NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[124gr9mm 859]

1 hour ago, Rambo said:

I think you're missing the whole point of having a PTC. 

No, I'm pragmatic in my approach to it.

I've lived most of my adult life in NJ where I was not able to carry a pistol.  That meant that if I wanted to go anywhere outside my home I could not carry a pistol with me.  I didn't cower in fear because I didn't have a pistol on me.  I lived my life.

Being able to carry a pistol doesn't change my life at all.  If I get a permit I'll carry when i feel it's necessary.

For now I'll have to accept that there are limitations to where/when/how I'll be able to carry.  Those limitations will be constantly challenged in court (and many likely overturned) but until then I'll follow the law.

Wringing my hands and complaining about where I CAN'T carry at this point seems absurd to me.

[galapoola 102]

10 minutes ago, 124gr9mm said:

For now I'll have to accept that there are limitations to where/when/how I'll be able to carry.  Those limitations will be constantly challenged in court (and many likely overturned) but until then I'll follow the law.

Wringing my hands and complaining about where I CAN'T carry at this point seems absurd to me.

All well and good, however, this ragtag community of gun owners needs to gain as much ground as fast as possible. I too will take what I can but I’m not satisfied with everything that Bruen has given us in theory and that NJ is doing in practice. If we sit back with a piece of the win, then NJ will oblige us and squeeze our rights down. Ocean and Monmouth county courts need to be made an example of in the most extreme manner possible. They need to humiliated and slapped down so other judges will not follow. Thanks 

[Combat Auto 174]

Bruen was earthshattering in our favor, but we can't expect Thomas and Alito to show up and witness in every 2A county dispute, they gave us the tools, the rest is up to us...It is expected that some pushback would come from a state that now has to adapt to the new reality after over 100 years, a reality that should have always been manifested here...In fact, given the AG capitulated in 1 day, the Troopers and most PDs are supporting this transition, and the ridiculous no carry in car is limited so far to only 2 judges, we are doing exceptionally well vs what was expected by ANJRPC.

IANAL, but I can't see how these two counties can put that kind of severe restriction when apparently no others are (so far anyway). And given the Strikeforce is all over this issue, even though I live in Ocean, I'm not particularly concerned.

[Rambo 10]

1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:

I've lived most of my adult life in NJ where I was not able to carry a pistol.  That meant that if I wanted to go anywhere outside my home I could not carry a pistol with me.  I didn't cower in fear because I didn't have a pistol on me.  I lived my life.

The point is not about fear when not carrying a pistol. 

 

1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:

Being able to carry a pistol doesn't change my life at all.  If I get a permit I'll carry when i feel it's necessary.

So when you feel it's necessary how will you go about loading and unloading in public "without breaking the law"? Maybe you can share with the class a safe way of obeying the law when you feel "it's necessary" to carry when you cannot carry when being in a motor vehicle. What is your plan?

Also, I do not know what you mean when you say when you "feel it's necessary".  Do you have a crystal ball or are you implying that when you may be in a bad area?  If that's the case, just don't go if you feel there may be trouble. 

Your comment on "Being able to carry a pistol doesn't change my life at all" says it all. If and when someone is carrying a pistol it changes everything. If you don't know that then you should not be carrying. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Rambo

[M1152 713]

18 hours ago, LineItem said:

Gun for Hire gave me a 'Deadly Force rules' paper to sign and turn in to the PD, but when I turned in my package the guy in Hoboken refused to take it and said it was not required. No matter what I said, he just kept handing it back so I kept it.

As per your GFH instructor that document was given to you as a FYI only.  GFH didn’t say that document was to accompany your application.  The link below instructs you want to turn in with your application, they need no more and no less....

https://www.nj.gov/oag/njsp/firearms/pdf/Permit_To_Carry_Instructions.pdf

[124gr9mm 859]

1 hour ago, Rambo said:

The point is not about fear when not carrying a pistol. 

 

So when you feel it's necessary how will you go about loading and unloading in public "without breaking the law"? Maybe you can share with the class a safe way of obeying the law when you feel "it's necessary" to carry when you cannot carry when being in a motor vehicle. What is your plan?

Also, I do not know what you mean when you say when you "feel it's necessary".  Do you have a crystal ball or are you implying that when you may be in a bad area?  If that's the case, just don't go if you feel there may be trouble. 

Your comment on "Being able to carry a pistol doesn't change my life at all" says it all. If and when someone is carrying a pistol it changes everything. If you don't know that then you should not be carrying. 

Perfect. Some random guy on the internet has the litmus test for what someone needs to know or they "should not be carrying.

Your "share with the class" comment is typical of people who want to feel superior and attack others while having no real concept of the issue at hand.  If I get a permit with a travel restriction of some kind ill work out the best process to comply, practice it at home, and then execute when I have to. 

I don't intend on carrying 24/7.  Your comment about a crystal ball is meaningless nonsense. I'll cary when/if I feel I should. 

Go ahead and make up all the pretend scenarios and "what ifs" you want that will paralyze you.  Better yet, wait until the process is perfect before you get you permit.

No idea why you're choosing to attack me. 

 

[MB24 37]

NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

77 pages. By my estimate 1/2 on laws and opinions, 1/2 on actual application experience.

[Lostboy 105]

4 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

No, I'm pragmatic in my approach to it.

I've lived most of my adult life in NJ where I was not able to carry a pistol.  That meant that if I wanted to go anywhere outside my home I could not carry a pistol with me.  I didn't cower in fear because I didn't have a pistol on me.  I lived my life.

Being able to carry a pistol doesn't change my life at all.  If I get a permit I'll carry when i feel it's necessary.

For now I'll have to accept that there are limitations to where/when/how I'll be able to carry.  Those limitations will be constantly challenged in court (and many likely overturned) but until then I'll follow the law.

Wringing my hands and complaining about where I CAN'T carry at this point seems absurd to me.

I don't cower in fear either but I've been in some situations where having a firearm would have made me feel a hell of a lot better. Especially at work counting money or selling stuff on craigslist and whatever. I don't understand why anyone would carry a gun "sometimes" or "when I feel like it". The whole point is to carry it at all times. I mean, to each their own and you're free to do whatever you want, but that's like saying you'll wear your seatbelt sometimes. 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Golf battery 1,223]

If you all haven’t seen it yet.  Eric saperstein wrote an article that cnjo put out.  Just saw it on cnjfo Facebook. I was curious where were at in mercer cty with permits.  He wrote that mercer courts put a stay on signing off on any permits until they get guidance on how to handle it.  What a joke.  How you handle it is take the judges out of it.  There’s nothing for them to rule on.  90% or more  of the process is unconstitutional in nj. 

[124gr9mm 859]

6 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

I don't cower in fear either but I've been in some situations where having a firearm would have made me feel a hell of a lot better. Especially at work counting money or selling stuff on craigslist and whatever. I don't understand why anyone would carry a gun "sometimes" or "when I feel like it". The whole point is to carry it at all times. I mean, to each their own and you're free to do whatever you want, but that's like saying you'll wear your seatbelt sometimes. 

If you've lived in NJ you've never carried one. How do you reconcile that with what you posted above?  You've NEVER carried one but your clear implication is that you must carry at all times.

I've carried in other states but not 100% of the time I was there. 

I know gun guys, leos, former service members who don't carry all the time either.

I go to bars, restaurants, school events, and other places where I can't carry. I could choose to NOT go to those places and live in fear because I can't bring sun with me, but I choose to go out. 

 

[SJ Guns 36]

15 minutes ago, Golf battery said:

If you all haven’t seen it yet.  Eric saperstein wrote an article that cnjo put out.  Just saw it on cnjfo Facebook. I was curious where were at in mercer cty with permits.  He wrote that mercer courts put a stay on signing off on any permits until they get guidance on how to handle it.  What a joke.  How you handle it is take the judges out of it.  There’s nothing for them to rule on.  90% or more  of the process is unconstitutional in nj. 

Seems like the courts and the judges would be in the best position to know what the law requires them to do.  Who would the courts get direction from about how to follow the law if they're the branch in charge of interpreting the law? 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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[Combat Auto 174]

3 hours ago, Golf battery said:

If you all haven’t seen it yet.  Eric saperstein wrote an article that cnjo put out.  Just saw it on cnjfo Facebook. I was curious where were at in mercer cty with permits.  He wrote that mercer courts put a stay on signing off on any permits until they get guidance on how to handle it.  What a joke.  How you handle it is take the judges out of it.  There’s nothing for them to rule on.  90% or more  of the process is unconstitutional in nj. 

I guess they don't know how to dial the NJSTers who have been handing out permits with no Judgy involvement to X-leo's for a long time.

[JRT 19]

37 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

I guess they don't know how to dial the NJSTers who have been handing out permits with no Judgy involvement to X-leo's for a long time.

The RPO is a result of HR218, a Federal Law. It specifically exempts LEO from state and local laws.  As a non-LEO, we are still subject to the State of NJ laws, which require judicial review and issue  

https://www.njspba.com/web_content/pdf/downloads/National-Right-to-Carry-Law-FAQ.pdf

[LineItem 36]

18 hours ago, Krdshrk said:

From FB:  45 days start to finish.  Hudson County.  Restricted to listed pistols.

Congratulations! This gives me hope in Hudson county. So far, lots of doubt and uncertainty from the PD. Great news!

[Tunaman 548]

Looking better for you Paulie....

[Combat Auto 174]

1 hour ago, JRT said:

The RPO is a result of HR218, a Federal Law. It specifically exempts LEO from state and local laws.  As a non-LEO, we are still subject to the State of NJ laws, which require judicial review and issue  

https://www.njspba.com/web_content/pdf/downloads/National-Right-to-Carry-Law-FAQ.pdf

The issue posted was the judges are looking for guidance, who better to provide it to them over the NJSTers. We don't need them anymore actually, but if that has to wait till legislation changes and the Judges can't figure it out for themselves now they should pic up the phone.

[Lostboy 105]

6 hours ago, 124gr9mm said:

If you've lived in NJ you've never carried one. How do you reconcile that with what you posted above?  You've NEVER carried one but your clear implication is that you must carry at all times.

I've carried in other states but not 100% of the time I was there. 

I know gun guys, leos, former service members who don't carry all the time either.

I go to bars, restaurants, school events, and other places where I can't carry. I could choose to NOT go to those places and live in fear because I can't bring sun with me, but I choose to go out. 

 

I know people who have carried in NY/NJ without a permit. Some people really don't mind taking the risk becuase they'd rather carry than be carried. I've personally carried at my business and on my property for quite some time. I was threatened with a firearm and since that day I've stretched my rights without breaking any major laws. 

 

6 hours ago, samiam said:

Just to play devil's advocate, didn't you potentially make the case for carrying "sometimes" with your observations about certain situations where carrying would have made you feel a hell of a lot better?. Are you not already evaluating degress of risk vs. reward in other aspects of your daily behavior? I do that constantly.  As I mentioned in a previous post, I know of no way to carry while swimming or surfing, I doubt if any permit holder will carry while showering after a work-out at the local gym (I very much doubt he or she will even be carrying while working out there). I'm sure there are many other examples of situations where carrying would be impossible or improbable. BTW, I don't wear my seat belt when I turn my car around in our driveway, and I frequently don't immediately put it on when I am starting to move my car in a retail parking lot after leaving a store. Why? Because the speed is very low, other moving vehicles may not be present, and as a result the risk of serious injury in the unlikely event of a collision is also low. It is also easier for me to swivel my head around to see to back out without the shoulder belt secured.

I don't surf and I don't go to the gym. The amount of time I will spend in "gun free zones" isn't much to begin with. Again maybe when I'm doing something at my kids school, but my buddy is a cop there and he is always armed. I have cars without seatbelts and it is what it is, you're missing the point, if you have them why wouldn't you utilize them? Yeah I get it, varying degrees of risk and all... 

[Bushmaster1313 61]

As of Friday September 9 no permits signed by Middlesex Superior Court. 

[PoppaPops 16]

8 hours ago, MB24 said:

NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

77 pages. By my estimate 1/2 on laws and opinions, 1/2 on actual application experience.

THANK YOU !!!!!

This thread actually started off being very helpful, but it totally derailed along the way.

One shouldn’t have to weed through opinions just to get some actual facts.

 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

3 hours ago, LineItem said:

Congratulations! This gives me hope in Hudson county. So far, lots of doubt and uncertainty from the PD. Great news!

 

16 hours ago, Blairsden said:

Congratulations!

LOL it wasn't me - I'm in Somerset county.  I was just saying someone in Hudson county got theirs in 45 days which is not bad at all.

[Combat Auto 174]

8 hours ago, PoppaPops said:

THANK YOU !!!!!

This thread actually started off being very helpful, but it totally derailed along the way.

One shouldn’t have to weed through opinions just to get some actual facts.

 

You have to keep up with this one...This is a change in NJ from the dogma's which have existed for over 100 years. It is natural that there is a lot of opinion and speculation given what we are experiencing with the permit-process. Granted, if you are just jumping in you have some catching up to do. In July folks started submitting their applications, fast forward, now we the actual permits (some with some without restrictions) are just starting to trickle out, so naturally for those of us who started in July, we are interested in this phase at the moment most.

Overall, this thread has been very useful and consistent with the intention in the thread title (obviously some exceptions like any thread on the internet), and at the moment one of the few venues to collect the pseudo-facts. I say pseudo because it is still very dynamic and each county is spinning their own "scent" on the process (some consistent with the SC-ruling, some not so much).

And as always, you can always ask specific questions, folks here in this thread have been very helpful, if the answer to your question is known I am sure someone will answer it for you.

[Combat Auto 174]

Someday there will be a "Sticky" thread, but given how dynamic the situation is at the moment that is probably a while from now.

[JRT 19]

9 hours ago, Combat Auto said:

The issue posted was the judges are looking for guidance, who better to provide it to them over the NJSTers. We don't need them anymore actually, but if that has to wait till legislation changes and the Judges can't figure it out for themselves now they should pic up the phone.

I think they are looking for advice on how to restrict civilian conceal carry holders to the fullest extent possible, they are not looking for advice on how to streamline the process of issuing permits. 

 

[Combat Auto 174]

29 minutes ago, JRT said:

I think they are looking for advice on how to restrict civilian conceal carry holders to the fullest extent possible, they are not looking for advice on how to streamline the process of issuing permits. 

 

I kinda agree with that, because if they were sincere they would have already made the call.

[Cheflife15 455]

Any updates on somerset county

[exfed2002 4]

12 hours ago, JRT said:

The RPO is a result of HR218, a Federal Law.

 

No it is not.  RPO had its seminal proposals in bills introduced by Frank Graves in the early 70's.  It took the death of a retired police chief in a cemetery to finally get the law passed and signed during the Whitman administration.

LEOSA proposals began to be introduced in the early 90's, finally becoming law in 2004 as P.L. 108-277 and codifed in 18USC926.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

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