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NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

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1 minute ago, samiam said:

Does that include sitting in the driver's or passenger's seat when the vehicle is parked?

Considering you could be charged and convicted,  people have, with DWI by simply sitting or even sleeping in a  parked car. I wouldn't put it past an anti2a prosecutor to use the same precedent. 

 

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5 minutes ago, djg0770 said:

My PD is requiring a use of force certificate. I reported it to Strikeforce at ANJRPC and in the meantime, RTSP issued an email about a free RPO use of force presentation with certificate.

I just completed it and sent it in.

Can you give us a link to the Use of force presentation...I only found one on line written by the State of NJ for all LEOs to follow. I read it because much (no all) of it applies to civilians too...Do you have something different?

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2 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

Can you give us a link to the Use of force presentation...I only found one on line written by the State of NJ for all LEOs to follow. I read it because much (no all) of it applies to civilians too...Do you have something different?

https://www.rtsponline.com/use-of-force-training/?mc_cid=fc7e98a0ca&mc_eid=ead8b9d474

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Per discussion above, I wouldn't violate the Judges order - no carry while driving. It isn't going to last long given the recent SP ruling...And we have no indication (at this time) it is coming from the executive branch/AG/NJSTers because it has only been sighted in Ocean and Monmouth (2 verified sample only (i think)...More likely the 2 Judges are activists judges.

We've waited so long to get to this point, why get a violation when you can wait just a little longer. That restriction is so outlandish it will fall apart from its own weight, imo.

The Strikforce Lawyer e-mailed me stating that they are already aware and "on it".

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1 hour ago, djg0770 said:

My PD is requiring a use of force certificate. I reported it to Strikeforce at ANJRPC and in the meantime, RTSP issued an email about a free RPO use of force presentation with certificate.

I just completed it and sent it in.

My PD required the same, it was a quite a large packet i handed in.

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3 hours ago, samiam said:

I am not clear on one aspect of Gizinski's prohibition of carrying while driving or riding in a vehicle. Does that include sitting in the driver's or passenger's seat when the vehicle is parked? Because if it does include that state (and I didn't read anything in her order that would indicate otherwise) then you couldn't unholster the gun and put it a locked container without first exiting the vehicle. Under many circumstances, that could make it a major challenge to accomplish without being observed (downtown, retail district, on an early evening during the height of holiday shopping season?). I think that is the kind of scenario being comtemplated here. Also, Lostboy has posted elsewhere about how to carry in compliance when riding a motorcycle. How would you disarm yourself and secure the weapon in that case? IMO there are very legitimate concerns.

Carry has never been allowed in NJ so we can make up hundreds of scenarios where nothing is specifically documented.

People can go crazy with scenario after scenario, but they're all imaginary at this point.

Bottom line, BE AN ADULT and use your brain.  If you're unsure about the legality of bringing your pistol somewhere then either leave it home or don't make the trip.

If you're concerned about someone seeing you holster up after riding your motorcycle to the middle of a busy shopping center, then don't go.

 

 

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3 hours ago, samiam said:

I am not clear on one aspect of Gizinski's prohibition of carrying while driving or riding in a vehicle. Does that include sitting in the driver's or passenger's seat when the vehicle is parked? Because if it does include that state (and I didn't read anything in her order that would indicate otherwise) then you couldn't unholster the gun and put it a locked container without first exiting the vehicle. Under many circumstances, that could make it a major challenge to accomplish without being observed (downtown, retail district, on an early evening during the height of holiday shopping season?). I think that is the kind of scenario being comtemplated here. Also, Lostboy has posted elsewhere about how to carry in compliance when riding a motorcycle. How would you disarm yourself and secure the weapon in that case? IMO there are very legitimate concerns.

I am interpreting it to mean exactly this. Sitting in the car would constitute carrying inside a motorvehicle. I'm not really so concerned with breaking a law as much as I am giving them probable cause to search and seize for no other reason than someone saw something. I don't know the law word for word, but neither do police officers. My point is, why even give them an excuse? The less people that know you're carrying the better. 

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Today my money order got cashed (submitted application 8/16), I called Somerville court criminal devision which is mine for the Franklyn Township and lady said - around one month more to wait because tons of applications in process and it is new/extra job for them. Nothing else, she said - we are preparing for the judge and when approved she will call me to comeover and pickup permit same place. I asked is anyone got approved - not yet she said but soon....

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3 minutes ago, Rob0115 said:

Anyone submit before qualifying?  Says there is 6 months to get quals done. 

You have that backwards. You need to submit the whole packet including quals. The quals must have been shot in the previous 6 months.

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4 hours ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

With respect to search and seizure and the exclusion of evidence under the Fourth Amendment, there is something known as the “Automobile Exception.”  If a driver is stopped, the U.S. Supreme Court allows the interior of the vehicle to be searched because of the special risk an automobile creates for the police officer. If I was a zealous attorney representing the state in favor of restricting carry permits to exclude while operating or riding in a car, I would argue that the Second Amendment also has an “Automobile Exception,” and I might win that argument in court. 

How does that argument fair by having a gun on your hip while walking literally anywhere and being stopped by a police officer? 

The argument made was with respect to the bar set for obtaining search and seizure privileges. 

I would also expect that during any stop they would have the ability to remove a firearm from your possesion until they are done. Although even that I don't agree with. 

 

 

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My app was turned in 7/29  last Reference was called on 9/6 stopped by the PD today Firearms person said my packet is in the next Batch to go to the Court Next week. She said nobody here in Bayville has gotten a Permit yet the first batch was sent to Court first week of August she said there is only one Judge doing it and one Clerk working on all the apps. I also mentioned the Restrictions She knew nothing about them since none have been issued in Bayville yet she was also under the impression that your firearms would be listed on the back of your permit. Said I would get a call when my app was sent to the Court

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1 hour ago, galapoola said:

Mine too

Gun for Hire gave me a 'Deadly Force rules' paper to sign and turn in to the PD, but when I turned in my package the guy in Hoboken refused to take it and said it was not required. No matter what I said, he just kept handing it back so I kept it.

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7 hours ago, djg0770 said:

Thank you for the link. I just watched the course and submitted for my certificate if/when I need it. Nice of them to do that. 

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17 minutes ago, LineItem said:

Gun for Hire gave me a 'Deadly Force rules' paper to sign and turn in to the PD, but when I turned in my package the guy in Hoboken refused to take it and said it was not required. No matter what I said, he just kept handing it back so I kept it.

It's not required for a Permit to Carry a Handgun.  Police qualification, retired police qualification, and P2C all have their own unique rules and the PD's get them mixed up.

NJAC 13:45-2.4 lists 3 ways you can qualify and you need any one of the three, not more than one.

  1. completion of a firearms training course just like the police take.
  2. submission of qualifications scores using the handgun you intend to carry done with a certified firearms instructor.
  3. passage of a test on the State's laws governing use of force. by a certified firearms instructor.

You need only one, not two, not three. Google the law above for more details.

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11 hours ago, Shortfuse said:

My app was turned in 7/29  last Reference was called on 9/6 stopped by the PD today Firearms person said my packet is in the next Batch to go to the Court Next week. She said nobody here in Bayville has gotten a Permit yet the first batch was sent to Court first week of August she said there is only one Judge doing it and one Clerk working on all the apps. I also mentioned the Restrictions She knew nothing about them since none have been issued in Bayville yet she was also under the impression that your firearms would be listed on the back of your permit. Said I would get a call when my app was sent to the Court

I'm guessing I am in the same batch, my last reference was called about a week before yours. But the nice Ladies in the PD haven't called me yet...I guess I am not surprise they haven't got at least 1 permit signed, about a month ago she told me she sent the first post SC ruling batch in early August if I remember correctly...I have always estimated 1 month in PD and 2 month for Judge...Looks like they a running a little behind on the 1 month, and who knows what this judge is up to...Odd, but overall good that the driving restriction so far seems to be just in 2 counties, ours being one sucks, but indicates to me it will not stand very long.

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Just had a fleeting thought this early morning. Not making excuses for the feet dragging we are experiencing but … I wonder if there are also supply chain issues with the actual permit cards. I know in my industry we’ve experienced months of delays for certain paper products or print jobs (envelopes, brochures, etc). The permits appear to be the size of index cards but I’m willing to bet the pds and courts didn’t have stacks of thousands laying around. 
 

Good luck to all! 

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7 minutes ago, Deff said:

Just had a fleeting thought this early morning. Not making excuses for the feet dragging we are experiencing but … I wonder if there are also supply chain issues with the actual permit cards. I know in my industry we’ve experienced months of delays for certain paper products or print jobs (envelopes, brochures, etc). The permits appear to be the size of index cards but I’m willing to bet the pds and courts didn’t have stacks of thousands laying around. 
 

Good luck to all! 

It’s just card stock and printed on a laser printer, so no. 

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16 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

Carry has never been allowed in NJ so we can make up hundreds of scenarios where nothing is specifically documented.

People can go crazy with scenario after scenario, but they're all imaginary at this point.

Bottom line, BE AN ADULT and use your brain.  If you're unsure about the legality of bringing your pistol somewhere then either leave it home or don't make the trip.

If you're concerned about someone seeing you holster up after riding your motorcycle to the middle of a busy shopping center, then don't go.

 

 

I think you're missing the whole point of having a PTC. 

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