NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[JackDaWack 2,895]

12 hours ago, Combat Auto said:

The issue posted was the judges are looking for guidance, who better to provide it to them over the NJSTers. We don't need them anymore actually, but if that has to wait till legislation changes and the Judges can't figure it out for themselves now they should pic up the phone.

Who better? Who better than SCOTUS?

Judges are free to apply all applicable laws that do not interfere with the ruling of Bruen. These Judges aren't idiots who need someone to tell them what to do, they widely do what ever they want until something occurs where they don't have that option anymore and now require "guidance", because they know damn well they can't do what they want to on their own. 

 

Anything less/more is malicious, IMO. 

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

I was doing some reading about official misconduct. It appears that they won't be found guilty if they have reason to believe their conduct was "authorized". I have had no luck in finding anything to say what "authorized" means.

[45Doll 5,873]

27 minutes ago, Mr.Stu said:

I have had no luck in finding anything to say what "authorized" means.

It means they're Democrats.

[leo-польд 35]

3 hours ago, Cheflife15 said:

Any updates on somerset county

Please read comments before asking. I spoke with Somerset court lady who is preparing papers for judge. She said we just started and it is hundreds of applications already pending, it is new job for them to do and nothing is approved yet. I asked on timing and she said about month. She will call when approved she said to pickup, it is in Somerville same place as jury duty just next building to it, second floor.

[Cheflife15 455]

10 minutes ago, leo-польд said:

Please read comments before asking.

There's 78 pages of comments in which 3 are useful. How far back do I need to go for that answer?

[DAHL 58]

3 hours ago, Cheflife15 said:

Any updates on somerset county

I have been following this very closely.  Hillsborough where I live has received several dozen carry permit applications. AFAIK no carry permits have been issued in Somerset County NJ so far. A bit of information that has trickled in says that Somerset will only sign off on a very few permits each month. This could change but the system of putting the decision before the judge is causing a huge backlog of permits to be issued and I am not optimistic that completion can be done in an expeditious manner. My guess is that it may be months before you see your permit come through but I hope that I am wrong about this..

[Combat Auto 174]

12 minutes ago, DAHL said:

I have been following this very closely.  Hillsborough where I live has received several dozen carry permit applications. AFAIK no carry permits have been issued in Somerset County NJ so far. A bit of information that has trickled in says that Somerset will only sign off on a very few permits each month. This could change but the system of putting the decision before the judge is causing a huge backlog of permits to be issued and I am not optimistic that completion can be done in an expeditious manner. My guess is that it may be months before you see your permit come through but I hope that I am wrong about this..

Did you report this to the ANJRPC-Strikforce? They are asking for us to do so so they know where to focus their efforts.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

***DELETED***

[leo-польд 35]

1 hour ago, Cheflife15 said:

There's 78 pages of comments in which 3 are useful. How far back do I need to go for that answer?

There is no other way, maybe search will help? Complaining at this point is useless, I am less than month since application submission and my papers already in court and money order got cashed. She was very nice correcting me on less than two month, about month left she said. Also talked to my friend in FL and he said it took 2-3 weeks there as well in free state to get permit. So, let them realize they need to do it. They need to respond with approved or reject finally.

[Jim Jones 108]

I am at the Evan Nappen CCW seminar right now.  I was very wrong. He said the Ocean County restrictions are very real.  He also said they are actively fighting this and he expects to hear some positive news for us in the next week to two weeks. My friend did not get his permit yet through Ocean County. Per the courts they said he should get it this week.  Will keep you all posted as soon as he receives it.

[marlintag 223]

1 hour ago, Combat Auto said:

Did you report this to the ANJRPC-Strikforce? They are asking for us to do so so they know where to focus their efforts.

Strikeforce seems to be laser focused on addressing the "ocean county car carry" restriction, but no one is addressing the counties like Middlesex and Somerset that have not issued a single permit to anyone! I have emailed Strikeforce already regarding Middlesex county and have received no response nor have I seen any change in this county. What's the point of pouring resources into fighting the "car carry" restriction at this juncture when there are still numerous counties that are refusing to issue a single permit? At least those in Ocean, Passiac, Morris, Hunterdon Counties are getting something. I'm very disappointed with the chosen course of action, can someone else other than me email strikeforce regarding Middlesex, Somerset Etc?

[leo-польд 35]

7 minutes ago, marlintag said:

Strikeforce seems to be laser focused on addressing the "ocean county car carry" restriction, but no one is addressing the counties like Middlesex and Somerset that have not issued a single permit to anyone! I have emailed Strikeforce already regarding Middlesex county and have received no response nor have I seen any change in this county. What's the point of pouring resources into fighting the "car carry" restriction at this juncture when there are still numerous counties that are refusing to issue a single permit? At least those in Ocean, Passiac, Morris, Hunterdon Counties are getting something. I'm very disappointed with the chosen course of action, can someone else other than me email strikeforce regarding Middlesex, Somerset Etc?

 

Agreed, also don't forget that they have to follow laws and they need to respond with the something. They really should ask PD to stop getting new applications if they can't process them for some reason in time. PD should say - stop, judge is overloaded for another 6 month. They also should not cash my money order until they know processing will take very long. My feelings that liberal to the bones judges are waiting for something or protesting this way. Also they don't like to be first, second etc approving these permits in NJ.

[10X 3,296]

9 minutes ago, leo-польд said:

They really should ask PD to stop getting new applications if they can't process them for some reason in time. PD should say - stop, judge is overloaded for another 6 month. 

The danger in that is that they could--just as the did under the old system--claim that virtually no one is applying for a permit, so nothing needs to change.  I'd rather they be buried under permit applications, put the burden on them to explain why they aren't being approved.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

Judges that are refusing to sign permits need to shit or get off the pot. Don't want to do your job? Resign.

Don't like the law and can't bring yourself to carry it out? Resign.

Don't want to adhere to your oath to uphold the Constitution? Resign.

How long does it take for a judge to write their name on a piece of card stock? There is no excuse for a backlog.

[Golf battery 1,223]

Thats exactly it stu.  They’re just playing with us.  Because they can.  And theres no backlog. By the time it comes before them.  All the work is done already.  Yes all they have to do is sign it.  Just playing games with us and stalling to figure out a way for us not to get the ptc. 

[revenger 473]

41:3-1. False swearing, affirmation of declaration; perjury
If any person shall willfully and corruptly swear, affirm or declare falsely, in or by any oath, affirmation, declaration or affidavit, required to be made or taken by any statute of this state, or necessary or proper to be made, taken or used in any court of this state, or for any lawful purpose whatever, such person shall be deemed guilty of perjury and punished accordingly.
 

41:1-2. Persons required to take oath of allegiance
The governor for the time being of this state, and every person who shall be appointed or elected to any office, legislative, executive or judicial, under the authority of this state, or to any office in the militia thereof, and every counselor, solicitor and attorney at law, shall, before he enters upon the execution of his trust, office or duty, take and subscribe the oath of allegiance prescribed by section 41:1-1 of this title.
 

41:1-1. Oath of allegiance; form
Every person who is or shall be required by law to give assurance of fidelity and attachment to the Government of this State shall take the following oath of allegiance:

"I, , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey, and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to the Governments established in the United States and in this State, under the authority of the people So help me God."

 

So how do we charger them with violating their oath?
 

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

***DELETED***

[Variant 16]

On 9/9/2022 at 12:26 PM, 124gr9mm said:

Why would someone see you loading your pistol and putting it in your holster?  You should be easily able to do that discretely.

And even if someone did see you, what law would you be breaking?

If you have a carry permit the fact that you 'print' or someone sees it for a second when you reach for something on a shelf doesn't mean you're breaking the law.

Take a breath.

We're at the beginning of gun owners being able to carry.  The State will try to keep obstacles and confusion in place.  It will be a long process involving lots more litigation.

My understanding is that the permit to carry in NJ is not a concealed carry permit, it will allow us to open carry if we choose, does anyone disagree with that?

If we were only to look at that point, then you would be correct, you wouldn’t be doing anything wrong if someone witnessed you loading or unloading a firearm from your holster to your trunk.

However, in the court order requiring the permit holder to remove his firearm from his person and put it in his trunk before entering a vehicle, it says that the firearm must be concealed. A firearm that someone sees and witnesses is not concealed. In some states it is a crime if someone sees your concealed weapon and you will be liable for legal action. I would assume New Jersey would certainly take that stance as well if they could. 

[PoppaPops 16]

Anyone from Union County have any updates?

[Combat Auto 174]

1 hour ago, marlintag said:

Strikeforce seems to be laser focused on addressing the "ocean county car carry" restriction, but no one is addressing the counties like Middlesex and Somerset that have not issued a single permit to anyone! I have emailed Strikeforce already regarding Middlesex county and have received no response nor have I seen any change in this county. What's the point of pouring resources into fighting the "car carry" restriction at this juncture when there are still numerous counties that are refusing to issue a single permit? At least those in Ocean, Passiac, Morris, Hunterdon Counties are getting something. I'm very disappointed with the chosen course of action, can someone else other than me email strikeforce regarding Middlesex, Somerset Etc?

How do you possibly come to the conclusion that they are focusing only/mostly on Ocean/Monmouth car-carry issue? Just because they didn't respond to you? I got a response but I was assuming I would not, I guess Dan had a moment to spare and did so...Their charter is to cover the entire state, they have an  entire team of Lawyers. They probably are getting a lot of complaints too...Why don't you e-mail them again.

PS: If you are an ANJRPC member you can call Napin's office for free, tell the your situation and ask them what they recommend. David might be the Lawyer who gets back to you (I think that was his name when I spoke to him some months ago), he is a good guy...If you are not an ANJRPC member, well shame, shame, go sign up $40. ;-)

[leo-польд 35]

17 minutes ago, samiam said:

PD cannot do that without explicitly violating the statute, which gives them 60 before automatic application approval. If they try, they will (rightly) find themselves the defendants in numerous lawsuits, in place of the judiciary. There is absolutely zero justification for the judiciary to delay approvals (or in a few cases, rejections). All of the research has been done for them and documented before the applications every reaches their desks. Since the police have the power to deny at their level, the overwhelming majority of permits that reach Superior Court could and should be approved without further delay. Failure to do so is culpable negligence, at the very best. 

We all know this, but NJ not normal state, including judges. They will find any! excuse to delay. Telling people - we have too many applications and no people to work is valid excuse.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

The whole premise is BS.

If the permit is void while travelling in a vehicle, the gun owner is bound by the exemptions in the law. Therefore, merely driving to this fictional grocery store with an unloaded gun in the trunk with the intention of carrying it after arriving is a felony. The grocery store is not an exempt location.

[Variant 16]

I spoke with the gentleman who handles the firearm permits in the North Arlington police department and he said they’ve received 10 applications, they came in very early after the ruling.

I saw a picture of one person’s permit in Bergen County, does anyone know anything else about Bergen County?

[SJ Guns 36]

I don't think there is anything to be done yet about counties that haven't issued.   Law gives PD's 60 days to process the application and get it to the courts.  As far as we know, that is being done.

Courts have an internal directive to process applications within 30 days of receipt.  Not law so I'm not sure how binding that is or what legal complaint there is to make if that date isn't met.  But...it hasn't been 90 days since Bruen yet.  We're a couple of weeks from any kind of action on outstanding permits.

[Variant 16]

Every permit that I’ve seen says at the bottom how the permit must be returned to the state police if employment is terminated.

I assume this has something to do with permits in the past only being issued for certain jobs that require carrying a handgun.  But it doesn’t say that on the permit.

It clearly says that you have to return the permit to the state police if your employment is terminated. I haven’t seen anyone talking about this.

 

[CMJeepster 2,777]

11 minutes ago, Variant said:

Every permit that I’ve seen says at the bottom how the permit must be returned to the state police if employment is terminated.

I assume this has something to do with permits in the past only being issued for certain jobs that require carrying a handgun.  But it doesn’t say that on the permit.

It clearly says that you have to return the permit to the state police if your employment is terminated. I haven’t seen anyone talking about this.

 

Add that to the list of things to be challenged.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

29 minutes ago, SJ Guns said:

I don't think there is anything to be done yet about counties that haven't issued.   Law gives PD's 60 days to process the application and get it to the courts.  As far as we know, that is being done.

Courts have an internal directive to process applications within 30 days of receipt.  Not law so I'm not sure how binding that is or what legal complaint there is to make if that date isn't met.  But...it hasn't been 90 days since Bruen yet.  We're a couple of weeks from any kind of action on outstanding permits.

If the below is true, then it IS NOT being done.  Bold emphsis is mine.  Clearly states that the Judge IS NOT signing off on ANY CCW permits.  This story really needs to be in a linkable formate on CNJFO's website so it can be easily shared.  It's currently only on Facebook and not up on their website.  

The direction and clarification has already been made by the Supreme Court.  The NJ acting AG has already said the Supreme Court decision is the new law.  Who else is the judge waiting to hear from?  Why are the permits not being signed??

ALL CARRY PERMITS "ON HOLD" SAYS MERCER CO. GUN JUDGE!

JUDGE LOOKING FOR "FURTHER DIRECTION & CLARIFICATION"!

Op-Ed by Eric Saperstein for Black Wire Media Thur. Sept. 8, 2022

Mercer County CCW Applicants – It’s time to get a little class! That is … it's time for some quality old-fashioned class action litigation! I completed my CCW application in full, turning it into Ewing Township PD on July 8th, 2022, including qualifications, proof of firearms ownership, references, application, mental health consent, notarized as required, etc. I completed my finger printing on July 15th, 2022. My local detective confirmed that I was complete, and that I fulfilled the requirements as provided by the NJ AG and NJ State Police. He personally hand delivered my package downtown to the Mercer County Courthouse on Tuesday July 19th, 2022.

I’ve waited patiently (ok not patiently, but I waited) for my pending approval, or my sixty days to expire. See per NJ Statute N.J.S. 2C:58 if the government fails to deny me, provide a hearing to resolve any questions, or get my permission to extend the process I would be automatically approved! As I understand the law, September 2nd, 2022, has come and gone so I am default approved!

I’m also not stupid, so I’m not planning on going out carrying and bragging about it without the proper credentials. I reached out to Mercer County Superior Court Judge Robert W. Bingham, II and spoke with his clerks. Today (9/7) I received the status that Judge Bingham is holding off on signing any CCW permits until he receives further direction and clarification.

I inquired as to what clarification and direction he required. SCOTUS was very specific, Judge Thomas was very clear, and the NJ AG has already provided directives. My local PD completed their process and approved my application with signoff from the detective and the chief. I noted in our discussion, that I currently held nonresident CCW permits, have a current FPID, and a current pink card with a local FFL (Pink Card holders are gun counter salespeople). I’ve also previously held an assortment of contractor clearances on military bases, government facilities, etc., as well as a base level security clearance. I’m sure I have no significant factors in my life that would make me prohibited. Now that SCOTUS finally did their job my right to bear arms shall not be infringed; thou shalt issue! Or so I THOUGHT!

She reminded me that I resided in New Jersey … I sighed and acknowledged this unfortunate fact of life. I stated my expectation was that they would catch up on their backlog, get their direction, and receive all needed clarifications and I would get my approval this week. I reminded her that the applicable statute was in place since the sixties, so even with additional direction or clarity we have exceeded the sixty days! Again, thou shalt issue! She requested I call back in seven days.

So, my expectations are set for New Jersey – this is going to require lawyers and money to get to carry my guns cause this state sh!ts in the fan and splatters it all over our rights as a daily routine. (See how I worked that in?)!

Who’s with me? Let’s gather our timelines and details and assemble for a class action lawsuit. Just because we live in New Jersey, does not mean we will accept an infringement on our rights! Its time New Jersey joined the United States!

EDITOR'S NOTE:

Saperstein is a living example of a New Jersey gun owner that's been vetted hundreds of times, and he's tired of being infringed upon by all forms of government. He embodies CNJFO's reasoning of wanting to rid the handgun carry process of Judges "waiting for clarification", aka STALLING the process at every opportunity. Mercer Co. Superior Court still treats gun owners as criminals, as "LESS THAN" entitled to the full weight of the U.S. Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court! Monmouth and Ocean Counties aren't far behind, issuing Court Orders stating you can't be in a vehicle with a loaded gun. A totally ILLEGAL LAW, we guess they want MORE VICTIMS to get robbed and carjacked!

In neighboring Pennsylvania, when you apply for a carry permit the County Sheriff runs a NICS check, which takes a few MINUTES. A "Shall Issue" state, Pennsy issues WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS on which gun you can carry, and has rules disallowing carry in schools and government buildings! 26 states have Constitutional Carry--NO PERMIT NEEDED--and 43 are "Shall Issue". Post Bruen, it's no surprise that NJ needs sued to eliminate infringements, which is why CNJFO initiated a MATCHING FUNDS campaign for the Jay Factor case. Donations can be made HERE: www.cnjfo.com/page-18138

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

***DELETED***

[ATFspymen 15]

Has anyone heard anything in Union County? I cant find any information on anybody getting a permit issued so far.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

2 hours ago, marlintag said:

Strikeforce seems to be laser focused on addressing the "ocean county car carry" restriction, but no one is addressing the counties like Middlesex and Somerset that have not issued a single permit to anyone! I have emailed Strikeforce already regarding Middlesex county and have received no response nor have I seen any change in this county. What's the point of pouring resources into fighting the "car carry" restriction at this juncture when there are still numerous counties that are refusing to issue a single permit? At least those in Ocean, Passiac, Morris, Hunterdon Counties are getting something. I'm very disappointed with the chosen course of action, can someone else other than me email strikeforce regarding Middlesex, Somerset Etc?

Easy. It's because the courts are simply stalling.. the courts have to issue permits at some point.. ANJRPC isn't going to make that happen faster. If they filed a suit, it wouldn't go anywhere for a few months. The state will seek relief from the suit and claim they are "working on it", "these things take time". 

In the end it will be a massive waste of resources. 

For now, I don't think enough time has passed to convince another Judge that such a case would hold enough merrit.