NJ Handgun Carry Permit Application Experience

[Grima Squeakersen 478]

***DELETED***

[SJgunguy9899 15]

1 hour ago, JRT said:

ATLANTIC COUNTY -

I contacted my PD today (Absecon) was told they sent over a batch of apps to the Court on Friday, 9/9 including mine. 

It was day 65 for me - Not bad, all things considered.

Fingers crossed it comes back in a timely.

Gonna be a while for Atlantic county

[JRT 19]

19 minutes ago, SJgunguy9899 said:

Gonna be a while for Atlantic county

I just spoke to a Det. Sgt. from a Cape May County Municipal PD who has processed 10-15 in his town.  He told me, "WHAT HE HEARD" (not gospel) was that for Atl. & CMC, the judges don't want to look at them and approve them - so what they are doing is having a clerk make a pile and once they hit 60 days or 90 or whatever it is, they are going to approve by default, not review and approve.  He speculated that this might somehow give the judge an "out" if something goes down with the permit holder - i.e.  Judge can say  "I didn't review and approve it, It was automatically approved statutorily pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c."

This is what he said - I am not stating this as fact !

[Lostboy 105]

1 minute ago, JRT said:

I just spoke to a Det. Sgt. from a Cape May County Municipal PD who has processed 10-15 in his town.  He told me, "WHAT HE HEARD" (not gospel) was that for Atl. & CMC, the judges don't want to look at them and approve them - so what they are doing is having a clerk make a pile and once they hit 60 days or 90 or whatever it is, they are going to approve by default, not review and approve.  He speculated that this might somehow give the judge an "out" if something goes down with the permit holder - i.e.  Judge can say  "I didn't review and approve it, It was automatically approved statutorily pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c."

This is what he said - I am not stating this as fact !

If someone can prove that it seems like a removable offense. They don't want to do their job? 

[SJgunguy9899 15]

1 minute ago, JRT said:

I just spoke to a Det. Sgt. from a Cape May County Municipal PD who has processed 10-15 in his town.  He told me, "WHAT HE HEARD" (not gospel) was that for Atl. & CMC, the judges don't want to look at them and approve them - so what they are doing is having a clerk make a pile and once they hit 60 days or 90 or whatever it is, they are going to approve by default, not review and approve.  He speculated that this might somehow give the judge an "out" if something goes down with the permit holder - i.e.  Judge can say  "I didn't review and approve it, It was automatically approved statutorily pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c."

This is what he said - I am not stating this as fact !

Interesting.. guess that would mean there won’t be any restrictions 

[Variant 16]

Just now, SJgunguy9899 said:

Interesting.. guess that would mean there won’t be any restrictions 

Oh no, once they’re approved by default they’ll still put all the restrictions they want on it lol

[SJgunguy9899 15]

How long do the courts have? I believe the PDs have 60 days and the court 30?

[Kdin1 11]

6 minutes ago, SJgunguy9899 said:

Interesting.. guess that would mean there won’t be any restrictions 

Looks like ANJRPC-Strikforce needs to be informed 

[ToddD 59]

Just had my hearing in Burlington County. 
 

Judge confirmed I’m the first in our county. Just asked to confirm make and model. Read restricted places to me. 

Carry IS NOT restricted in our vehicles.

Said he’s signing today and putting in the mail and that I should have physical permit by the end of the week  but that I am approved. 

[GlockityGlockGlock 21]

3 minutes ago, ToddD said:

Just had my hearing in Burlington County. 
 

Judge confirmed I’m the first in our county. Just asked to confirm make and model. Read restricted places to me. 

Carry IS NOT restricted in our vehicles.

Said he’s signing today and putting in the mail and that I should have physical permit by the end of the week  but that I am approved. 

Congrats

[Variant 16]

I am going to start the process for applying now. I just called my local police department to ask for a case number to use to scheduling the fingerprinting, he says that the case number is given out after I submit the full application. Isn’t that reversed? 

[CapGuns&SnapsKid 33]

Just now, Variant said:

I am going to start the process for applying now. I just called my local police department to ask for a case number to use to scheduling the fingerprinting, he says that the case number is given out after I submit the full application. Isn’t that reversed? 

every dept has their own way of accepting applications. mine told me to put "NA" for confirmation case # when I went down there then dropped off my package with the identgo receipt. 

[g17owner 137]

11 minutes ago, Variant said:

I am going to start the process for applying now. I just called my local police department to ask for a case number to use to scheduling the fingerprinting, he says that the case number is given out after I submit the full application. Isn’t that reversed? 

• Get your full application together except for the fingerprints.
• Make appt to drop off application at PD
• Get case number from PD at time of dropoff
• Schedule fingerprints using case number

[marlintag 223]

48 minutes ago, ToddD said:

Just had my hearing in Burlington County. 
 

Judge confirmed I’m the first in our county. Just asked to confirm make and model. Read restricted places to me. 

Carry IS NOT restricted in our vehicles.

Said he’s signing today and putting in the mail and that I should have physical permit by the end of the week  but that I am approved. 

Congrats!

[ATFspymen 15]

8 hours ago, MJFNJ said:

ATFspyman here is a quote dated a week ago from Facebook page

"Angel M. Dios

Union county just started sending out letters this week as per the judges request. If yours was prior to his request to do so or pending, you may still get one. I reached out for a status to my friend who is the assistant criminal

División manager in Union this is the info he got from the investigator working for the judge isenhour. He said permits should prob start getting issued in a week or two."

another quote with good info

"Union Criminal Division

Criminal Division Main Number

908-787-1650, ext. 21250

Robert Eppenstein, Criminal Division Manager

908-787-1650, ext. 21152

Michael Jan, Asst. Criminal Division Manager

908-787-1650, ext. 21038

Roberto Toca, Asst. Criminal Division Manager/Pretrial Service

908-787-1650, ext. 21037  

 Annalisa is the person to contact"

Hope this helps. You might want to hook up with someone who has access to Facebook so you can read the all the posts.

Mike

 

Do we need to appear before the judge? Also has anyone gotten a permit yet or are they going out this week? Are we getting any restrictions for our permits from the judge in Union County?

[Lostboy 105]

54 minutes ago, Variant said:

I am going to start the process for applying now. I just called my local police department to ask for a case number to use to scheduling the fingerprinting, he says that the case number is given out after I submit the full application. Isn’t that reversed? 

I did my prints first but my PD is very organized and noted they received them when I dropped off my paperwork. I followed the steps that were on Recoils website:

 

Fingerprinting – All applicants must be fingerprinted for initial and renewal applications. Applicants can visit www.IDENTOGO.com to schedule an appointment. When scheduling, the applicant must provide the investigating agencies ORI# (contact your local PD for a number), a fingerprint service code (2F164B), and a contributors case number (Use the applicants last name, month, day, and year of application. Example: John Doe applied on Jan 8, 2022. Contributor Case Number: Doe010822.) Fingerprint results must be received within ninety (90) days of application.

[Bushmaster1313 61]

2 hours ago, JRT said:

I just spoke to a Det. Sgt. from a Cape May County Municipal PD who has processed 10-15 in his town.  He told me, "WHAT HE HEARD" (not gospel) was that for Atl. & CMC, the judges don't want to look at them and approve them - so what they are doing is having a clerk make a pile and once they hit 60 days or 90 or whatever it is, they are going to approve by default, not review and approve.  He speculated that this might somehow give the judge an "out" if something goes down with the permit holder - i.e.  Judge can say  "I didn't review and approve it, It was automatically approved statutorily pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c."

This is what he said - I am not stating this as fact !

If true, this reminds me of the bad old days in my town when it took 6 months of showing up to inquire at the police station before the Local Police Chief would sign a permit to purchase a handgun. 

Frankly, I have no idea what to do if a county judge decides to just sit and do nothing after receipt of a police department approved application.

In other situations a person can go to the next higher level and bring an action in Mandamus to force the judge’s hand.  Any such action should be taken with great care and planning and with the advice of an attorney experienced in such matters.

As to Middlesex County — So far all we hear is crickets.

 

[marlintag 223]

2 minutes ago, Bushmaster1313 said:

if true, this reminds me of the bad old days in my town when it took 6 months to get the Local Police Chief to sign a permit to purchase a handgun. 

Frankly, I have no idea what to do if a county judge decides to just sit and do nothing after receipt of a police department approved application.

In other situations a person can go to the next higher level and bring an action in Mandamus to force the judge’s hand.  Any such action should be taken with great care and planning and with the advice of an attorney experienced in such matters.

 

That was my point in my previous posts regarding this very issue. The courts can sit on PD approved applications for months, years who knows! The whole "car carry" restriction based on what I know is more isolated to a few instances whereas in our case it's a widespread issue. Please notify strikeforce if you haven't already done so.

[Lostboy 105]

2 minutes ago, marlintag said:

That was my point in my previous posts regarding this very issue. The courts can sit on PD approved applications for months, years who knows! The whole "car carry" restriction based on what I know is more isolated to a few instances whereas in our case it's a widespread issue. Please notify strikeforce if you haven't already done so.

I signed up for Law Shield and Anjrpc today just for this reason. I was going to anyway, but seeing as though there seem to be bizarre stories coming out, I'd rather have someone to call in the even that my application is affected. 

[Bushmaster1313 61]

Here is a quote from a case about mandamus in New Jersey:

” A writ of mandamus is an appropriate remedy "(1) to compel specific action when the duty is ministerial and wholly free from doubt, and (2) to compel the exercise of discretion, but not in a specific manner." Vas v. Roberts, 418 N.J. Super. 509, 522 (App. Div. 2011) (quoting Loigman v. Twp. Comm. of Middletown, 297 N.J. Super. 287, 299 (App. Div. 1997)).“

In the case of carry permits, I would say that if there is no doubt, the Judge could be compelled to approve the permit, and if there is doubt the judge could be compelled to hold a hearing and issue a decision within 14 days thereafter. 
 

Note: Getting mandamus against a judge can take a very long time. 

[Variant 16]

But it would only have to be done once for the other judges to see that it can happen and not want it to happen to them.

[Bushmaster1313 61]

4 minutes ago, Variant said:

But it would only have to be done once for the other judges to see that I can happen and not want it to happen to them.

Yes

And to avoid setting bad precedent —Whoever does it first had  better do it right the first time. 

[marlintag 223]

14 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

I signed up for Law Shield and Anjrpc today just for this reason. I was going to anyway, but seeing as though there seem to be bizarre stories coming out, I'd rather have someone to call in the even that my application is affected. 

That's good, we need to get the info out there regarding the hold up in the courts. 

[nooch450 41]

As far as I know the automatic approval of 60 days only applies to the police station or state police barracks. I don't think there is an automatic approval in the court system. There is a 30 day court procedural time frame. But without consequences or automatic approval what good is it?

[10X 3,296]

2 hours ago, JRT said:

He speculated that this might somehow give the judge an "out" if something goes down with the permit holder - i.e.  Judge can say  "I didn't review and approve it, It was automatically approved statutorily pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c."

If a judge wants to take the coward's way out and not sign, it's not the worst result we could have.  As long as the permit gets issued.

The judge can't both hide behind the 'I didn't review it' excuse and also add add a bunch of restrictions to the permit.   Can't require a hearing, either. 

[Kadayo 39]

18 hours ago, Kadayo said:

Reloaderz let’s you shoot the qualifier twice at that price. You can either do two guns or a second chance if you failed it the first time. They also let you put up to four firearms on the qualifying sheet. You only need to qualify with each type of firearm once. IE hammer fired postols and striker fired pistols. I qualified with my SR1911 and Glock 26 but my permit has 4 pistols on it. Good price if you ask me. GFH would charge $300 for 4 pistols for non members and you would have to shoot the course 4 times. 

One other thing I forgot to mention is that Reloaderz considers you holster certified after taking the CCW qualifier with them. Meaning you do not have to take firearms fundamentals ($253.23) and holster draw ($133.27) in order to draw from the holster while using the range. That was huge for me as a member.

[marlintag 223]

1 minute ago, nooch450 said:

As far as I know the automatic approval of 60 days only applies to the police station or state police barracks. I don't think there is an automatic approval in the court system. There is a 30 day court procedural time frame. But without consequences or automatic approval what good is it?

That's the million dollar question. The PD has 60 days and the court has 30 per directive 6-19. What happens after the 30 days has passed? We cannot carry until the physical card is in our hands.

23 minutes ago, Lostboy said:

I signed up for Law Shield and Anjrpc today just for this reason. I was going to anyway, but seeing as though there seem to be bizarre stories coming out, I'd rather have someone to call in the even that my application is affected. 

I will likely be doing the same around the 30 day mark. I was going to do law shield the same day i get my permit. 

[nooch450 41]

Just now, 10X said:

If a judge wants to take the coward's way out and not sign, it's not the worst result we could have.  As long as the permit gets issued.

The judge can't both hide behind the 'I didn't review it' excuse and also add add a bunch of restrictions to the permit.   Can't require a hearing, either. 

How can you get the permit without the judges signature? I do not believe there is any automatic approval in the court system. If they are refusing to review we are simply on hold.

[RadioGunner 218]

2 hours ago, JRT said:

I just spoke to a Det. Sgt. from a Cape May County Municipal PD who has processed 10-15 in his town.  He told me, "WHAT HE HEARD" (not gospel) was that for Atl. & CMC, the judges don't want to look at them and approve them - so what they are doing is having a clerk make a pile and once they hit 60 days or 90 or whatever it is, they are going to approve by default, not review and approve.  He speculated that this might somehow give the judge an "out" if something goes down with the permit holder - i.e.  Judge can say  "I didn't review and approve it, It was automatically approved statutorily pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4c."

This is what he said - I am not stating this as fact !

I wish Sussex would do that. I am past 60 days and no permit in sight. Just give it to me already 

[nooch450 41]

Timelines for issuance are useless without consequences for those who don't follow them. 

 

Why should they care? New Jersey never followed their timelines before. Just look at the history of FID and P2Ps...