. It is somewhere in the Somerset County Court systems. I keep calling the investigator for my PD but all I get is the voicemail.When I usually apply for my pistol permits, I am approved so I don't see an issue with the PD. From what I been hearing on r/NJguns from other somerset county redditers and on the Somerset County CCW facebook group, the hold up is in the courts. Apparently, they are awaiting guidance from the state, specific guidiance I am not so sure. It seems to me that other counties have figured out what to do. I tried to call the somerset county criminal case management clerk Rhonda Scott but went to her voicemail. I just hope there is no additonal restrictions like Ocean and Monmouth county is doing. It looks like Somerset county is anti ccw.

I am wondering who is providing the guidance to the counties...There are 3 branches (obviously :-)), and I'm just guessing that it could only come from the legislative branch via law when they are in session, and it always takes a long time...Then there is the AG and the State Troopers in the executive branch. I would guess the standards and proposed codes concerning carry would come from them...The Judicial branch (as far as I know) doesn't have the authority to make laws, so I believe Monmouth and Ocean Judges are just pulling crap out of the air about the no-carry while driving, because if it was coming from the AG/Troopers it would (likely) be applied to all counties. And we see enough incidents in other counties that permits are not restricted which implies the driving restriction is not being applied universally.

Well, I am glad the ANJRPC Task force is working this Carry while Driving issue. I think the two fore mention counties will be induced to stop the nonsense (or get sued).

[Bushmaster1313 61]

35 minutes ago, marlintag said:

Another update in Middlesex County

Apologies for the long email and punctuation errors but, this was written in haste as I'm kind of busy at the moment. Those in Middlesex County and possibly other counties will want to take what I write note for note. I missed a phone call that appeared as "NJ Judiciary" in the inbound phone call log. I naturally assumed this was the Superior Court regarding my missing application, so I called them back. The individual who picked up was not the correct contact, so they transferred me to same individual i spoke to on Friday regarding my missing application. Before I was transferred though, the person who initially picked up the phone mumbled something under their breath which to me sounded like "it doesn't matter ", I could be entirely wrong, but it is hard to make out garbled messages correctly. The person I spoke to regarding my application stated the following.

1. My application was received today in the court even though my PD told me they shipped it out weeks ago!

2. There have been no carry applications signed off by the judge in Middlesex County. 

3. When it's ready for I pick up I will receive a phone call. (with the understanding that the phone call would come from the court)

So, what I have learned from this experience? Well, it doesn't take weeks in transit to send a manilla envelope a few miles to New Brunswick using USPS or any other carrier! The PD's are "fudging" the dates in which your applications are sent, or the applications sent are in some dark vault deep within the bowels of court for weeks before being logged in by court personnel!!! Secondly, the judge has not signed off any applications so even if your money order is cashed it won't matter without a judge's signature. Thirdly, I believe once Middlesex starts issuing permits, we will likely have to pick up our permits from the courthouse and not the PD. Based on my conversation with the clerk, it does sound like they are at least processing the applications, but the issue remains that the assignment judge is not signing off on them. I really wish that Strikeforce would take note of what's happening in Middlesex County, at some point action will need to be taken. The clock is now ticking on my application....

 

This is my timeline

August 19 I get notification that my approved application is being sent to Middlesex Superior Court

August 23 The date I assume my application arrived

August 26 I inquire by e-mail about my application and receive response that my application was received

September 1 Money Order cashed

September 8 Today and I have heard nothing since August 26

September 12-21 My guess as to when I will hear something from the Court

September 22 will be 30 days at the Court and if I hear nothing I will politely inquire about status

Your Mileage May Vary

[Sam1 18]

3 minutes ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

This is my timeline

August 19 I get notification that my approved application is being sent to Middlesex Superior Court

August 23 The date I assume my application arrived

August 26 I inquire by e-mail about my application and receive response that my application was received

September 1 Money Order cashed

September 8 Today and I have heard nothing since August 26

September 12-21 My guess as to when I will hear something from the Court

September 22 will be 30 days at the Court and if I hear nothing I will politely inquire about status

Your Mileage May Vary

Congratulations on finding your application and hopefully you'll get your permit soon, do you mind sharing which town/PD?

[Bushmaster1313 61]

9 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

Congratulations on finding your application and hopefully you'll get your permit soon, do you mind sharing which town/PD?

Edison

Very professional and responsive

[Sam1 18]

Just now, Bushmaster1313 said:

Edison

Very professional and responsive

Thanks!

[g17owner 137]

1 hour ago, Blairsden said:

Update to Morris County.  (Mendham)

7/7(?):  Dropped completed packet to Detective @ July 7

7/20:   Identogo appointment, confirmed with local PD by email

8/30:   Money order cashed (Permit and court order signed on 8/30)

9/08:   Received call from, and picked up permit from local PD

             PD noted that it is a "Carry Permit", (either concealed and open)

             "No Restrictions", "See Court Order"

             Court Order includes the Model and Serial #'s

Signed by The Honorable Michael E. Hubner, J.S.C.

 

Any idea when your application was dropped off at the court? Mine was dropped off today, Im curious what kind of wait Im in for.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

So i just thought of something....

If the court places restrictions on your permit... and you violate them... what happens? 

Have you broken a law? Or would you be held in contempt of court?

While a judge may place restrictions.. well not really.. but even if they do they don't appear to be legally binding.. I don't see any laws for violating said court order. 

[RadioGunner 218]

1 minute ago, JackDaWack said:

So i just thought of something....

If the court places restrictions on your permit... and you violate them... what happens? 

Have you broken a law? Or would you be held in contempt of court?

While a judge may place restrictions.. well not really.. but even if they do they don't appear to be legally binding.. I don't see any laws for violating said court order. 

Contempt of court is what I was told.

[Mr.Stu 1,913]

4 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

So i just thought of something....

If the court places restrictions on your permit... and you violate them... what happens? 

Have you broken a law? Or would you be held in contempt of court?

While a judge may place restrictions.. well not really.. but even if they do they don't appear to be legally binding.. I don't see any laws for violating said court order. 

If you are in possession of a handgun, and your permit expressly excludes that situation, I would imagine you would be charged with illegal possession of a firearm.

[124gr9mm 859]

1 hour ago, Blairsden said:

Update to Morris County.  (Mendham)

7/7(?):  Dropped completed packet to Detective @ July 7

7/20:   Identogo appointment, confirmed with local PD by email

8/30:   Money order cashed (Permit and court order signed on 8/30)

9/08:   Received call from, and picked up permit from local PD

             PD noted that it is a "Carry Permit", (either concealed and open)

             "No Restrictions", "See Court Order"

             Court Order includes the Model and Serial #'s

Signed by The Honorable Michael E. Hubner, J.S.C.

 

Congrats!

Glad to hear about some movement in Morris county...

[JackDaWack 2,895]

18 minutes ago, RadioGunner said:

Contempt of court is what I was told.

That's what I have figured... 

My second thought was the "driving/vehicle" restrictions name the statute by code.. which only applies to someone who doesn't have a permit to carry, or more specifically is going somewhere specific or hunting per section 2 as it's a listed exception and not a blanket requirement.  

Subsection 2 doesn't apply, therefor neither would the requirement to follow the transport law. So technically you would be following the court order even if you carried the gun on your hip while driving. 

14 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

If you are in possession of a handgun, and your permit expressly excludes that situation, I would imagine you would be charged with illegal possession of a firearm.

How? You have not broken a law.

[Mr.Stu 1,913]

3 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

How? You have not broken a law.

The statute says possession of a handgun, without first obtaining a permit is a felony. If the permit you obtained does not cover the situation you are in with your handgun, you might just as well not have a permit at all.

I'm assuming you're not covered by the exemptions (to/from a range, etc.) in this theoretical situation. 

[galapoola 102]

20 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

If you are in possession of a handgun, and your permit expressly excludes that situation, I would imagine you would be charged with illegal possession of a firearm.

Logically I agree. If you are carrying in your car with the restrictions it would be similar to carrying anywhere without a permit so it's a felony. You loose everything. But . . .

How would the officer know? Will anyone tell him/her or volunteer the 4 page document?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

27 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

The statute says possession of a handgun, without first obtaining a permit is a felony. If the permit you obtained does not cover the situation you are in with your handgun, you might just as well not have a permit at all.

I'm assuming you're not covered by the exemptions (to/from a range, etc.) in this theoretical situation. 

I could be wrong, but the law doesn't reference failure to comply with restrictions outside the statutory restrictions. 

If You did obtain a permit to carry, you have satisfied the statute... that is all it requires for statutory compliance. 

I'm asking because I don't know how the restrictions are applied, is the permit rendered to as invalid under the restrictions?

If the vehicle restrictions is listed on the permit, it would seem to work in reverse. You would be required to put the handgun in the trunk. Lets say you drive to the food store... the statute listed on the permit for vehicle transport doesn't apply... 

g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

if you are always headed to a gas station when asked... the transport law doesn't apply!!! Thus you are not restricted under the statute listed on the permit/order.

[Lostboy 105]

1 minute ago, galapoola said:

Logically I agree. If you are carrying in your car with the restrictions it would be similar to carrying anywhere without a permit so it's a felony. You loose everything.

So instead load/unload in a parking lot and wait for someone to call 911 and possibly be arrested or shot. Basically if we're going to go along with any of this, you better only carry when you intend on walking to your destination. 

[Shortfuse 39]

Has anyone from Bayville gotten their permit yet ?

[Blairsden 17]

2 hours ago, Mr.Stu said:

What does the court order say about the serial numbers? Are you limited to carrying just those? 

It does specifically list the make, model, and serial #'s of the 2 I qualified with. Nothing on the permit though, just the court order. The permit does state "see court order".

I'll update with a (cropped) picture when I get a chance 

[Blairsden 17]

2 hours ago, g17owner said:

Awesome, congrats! See you at Kings!

Yes, we will meet sometime! (I'm actually stopping there for a minute right now)

[Bushmaster1313 61]

1 hour ago, JackDaWack said:

So i just thought of something....

If the court places restrictions on your permit... and you violate them... what happens? 

Have you broken a law? Or would you be held in contempt of court?

While a judge may place restrictions.. well not really.. but even if they do they don't appear to be legally binding.. I don't see any laws for violating said court order. 

IIRC the statute says that the judge can put any restrictions on the permit that the judge thinks appropriate. If true, only violate the judge’s restrictions if you are okay with three hots and a cot and all that goes with a felony conviction. 

[Blairsden 17]

1 hour ago, g17owner said:

Any idea when your application was dropped off at the court? Mine was dropped off today, Im curious what kind of wait Im in for.

I don't know but I should have asked Det. G. I didn't think of it at the time. 

1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:

Congrats!

Glad to hear about some movement in Morris county...

Thank you! I'm still in a pleasant state of amazement.